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Old 10th September 2007, 09:12   #31
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Amey, you have obtained better FE and a smoother engine. You are not quoting numbers for the FE. Good. That is what starts dis-agreements. 2km/ltr with a Santro. Think about it. And with no long-term adverse effects.?
Where did you get the idea it is a 'crime' to fit an after-market air filter?!! Something I said? Please READ what I've written.
I've specifically mentioned I agree with all that 1self said. But there remained a few points worth thinking about. Give them an honest thought and decide for yourself.
As for excess cash etc. I can see it would 'upset' some. Who are these 'some'? I leave it to each reader to figure out, but please don't tell me there was NEED to spend that money.
Sure, go and enjoy all the USPs of each after-market fitment but please don't suggest there is no 'compromise' somewhere, specially when people claim a better breathing engine will give better FE AND better power. It can be one of the two, and in each case, I'd like to be quite sure of any 'long-term' effects. And 'long-term' effects, BTW, happens to be the opening theme of this thread, as started by Vishesh.
It is quite common for car makers in many countries to 'endorse' or 'approve' of certain after-market accessories, IF they do not offer the same as optional extras. That is the way it should be.
In any case, To Each His Own!

Last edited by anupmathur : 10th September 2007 at 09:14.
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Old 10th September 2007, 09:25   #32
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Sorry, forgot to ask this earlier. Even if we do put the third party air filter, what about the 3 yr Chevy warranty, any engine modifications will make it void?
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Old 10th September 2007, 10:17   #33
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Amey, you have obtained better FE and a smoother engine. You are not quoting numbers for the FE. Good. That is what starts dis-agreements. 2km/ltr with a Santro. Think about it. And with no long-term adverse effects.?
Well if you are hell bent on knowing the numbers, so be it. I had done detail analysis when i had got the filter 1.5 years back,dont remember exact figures but i can assure that i got a boost of ~ 1kmpl after the filter fitment.
Mind you, the small boost i got after the filter was fitted, called for some spirited driving and STILL there was a 1 Kmpl increase.
I didnt get you on that 2kmpl and santro thing
As for adverse effects, i have been using the filter over 1.5 yrs and i have had no problems whatsoever.

Quote:
Where did you get the idea it is a 'crime' to fit an after-market air filter?!! Something I said? Please READ what I've written.
Had you read my post carefully, you wouldnt have said that. I never said that YOU said so, your comments surely did give out a similar message.

Quote:
As for excess cash etc. I can see it would 'upset' some. Who are these 'some'? I leave it to each reader to figure out, but please don't tell me there was NEED to spend that money.
Need is a relative term my dear

Quote:
Sure, go and enjoy all the USPs of each after-market fitment but please don't suggest there is no 'compromise' somewhere, specially when people claim a better breathing engine will give better FE AND better power.
Well both CAN be achieved BUT FE is more or less Dependant on the driving pattern
If the engine breathes freely because of the filter, doesn't it mean that one of the minor bottlenecks of restricted air suction is slightly reduced ? If that happens, wouldn't the engine perform a bit efficiently ? Resulting in better Fuel Efficiency and longer engine life, IF driven with care ?
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Old 10th September 2007, 10:31   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
Well both CAN be achieved BUT FE is more or less Dependant on the driving pattern
If the engine breathes freely because of the filter, doesn't it mean that one of the minor bottlenecks of restricted air suction is slightly reduced ? If that happens, wouldn't the engine perform a bit efficiently ? Resulting in better Fuel Efficiency and longer engine life, IF driven with care ?
Better FE and increased POWER can not both be achieved by replacing just an airfilter. That is what my contention is.
What are your views on this?
For the rest, enough has been said.
"Need is a relative term my dear" is EXACTLY what the import of my words is. Which is why I abstained from providing any further clarification on that matter. I do not wish to get personal.
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Old 10th September 2007, 10:41   #35
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Anup, it is mighty clear that you hate any mods being done on your car. And we understand your POV. Though, you complaining about the zeal of some to modify their cars on every thread is getting a bit absurd now (and irritating). Your endless harping about your like (or lack of it) is neither going to make someone convince you to mod your own car or prevent someone from modding theirs.

And don't think that I have attitude or something, it is just that I have realized this debate will be endless and pointless. With neither wanting to give up on their way of thinking. So, I would like to refrain from such petty arguments. And regarding cutting corners, I can tell you statements that will shock you out of your living daylights what our manufacturers do to save costs. IIRC, K&N filters are also sold by Maruti dealers as beneficial accessories too. So MAYBE (?) they MIGHT have benefits?

I know for a fact that a stock air filter on my car chokes my engine down. And I really don't find the need to prove that to anyone. Because those who want to will anyways get themselves a filter and those who don't will just talk about being the good citizen and not harm the environment or burn more fuel. I find some of these excuses to be a lame way on convincing yourself not to mod. You either do it or you don't. You don't have to give reasons as to why you chose what you did.

Talking about being good citizens, I guess you are free to take down the registration numbers of our cars and send them to your local RTO. Being a good citizen does not only mean telling others not to mod their cars but also involves a lot many more things like taking up issues of breaking the law by complaining/notifying to the authorities, helping the poor & the needy, voting for the right leaders, paying your taxes etc too.
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Old 10th September 2007, 11:08   #36
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@ Anupmathur

From what it looks like - you are in disagreement with the whole concept of "modifying" - am I right ?? Well I would just like to say this - everybody is free to have an independant opinion on this or any other matter. It is nice to know that you stick with OE stuff for your car & whole heartedly disagree with any changes vis-a-vis stock car specs.

Basically you are playing "Super Safe" - nothing wrong with that BUT do not impose your thinking on others..let them do their "modifying" & be happy. One thing you may agree with though is that most of the Indian Manufactured Cars come shod with miserable tyres, of course if you are driving on good roads @ 60kmph you may be fine but trust me - better & wider tyres go a long way in ensuring safety PROVIDED one goes for the correct upsize..

So I guess it is each to his own !!! As for people having excess money to spend .. well I might think a PLASMA TV is a waste where as you may find YOKOHAMAS a waste....get the drift ???

Cheers - have a pleasant day

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 10th September 2007 at 11:09.
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Old 10th September 2007, 11:39   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 View Post
Sorry, forgot to ask this earlier. Even if we do put the third party air filter, what about the 3 yr Chevy warranty, any engine modifications will make it void?
Yes you can get it and sitl have your warranty intact, just ask them i got a conical for my Optra when she was less then a year old, i have 4 years warranty, they told me you can put a KnN Air Filter but dont put a KnN Oil filter it causes problems.
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Old 10th September 2007, 12:28   #38
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Gentlemen, I am not against mods - that is what you seem to draw from the fact of asking for sound technical data on an accessory. The thread title asked about whether there might be adverse effects in the long run. My answers are quite pertinent. We are NOT debating whether modding is good or bad. The question is whether an airfilter will cause changes and if so, what.
The rest of the arguments have been due to callous statements like FE and POWER both improving with fitment of an after-market air filter. Or FE going up by 2 kms/ltr!! and yet there is no long-term adverse effect.
As I said earlier, please confirm the effect of a modification towards your warranty. AND I mentioned that car makers in many cases endorse or approve of certain accessories, and that's OK.
Automobile Engineering is a vast subject, and little knowledge could well be dangerous. I think it fair to warn a prospective user to please proceed with caution.
I have NEVER claimed in-depth knowledge about ANY of these accessories, but I do find some experts on the subject who might be hard put to provide credentials to justify their claims - other than saying I've used it for the last one and a half years, or for the last 25000 kms! Might I ask what will happen at the end of 5 years, or 85000 kms? Each owner has to decide for himself what 'long-term' means to him.
I do NOT whole heartedly disagree with modifications - I merely ask the maker which ones are 'approved', or recommended. Then, if I can afford them, I do 'indulge' myself sometimes.
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:28   #39
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How strange! Just found this in a newly put up article on this forum. Tips on buying a used/pre-owned car. This has been written by a Moderator of this very forum.

Never buy a modified car: You can be certain a modified car was driven “enthusiastically” by its previous owner and there can be uncertainty about the quality of the modifications. Walk away from any highly modified car.

And everyone thought it was ME that was, for reasons best known to themselves, that was against modifications!!
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:41   #40
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And drunk_monkey has this to say on the same thread:


damn! i wish i had read this before i bought my city...
it was done up... body kits, air filter, race headers... after buying it i've faced so many problems wit the car its not even funny!!

And esteem_lover's advice to him:

It is always better to avoid cars that are done up. You might get acrried away by the accessories , modifications etc & end up with a lemon. Mostly the fully loaded, fully modded cars are sold in the open market because neither the owner nor his friends have any use for it, it has gone through everything that it has to be dumped. Better to get a car thats original & has a service record to back that.

Last edited by anupmathur : 10th September 2007 at 13:45.
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:57   #41
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its actually better not to buy a modded car - if you dont know who modded it (read: tuner) or how it has been used by the owner (read; thrashed or not). it will be better off if one buys a stock car and mod it. that is what the moderator meant.
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Old 10th September 2007, 14:24   #42
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Thanks.
Modders don't quite trust other modders, even though they are all enthusiasts!
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Old 10th September 2007, 15:15   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Thanks.
Modders don't quite trust other modders, even though they are all enthusiasts!
Thing is there are only a handful of qualified tuners in the country and millions of self proclaimed tuners. As long as a car is from a reputed tuner buying it is hardly an issue. In Bangalore cars done up by some tuners get grabbed within an instant. Like Farhan said "Never trust your lawyer, doctor & your tuner" .
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Old 10th September 2007, 18:06   #44
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this is the simplest and accurate test i use in pin pointing the restriction point in inlet side. all u need to have is a good quality vacuum guage with 4to 6 inch dial willingness to accept the truth .
take the car to a lonely steeply inclined road.where u can really push it to near red line in third gear .
then while pushing that hard get the vacuum readings starting direction is the way air passes ..intake snorkel of air filter box and follow the air <from outside to the engine
1>in the air filter before the filter element but after the snorkel
2>after the air filter element but in the filter box only
3>at the starting of the resonator
4>at the end of the resonator
5>after the resonator but before the throttle plate<or throttle body>
6> immediately after the throttle body
7>in the planum chamber
8>at the begining of the runners <inlet pipes>
9>at the end of the runners
10>at the inlet port
---please note last three readings will fluctuate very rapidly and u need a really r&d quality guage which will show u the max vacuum reading only<that too without overshooting! >
all other readings <from 1 to 7> will give u the restrictive location <bottleneck>
and it will also tell u weather the air filter is restrictive or not stock or aftermarket
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Old 10th September 2007, 18:31   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Anup, it is mighty clear that you hate any mods being done on your car.
Hey guys, before flaming on anup, see that he has clearly mentioned that performance mods make sense only if you are into performance driving.

I fully agree. to an average Joe like me or him or probably shuvc (to which he was responding), i don't see why a performance mod would appeal.

I guess a POV like his helps us from flowing into the strong currents of performance mods, seeing other.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 10th September 2007 at 18:34.
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