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Old 30th October 2007, 22:05   #76
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Khaadu, Viper, Street - When i took the car for a run, that time the car was not complete it was running on smalller wheels and the ECU from RD had not arrived, the MAPs of the car was stock & the work on the car was not finished.

Khaadu i did mention that the low end is invisible in my 1st post on this thread and the car doesnot move at lower RPM's and the idling is rough, the car doesnot start on first crank as well but the cam did kick post 4000RPM and the car started to fly, maybe there is a problem now, but when i drove it the car did get the kick post 4000RPM, every time on red lining in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

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Old 30th October 2007, 22:14   #77
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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Khaadu, Viper, Street - When i took the car for a run, that time the car was not complete it was running on smalller wheels and the ECU from RD had not arrived, the MAPs of the car was stock & the work on the car was not finished.

Khaadu i did mention that the low end is invisible in my 1st post on this thread and the car doesnot move at lower RPM's and the idling is rough, the car doesnot start on first crank as well but the cam did kick post 4000RPM and the car started to fly, maybe there is a problem now, but when i drove it the car did get the kick post 4000RPM, every time on red lining in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
hey, I clearly remember what you said .... maybe you shud TD it once again and see if it still moves the way it did then , though it should have been quicker after the rest of the mods .

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Old 31st October 2007, 11:25   #78
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Viper @ And thats how I heard what I heard though Im still not sure that it could be as bad as its being made to be . And when you drove it , what was your take ??
Hey,

The car was idling smooth but found some sound coming from the tappet cover, was not idling like a car fitted with a 285 Cam. I first drove with the ECU in stock mode(or was it street mode) and redlined in 1st & 2nd gear. Found the car to be extremely sluggish(like a stock swift) with no punch whatsoever all the way till 7000 RPM. Then put the ECU in performance mode and there was a very miniscule power diff, car was peppier but no punch whatsoever. I have a strong feeling that the timing(cam timing) is not correct and is retarded which could be a reason for the lack in performance.

In the event this was the condition in which the car was delivered then all I can say is good luck to Kumar Ranjan.

@Kumar - Pl get your car thoroughly checked out. You dont need a dyno to tell you that the car is sluggish at present.


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Old 31st October 2007, 11:46   #79
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It's sad man,what can be the problem of being sluggish??
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:04   #80
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Dont they test the car before delivery? There could be many reason for car being sluggish. the best bet would be to take the car back to the Tuner who has done the job on this swift & sort out the issue.
This car deserves better throttle response with the kind of Mods done to it.
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:06   #81
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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Dont they test the car before delivery? There could be many reason for car being sluggish. the best bet would be to take the car back to the Tuner who has done the job on this swift & sort out the issue.
This car deserves better throttle response with the kind of Mods done to it.
Jitu, I had a word with Ranjan on all the mods and he is clear of what his car is giving out and what it actually should. You have been into more of DIY when it comes to mods. It would be great if you could test the car out and pin point the problem? I haven't had much experience on driving modded cars and neither have I driven a stock swift as much as Ranjan's swift to comment on its performance. Let me know.
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:25   #82
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Jitu, I had a word with Ranjan on all the mods and he is clear of what his car is giving out and what it actually should. You have been into more of DIY when it comes to mods. It would be great if you could test the car out and pin point the problem? I haven't had much experience on driving modded cars and neither have I driven a stock swift as much as Ranjan's swift to comment on its performance. Let me know.
Will be glad to help but only on saturday & sunday, my hectic work schedule does not give me enough time on week days to test around.
Will also need access to Racedynamics ECU software along with other detailed work carried out on engine.

The thing is what i have observed is people have standard list when it comes to mods, 285 Cam, Bigger T.B, Porting/polishing etc,etc.

It doesn't work that way.
One needs to understand the airflow basics before suggesting any mods & how the engine will respond.
Engine producing good grunt at lower rpm is mainly for cars to toss around city traffic where torque is more important at lower rpm but as when RPM increases the torque curve starts falling.

No wonder this type of engines have long runners at intake manifold to help max air flow at lower rpm. but this kind of manifold is not good for higher rpm. when you increase size of throttle body you are actually hurting low end performance cause you loose velocity which helps cylinder fill air at lower rpm, no doubt it will be good for higher rpm if engine combination permits cause you are increasing the volume.

And when you add CAM like 285 Spec to this type of engine the airflow which is already reduced due bigger T.B suffers more due to cam overlap at lower rpm the air entering combustion chamber further reduces there by giving sluggish performance at lower rpm. & when CAM kicks in at around 4-4.5K RPM the long runner intake manifold is a restriction to air flow. Using adjustable CAM gears you only play around with the powerband & with single CAM there is not much much option you either advance it for better low rpm or retard for better higher RPM, CAM gear adjustment will not give same results on different engines as all engines are not same, CAM settings which is good for one will not be good for other.

According to me the mods should be carried out depending upon the engine combination, bore/stroke, R/S ratio, cyl head design & intake manifold & T.B combination.
If you do it right then minimum modifcation will give maximum results.

Jitu
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:37   #83
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Great advice there Jitu. You'll hear from us soon. Will call you to discuss this further.
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Old 31st October 2007, 19:43   #84
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Hope the tuner finds the fault and rectifies it so that Ranjan can enjoy his car to the max.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 23:29   #85
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Why, even the cold air intake can be a major problem. The cold air intake which in many a case becomes a hot air intake as the piping is done wrong or the inlet is placed somewhere, from where it can only get hot air. This instead of enhancing performance actually restricts it.....!!
With an adjustable cam gear, one can get ones 285 cam to kick in at as low as 2.5-3.0. That should suffice for lower end performance.
If you want to go any higher say a 295-300 spec (wild cam) then be prepared for wild idling and one will probably need to slip the clutch to drive in city (Mumbai, at least) traffic conditions

Last edited by V-16 : 3rd November 2007 at 23:33.
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Old 4th November 2007, 01:21   #86
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Could be a problem with ECU. Might be a good idea to go back to stock ECU and see if there is an improvement in performance (as compared to stock).
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Old 4th November 2007, 01:46   #87
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Who is the tuner?

twentytuners
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Old 4th November 2007, 02:24   #88
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i CAI leads to a slightly slow responce . just due to the length of the pipe. but it gains in the highre revs
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Old 5th November 2007, 11:11   #89
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Who is the tuner?

I think it's someone called Autotech from Mumbai.
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Old 5th November 2007, 11:47   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post

The thing is what i have observed is people have standard list when it comes to mods, 285 Cam, Bigger T.B, Porting/polishing etc,etc.

It doesn't work that way.
One needs to understand the airflow basics before suggesting any mods & how the engine will respond.
Engine producing good grunt at lower rpm is mainly for cars to toss around city traffic where torque is more important at lower rpm but as when RPM increases the torque curve starts falling.

No wonder this type of engines have long runners at intake manifold to help max air flow at lower rpm. but this kind of manifold is not good for higher rpm. when you increase size of throttle body you are actually hurting low end performance cause you loose velocity which helps cylinder fill air at lower rpm, no doubt it will be good for higher rpm if engine combination permits cause you are increasing the volume.
exactly !!
this what I have also been saying when people go for large TB's
nobody thinks of the air flow, sometimes its better to have a narrower TB to mantain velocity of the air intake.. similar with port and polish - extreme P&P can even slow down the velocity of the intake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
And when you add CAM like 285 Spec to this type of engine the airflow which is already reduced due bigger T.B suffers more due to cam overlap at lower rpm the air entering combustion chamber further reduces there by giving sluggish performance at lower rpm. & when CAM kicks in at around 4-4.5K RPM the long runner intake manifold is a restriction to air flow.
ya ..agreed ,length should be taken into consideration for best results , but it will not also cause so much of a damage to bring the engine down to its knees... performance may be slightly disabled due to incompatible runners but not so damaging as what is happening here ?
seems we have a bigger problem.

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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Using adjustable CAM gears you only play around with the powerband & with single CAM there is not much much option you either advance it for better low rpm or retard for better higher RPM, CAM gear adjustment will not give same results on different engines as all engines are not same, CAM settings which is good for one will not be good for other.
ya..sohc guys dont have option to adjust intake and exhaust separately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
According to me the mods should be carried out depending upon the engine combination, bore/stroke, R/S ratio, cyl head design & intake manifold & T.B combination.
If you do it right then minimum modifcation will give maximum results.
Jitu
we can add extractors to that list, they can negate the effect of cam and well balanced intake, incorrect dia,bend and lenght of tube and collectors can simply waste all the efforts, exhuast should be designed according to the points mentioned in the list.
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