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Old 27th October 2007, 12:05   #76
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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Rip people out? Are you really sure about this statement? It's a pretty serious one!
Took the words right out of my mouth, old man.

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All the more reason to state those facts properly. I'm hoping you know all of those.
Absolutely. If we must have the facts, lets have 'em all.
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Old 27th October 2007, 12:41   #77
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Went through the entire thread about the unfortunate incidents and since this is a public forum and everyone here knows who the concerned people are and since one of them has brought it out here would it not be wise for the other party to put in his opinion out too IMO?

For all of us here who dont know u guys personally we would never find out what went wrong so that we donot repeat the 'mechanical mistakes' which happened on rahuls car
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Old 27th October 2007, 14:06   #78
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Originally Posted by west View Post
Tuner is not an engineer who test hundreds of hrs to give a reliable product to his customer. He shows off by saying some technical terms and processes and always want to be in lime light of his customers.Seriously think how much design knowledge he has before putting unreliable junk in your car. How many chief engineers work in a car factory to make every thing work...

Next time dont fall for cheap gimmiks that tuner is god,, hes no one but a poor guy who wants to make a quick buck..
Opinions are like...
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Old 27th October 2007, 18:16   #79
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Let me say this. I don't know the tuner and I don't know Rahul (except that he had organized couple of B'lore meets). I feel this thread is not about dark side of modifications or anything like that. After reading the posts I feel that Rahul would not have gone ahead with the modifications if the tuner would have been a stranger. So where is the question of going over-board. It's simple. Rahul trusted someone so much and he now feel cheated when things didn't went as expected. In my opinion the only lesson is don't trust anyone so much that you can hurt yourself. For the tuner I feel the lesson is don't show dreams that may go out of hand. IMHO if the tuner would have warned Rahul about what can go wrong, then perhaps he would have been better prepared for the dark side of modifications. Educating your client is important !!!

Although most of us don't know other side of the story yet, but I am some what sure that the undue faith is the issue and nothing else. And it happens in most of the relationships
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Old 27th October 2007, 21:33   #80
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...harging-5.html (Which is better for daily street use: Engine Swaps or Turbocharging?)

I would suggest the late comers read the above mentioned thread too.
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Old 29th October 2007, 17:22   #81
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Personally, I never go away from a service station without verifying that every job on the card has been completed to my satisfaction. I think, being a car lover, that is the least I owe my car.

Anyway, do continue. This is a real eye-opener. Why don't you give us the names of your 'friends', tuner, importer, and present tuner?
Isn't that difficult Viper??? Sometimes Services do need you to check all the torques on the suspension setup.. How do you check that..

Reference :- maruti service manual for '99 carb zen.. scheduled maintanence.

I'm asking because even I want to know whether as per the job card thay have tightened all the suspension bolts... And I find it difficult to check that without a torque wrench and a ramp " to my satisfaction".
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Old 29th October 2007, 19:42   #82
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Ask them to hoist the car and torque them in front of you. If you're anal like me.
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Old 29th October 2007, 21:32   #83
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After reading all the mentioned posts, I can one thing for sure is if someone whom I trusted to tune my car and things are not going right. To top it up, If I get a reply from my tuner saying to take my car elsewhere and bla bla. Certainly I will take care of his knee caps. That is unacceptable behaviour by all means. The tuner should not venture into something if he can not handle or know the basic stuff about TC and secondly should understand the frustation of the client and try to resolve it rather then just running away from it. Even in UK the so called tuners do manage to mess up things, it just goes to show how complex TC is. TC should not be considered as just changing headers, adding turbo, AFM, ECU, clutch, intercoler, uprated fuel pump, custom map, injecters and this is just for a standard engine. There are so many things involved before you could even think of a TC. I thought of TC once for my M52 engine which can take up to 7psi without any internal mods and even with that I had to do a lot to get the setup running right . I just dropped the idea and now I am considering supercharger, which is less expensive setup and more reliable.

Why no one in India considers superchargers!! Pls enlighten me.. Before any one comments on pro and conson TC/SC wich I am truely aware off.
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Old 30th October 2007, 21:42   #84
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Amen. We havent heard the other side, and though I am privy to some of the stuff there I will not comment unless the gentleman concerned wishes to. And a true gentleman he is.
I have said this before and will say it again. I don't mind the tuner coming up with his side of the story. I don't expect you all to believe me either because I was as blinded by trust too.

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There could have been a better way of putting your points across without implicitly denigerating the person who you refuse to name but everyone can figure out. A major issue that can be seen is that the thin line between friendship and professional relationships was ruptured big time.
Sorry Ajit, but putting across things in a better way has always been my problem and the moderation team is quite aware of this fact already IMO.

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While the other side of the story has yet to be told, like Steeroid, i am aware there are some other facts... both behavioural and financial.
I am surprised by the theories doing the round so that some people can save their bu!!s and pass on the blame game. Behavioural? I am quite amazed at this statement. I have been nothing but been patient throughtout this 9 month period hoping things would come out on the brighter side but it only kept going the other way. I don't think I have come across such patient behaviour with anyone in this field that I have been a part of in the last 2 yrs.

Financial you say? I could provide you with detailed statement of the money spent on the car in the last 9 months which you can tally up with the tuner. It adds upto 2.5L, are you telling me that is a financial lack to mod as you have been told? From where I look at it I have spent loads of money and have got very little in return.

Let me go a bit further and say that, in the last month or so since I have decided to take charge on the mods carried out on my car and spent around 60k my car has been faster than EVER BEFORE. And members like binz, jay, pawan will vouch for this fact after sitting in my car. Can you explain to me why my car is much faster after I went back to a stock block than when I had a block that was claimed to take out all opposition? Or why I got more power after spending just 60k than when I spent over 2L to build the dream setup that was to run at Bombay speedrun?

Or could you explain to me why my head is suspected to give up anytime or why my gearbox ran without any oil? Is this related to financial issues as well or behavioural? Let me reveal another shocking news. It has been confirmed that while porting my head, the screwdriver slipped out of the tuners hand and has made a long scratch on my head. You can confirm this too with the tuner for authenticity. Besides among all you must be aware of the fact that at every possible instant I have praised the good work done by him. So why shouldn't I talk about the darker side?

From where I see it, close friends of the person at discussion are all trying to support without knowing the entire details. Or just because its hard to accept that someone whom you trusted as much could have done it. If I want to prove my point, all it will take is to get some people who have a very good credibility to come forward and speak out. But since this is not a personal battle I think its best to stay away from it.

Facts are there for everyone to see. People who have been around and seen my car go through every phase will know and vouch with every word I say here.

Quote:
Concluding - was it worth spending all that money and getting no where. You want to be a competition driver. All that money could have gone into professional training/ go karting championships/ FISSME racing. You could have been a champ by now!
Infact, from the developments made on the car over the last month had I gone to the right tuner I would still have achieved a lot more than what I did during this period.

But one always learns from his mistakes. I did and things are looking promising for me now.
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Absolutely. If we must have the facts, lets have 'em all.
Fine with me, so what are the facts your really want to know? Be direct! And not run around in circles like this. Or just go on posting that everyone should know the other end of the story too. Why don't you ask your friend to come up with the other side of the story?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 30th October 2007 at 21:47.
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Old 30th October 2007, 22:21   #85
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Please don't pull me into this thread.
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Old 31st October 2007, 00:14   #86
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
I just dropped the idea and now I am considering supercharger, which is less expensive setup and more reliable.
Please explain how an SC is more reliable, as well as less expensive? I often find that Vortech and Eaton SCs are rather more expensive than Garrett or Mitsubishi TCs.

@Mcl, good to see you got an ECU finally. If you remember, that was what everyone, including memo, iceman91 and me had advised you. I guess your new tuner atleast makes you listen.

But dude, I think you're just plain unlucky. I mean, after this track day, your car had some issue again. You thought it was the tie-rod ends which had just been replaced, but it turned out to be the driveshafts. I'm surprised your tuner, or the person who changed your tie-rods, didn't check the driveshafts. I mean, he can argue you were running it in and shouldn't have taken it on track blah-blah, but like you rightly said, your tuner should advise you and guide you, especially if you don't know better. It was really sad to see you almost stranded somewhere in the middle of rural TN at 1 am. This is why I don't touch my car unless I feel it's perfect. No point compromising.
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Old 31st October 2007, 06:56   #87
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@mcl, you mentioned that at times, you have to carry your own fuel. Is there something like an endurance fuel tank that yo can put in? something like 110L?
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:20   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akbaree View Post
I feel this thread is not about dark side of modifications..Rahul trusted someone so much and he now feel cheated when things didn't went as expected...tuner would have warned Rahul about what can go wrong,
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Sorry Ajit, but putting across things in a better way has always been my problem and the moderation team is quite aware of this fact already IMO.
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
..but like you rightly said, your tuner should advise you and guide you, especially if you don't know better.
akbaree, agreed that the crux of this thread is expectations.

mclaren, this is the internet and unless one is explicitly clear it is very difficult for people wo have barely met to understand each other. under these conditions i feel it better not to say anything at all than to say something that can be misconstrued.

Viper, if the "tunee" does not know any better it is advisable that the "tunee" upgrades his/her knowledge. An uninformed customer has really no one to blame but themsleves.

I drive (when I do) a reasonably fast stock car. Ofcourse i could have un chiped it, upgraded it's braking, suspenstion, exhaust, etc... but I know better (atleast I'd like to think I do). I know doing many of these things will reduce the relaibility of the car and the serviceability of the car.
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:06   #89
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I drive (when I do) a reasonably fast stock car. Ofcourse i could have un chiped it, upgraded it's braking, suspenstion, exhaust, etc... but I know better (atleast I'd like to think I do). I know doing many of these things will reduce the relaibility of the car and the serviceability of the car.
Actually reliability isn't a big issue if the tuner/tunee knows where to stop. I've seen modifed versions of my car (OHC Vtec), capable of leaving me in the dust......and still being as reliable as the stock one i drive.

And the fastest NA Vtec in Blore is nowhere close to being called the most heavily modified. Every modification is tried and tested for months before something new is thought of. And to think, that the owner has spent less than a lakh (on mods) to get it to this stage!! Trust me, i could count the number of mods done.....on one hand.

@Mclaren - I'm no tuner but i'l tell you this. Don't go in for a large number of mods at once. Take it one step at a time, see how the car is performing and you will definately end up with a really quick and reliable car.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 31st October 2007 at 13:09.
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Old 31st October 2007, 15:06   #90
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Actually reliability isn't a big issue if the tuner/tunee knows where to stop. I've seen modifed versions of my car (OHC Vtec), capable of leaving me in the dust......and still being as reliable as the stock one i drive.

And the fastest NA Vtec in Blore is nowhere close to being called the most heavily modified. Every modification is tried and tested for months before something new is thought of. And to think, that the owner has spent less than a lakh (on mods) to get it to this stage!! Trust me, i could count the number of mods done.....on one hand.

@Mclaren - I'm no tuner but i'l tell you this. Don't go in for a large number of mods at once. Take it one step at a time, see how the car is performing and you will definately end up with a really quick and reliable car.

Shan2nu

with every word of what Shan said... I could count that too!!

Cheers,
Shrey
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