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Old 31st October 2007, 15:56   #91
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Ajit, let me try to make a few things more clear. The major problems I suffered on my car were:

1. Improper porting/polishing on the head which included a screw driver mark on the head. Add a suspected fracture to that.

2. No gearbox oil filled in the car for perhaps 3 months. You expect oil to be filled when you get a close ratio gearbox fitted.

3. Inspite of giving clear cut instructions to carry out a service making sure every task on the service manual was checked my fuel filter was not replaced. Injectors were not cleaned. End result, one injector was not working at all. Don't you expect your mechs to look into all this?

4. Bombay Speedrun, car was ready at the last minute as always for reasons unknown. I followed every instruction that my tuner gave me, to the fact that he was cross checking them with me every hour on our journey to Bombay. I drove at around 70-80 kmph all the way to Pune and on my then tuners advice pushed the car a bit on the expressway. Mind you only in 4th and 5th gears without putting any strain on the engine.

Why did my car that had not clocked even 1200kms break down on the dragstrip? I nannied the car around all the while. Just for this build I had coughed up close to 1 Lakh rupees worth of mods.

Why did my car that was promised to run on 91 Oct fuel knock even on using 100+ Oct fuel?

Are you still trying to imply that all these problems were due to my behavioral or financial issues? Or due to my driving habits?

I think you of all people should know how it works at the place we used to get both our cars modded at. I seriously don't remember you sitting throughout the day and inspecting the fitting of headers, suspension, throttle body on your car either. May I ask why? Could it be because you trusted the person to do a good job like I did?

Also I don't see a reason why I should carefully put across my words just because the person whom I am referring to happens to be a well respected member here. I say things the way they are, based on what I went through. While the very same mods found it acceptable to have Nivit Bhasin's name come up on the forum, I don't understand why I should not take my ex-tuners name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
But dude, I think you're just plain unlucky. I mean, after this track day, your car had some issue again. You thought it was the tie-rod ends which had just been replaced, but it turned out to be the driveshafts. I'm surprised your tuner, or the person who changed your tie-rods, didn't check the driveshafts. I mean, he can argue you were running it in and shouldn't have taken it on track blah-blah, but like you rightly said, your tuner should advise you and guide you, especially if you don't know better. It was really sad to see you almost stranded somewhere in the middle of rural TN at 1 am. This is why I don't touch my car unless I feel it's perfect. No point compromising.
Driveshafts didn't have any problems prior to this trip. I got them checked with RNS, then my current tuner and the person who fitted the ball joints. They were ok. Since you didn't travel with us, let me point out to you that i hit quite a number of potholes pretty badly near Chamrajnagar. Parts like driveshafts are wear and tear parts and can give up anytime like brake pads. Which is what happened. Unlike the engine & gearbox troubles I had which were directly related to the quality of work done on them.

But stuff like not filling gearbox oil, checking if injectors are working or not, then blaming my behavioral and financial problems for the reason why my car kept breaking down is downright unacceptable. I wasn't unlucky, it was a lack of professionalism which is clearly indicated with the way my car was handled as I have mentioned above.

Finally what matters most is the fact that my car is faster than ever before after just spending 60k, out of which a good part of 30k went in only getting it back to stock specs (with reference to the block).

Can you tell me why my car is faster now after just spending 30k on mods, rather than the 1L I spent previously? This in itself says a lot. I think its justified to say "I got conned"!

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 31st October 2007 at 16:00.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:59   #92
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Dude, sorry to hear about what happened and glad to hear that you're back in shape. I am afraid of any mods whatsoever. This has reinforced my fear. Half the showrooms/garages I've been to have half baked knowledge. I don't trust anyone. Ask them a few informed questions and you'll start seeing their discomfort. But asking informed questions is the start.
And I support you. I trust my mechanic to maintain my car. If he doesn't, its his fault not mine.
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Old 31st October 2007, 17:06   #93
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Also I don't see a reason why I should carefully put across my words just because the person whom I am referring to happens to be a well respected member here. I say things the way they are, based on what I went through. While the very same mods found it acceptable to have Nivit Bhasin's name come up on the forum, I don't understand why I should not take my ex-tuners name.
No one has asked you not to, or refrained you from doing so. Atleast the last that I checked. It is you who opened the thread referring to the tuner as a third party.
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Old 31st October 2007, 17:58   #94
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No one has asked you not to, or refrained you from doing so. Atleast the last that I checked. It is you who opened the thread referring to the tuner as a third party.
Rudy called me up and asked me not to mention any names. Last I read there was a post on this very thread which said no mentioning names by Rudra. I think the posts got deleted.
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Old 31st October 2007, 18:12   #95
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Good to know that your car is running fine and happy for you at that.

After spending some 10 years in garages of all sorts, bikes to cars, i have learnt it the hard way, lost hope and did things myself. i can safely say that in India there is no one who can be really termed and glorified as "Tuners".

Yeah fine tuning is another aspect, blue printing is another. But scientifically studying and modding with proper machines and tools, gimme a break!!! Lets not make a mockery of that word "tuner" please.

Best option, buy tested and tried parts and "install". Then ensure that you do your regular service and competent A.S.S, its really worth it. Atleast one can go back and kick their B**T if something is not proper.

So i think you have conveyed your points really well here, so move on my friend. I repeat its a costly lesson, just learn from it.

Last edited by Jaggu : 31st October 2007 at 18:21.
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Old 31st October 2007, 18:37   #96
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Rudy called me up and asked me not to mention any names. Last I read there was a post on this very thread which said no mentioning names by Rudra. I think the posts got deleted.
That was in the very begining, then we decided not to put any restriction. Those posts got deleted for the same reason. You are free to name the tuner.
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Old 31st October 2007, 20:02   #97
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You are free to name the tuner.
Moot point really.. IMHO, By now, only an imbecile would have found it difficult to figure out who the tuner is.. The very first post on this thread refers to the earlier thread .i.e PART I and urges everyone to read it..

Moral of the story: (Again IMHO) There is none so far, since it STILL IS JUST one side of the story that we have heard so far.
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Old 31st October 2007, 20:18   #98
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The major problems I suffered on my car were:

1. Improper porting/polishing on the head which included a screw driver mark on the head. Add a suspected fracture to that.

2. No gearbox oil filled in the car for perhaps 3 months. You expect oil to be filled when you get a close ratio gearbox fitted.

3. Inspite of giving clear cut instructions to carry out a service making sure every task on the service manual was checked my fuel filter was not replaced. Injectors were not cleaned. End result, one injector was not working at all. Don't you expect your mechs to look into all this?
Fair points but how did a scratch create a crack, no doubt, let me speak up on the behavioral/ financial issue as mentioned by the mechanics out there which could have led to a lack of enthusiasm leading to this. (this is prior to things going sour)

1: Unpaid bills (a lot of work done and no insight when they would be paid)
2: Unreasonable timelines, wanting the earth yesterday,

This led to skimping on stuff - lot of issues on having to stop work on regular customer cars (people who pay promptly on completion of work- their bread and butter) to do work on your car - being mods, one can never predict that it would run right first time so totally throwing other customer car deliveries off track.

Quote:
Why did my car that had not clocked even 1200kms break down on the dragstrip? I nannied the car around all the while. Just for this build I had coughed up close to 1 Lakh rupees worth of mods.
Becuase it had done a lot more than 1200 kms, proof here (Mclaren's take on the baleno over the 1st 1000kms, believe it or not in 2 days..)

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I seriously don't remember you sitting throughout the day and inspecting the fitting of headers, suspension, throttle body on your car either. May I ask why? Could it be because you trusted the person to do a good job like I did?
Sure, I was there throughout the headers fitment. Where were you? Suspension, I was in Penang, TB and IM, I cannnot add value until final fitment but monitored things by phone. I did trust "the person" and I also defined the scope, expectations and did my research!

Quote:
Also I don't see a reason why I should carefully put across my words just because the person whom I am referring to happens to be a well respected member here. I say things the way they are, based on what I went through. While the very same mods found it acceptable to have Nivit Bhasin's name come up on the forum, I don't understand why I should not take my ex-tuners name
.

What do you think he is going through? He never intended to con you, you experimented together, taking big jumps, pushing too hard in an unstructured manner. Note: I say both of you Nivit Bhasin clearly intends to con.

Quote:
Parts like driveshafts are wear and tear parts and can give up anytime like brake pads.
If you monitor and keep tabs, nothing sudden should happen. Did you check the gearbox seals for oil leaks. Please note this if you buy a Cessna later on in life

Quote:
I wasn't unlucky, it was a lack of professionalism which is clearly indicated with the way my car was handled as I have mentioned above.
There was a lack of motivation which probably led to a poor quality of service. This is my theory, please feel free to say I am wrong

Quote:
Can you tell me why my car is faster now after just spending 30k on mods, rather than the 1L I spent previously?
Do you have actual performance figures - before, after, during to state this - you have not stated this

BTW, the car has not been anywhere near the "tuner" since March end so I understand. Since then, the car has been pushed really hard on Nandi Hills, Yelagiri and two track days at least based on forum postings - quite a long time since that service to dislodge your seals, stress the engine with those HC pistonsin a hot summer

Let me name the tuner you allegedly want to name and shame

Psycho

It will make it easier instead of saying "the tuner" , "former tuner" but the issue is which tuner - the car has been visiting various tuners since March so it is difficult to pin point. I am confused now who dunnit

All I can say, there are two sides, I am merely posting my observations

Last edited by ajmat : 31st October 2007 at 21:26.
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Old 31st October 2007, 21:07   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
What do you think he is going through? He never intended to con you, you experimented together, taking big jumps, pushing too hard in an unstructured manner. Note: I say both of you Nivit Bhasin clearly intends to con.
This echoes my thoughts somewhat.

I have been following the earlier thread too, and this one. I do not know either Rahul or the tuner or the circumstances, other than what I have read here. I would like to put forth my observation. Note that this is not a judgement, but an observation from the eyes of a neutral person on this forum.

A conman will con a lot of people. Word spreads. Just like it has about Nivit. In this case, I get the feeling ,things went wrong for reasons other than malicious. And there probably should not be any generic characterisation of either party.

It's sad losing a friend. I pray someday you guys will make up.

Let's get on with the travails of modding in general.
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Old 31st October 2007, 21:44   #100
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Let me reveal another shocking news. It has been confirmed that while porting my head, the screwdriver slipped out of the tuners hand and has made a long scratch on my head. You can confirm this too with the tuner for authenticity.
Dude you really sure about this? A screw driver slipping and falling and creating a scratch??? And what was a screw driver doing in a port job?

Whatever little knowledge i have about porting and polishing tells me that its grinding wheels and deburring tools that are used.

You were very happy with your 1L build until bad fuel and probably over revving screwed it up right? If I remember correctly you told me you overtook a merc which was doing about 220 and the merc didnt catch up with you until you took a break 15-20 mins later

Also your 1L build was supposed to have been a turbo setup which was why you got forged parts? Obviously the forged parts cost a bomb and dont do much to boost your power until you actually turbo it.

No offences meant but when I had your car down here I had to replace 3 of your lug nuts on the front wheel which were completely worn out. IIRC it has been so since that Nandi Hill Climb??? That alone would have been enough to break down your suspension and bearings...

Last edited by Harrie : 31st October 2007 at 21:47.
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Old 31st October 2007, 22:34   #101
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Also your 1L build was supposed to have been a turbo setup which was why you got forged parts? Obviously the forged parts cost a bomb and dont do much to boost your power until you actually turbo it.
Thats news. So obviously this 1L didnt go to Psycho as is being interpreted from the posts here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
No offence meant but when I had your car down here I had to replace 3 of your lug nuts on the front wheel which were completely worn out. IIRC it has been so since that Nandi Hill Climb??? That alone would have been enough to break down your suspension and bearings...
Tell me about it. I personally saw that car first in May 2006 when it was just 3 months or so NEW. It looked like it was a few years old, was dirty inside and out, had broken lug nuts and tyres with very little tread. It remained dirty and lugnut-less for 3 days in Goa and from what was posted here it was driven to Bangalore and driven around in Bangalore in much the same condition. So much for a car that is now being eulogised in order to get back at someone.

Perhaps you would like to educate us on the condition of your Palio after it got back from Bangalore.

Personally I am of the opinion that such a one-sided version of dealings BETWEEN two members who have obviously fallen out with each other should not be allowed on the forum and should be sorted out outside. This thread seems more like personal vendetta than any genuine desire to help others.


Note: This post is not a reply to the thread initiator and is written with no malice intended at that person, but is meant as fair warning to others that are reading it in good faith.

Last edited by Steeroid : 31st October 2007 at 22:45.
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Old 31st October 2007, 22:48   #102
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Actually I have been reading this thread for a few days and not commenting. I do not know a cam from my bum. So I can add no value to this thread.

But honestly, I don't like the fact that someone would publicly flail dirty laundry on someone he once called a friend. It's sad.
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Old 31st October 2007, 23:52   #103
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Actually I have been reading this thread for a few days and not commenting. I do not know a cam from my bum. So I can add no value to this thread.

But honestly, I don't like the fact that someone would publicly flail dirty laundry on someone he once called a friend. It's sad.
I too have been following this thread the way you have Sam ... the technical jagron doesn't make any sense to me but I drove the mentioned car in Goa about 2 summers back and she moved pretty sweetly for a baleno , infact had me impressed and at that point she was adorned with only the very basic mods .

As for whats happening is not good . I know both the parties though I havn't called and checked with any one of them on any details hoping that they both can sit down and sort things out instead of muck being thrown all around . Also as the other side of the story hasn't come out it wouldn't be fair for a newbie to get a wrong impression about the mentioned tuner .

mclaren @ lets not start comparing Nivit to Psycho or vice versa ..... thats disgusting my friend . As for the car being faster now , its again what you feel about it being faster but then there is no guarantee that it really is faster . My advise is that you should go across and sort it out -- if he has made a mistake Im sure he is man enuff to admit and try and correct whatever loss may have been caused due to his mistake . But lets cut out the public slamming --

psycho @ you have stayed very quiet on this and if you do still take time out to visit the forum pls do clarify on a few points or maybe give everyone the other side of the story though knowing you , you will not ever give your side of the story .

let it go guys ... cars come and cars go but friends stay on forever . Its a very common line but very very true .
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Old 1st November 2007, 00:54   #104
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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
There was a lack of motivation which probably led to a poor quality of service. This is my theory, please feel free to say I am wrong
IMHO, if someone is not interested, he/she should not take the work. You either do it or you don't.

Last edited by akbaree : 1st November 2007 at 01:03.
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Old 1st November 2007, 01:43   #105
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Please explain how an SC is more reliable, as well as less expensive? I often find that Vortech and Eaton SCs are rather more expensive than Garrett or Mitsubishi TCs.
First of all, the SC are self contained unit in the sense of they dont need plumbing for oil into the pan and all that.

Their units are sealed and dont need servicing or oil change for min 50k. Yes there are SC units which do need plumbing but they are really the high end models.

Very easy setup as no need to change/mod the E mainfold. Runs on your primary belt with just a long belt.

If anything goes wrong, then just remove the unit and you get your car back to stock in no time.

They are cheaper then the turbo units. Any descent turbo starts from 500 and up.

]
Turbo can have bearing failure or any leakage/breakdown can result in engine failure.

Their power delivery is linear across the rev range.

They come with electronic clutch which disengages the unit when the power is not needed and kick in the moment you squeze the throttle.

pullies on SC can be swaped easily to upgrade or downgrade the your requirement.

You just need pressure regulater and a descent induction kit to start with.

No need to map the ecu or to alter the timing. Everything remains stock on the engine.

No need to change the AFM.

They dont generate excessive engine heat so less stress on your cooling system and engine. Thats due to theie linear power delivery as with turbo whick produces more heat due to its kick *** punch.

No lag or spooling time needed to get car in motion.

SC works well with high compression engines hence you really dont need to change the internals. But all depends how much boost an engine can cope with in standard form.


The simplicity of the SC is the main reason why MB have adopted in their clk's and avoided the turbos. I have seen so many turbo failure in the E class diesels which just puts me off.

Most of the USA sports cars with big block v8's go for SC rather then turbo due to some of the reason's above. All the new C7 and mustangs come with the SC units.

SC makes more practical sense to me but every one to its own
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