Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th December 2007, 21:48   #106
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal View Post
E-manage or piggy back are not enough for turbo jobs switching on to fully standalone ECU unit is the only way can fine tune your fuel maps and ignition timings......and one thing for sure you cant tune a turbo setup without engine or chassis dyno...if somebody is tunning it without that.......simmply means your not getting the full tune up or the proper tune......coz tuner is a human being not a dyno.....i have worked with many personnels while the turbo jobs are done....and found out only way to do it professionally is a dyno.......

Really? I've seen some very powerful setups (meaning 300+ whp from a 1.6 which puts out 115 hp stock) which have been done with nothing more than an e-manage, bigger injectors & other related hardware. No standalone in sight anywhere. However, a standalone will definitely be better, its just that standalone is not the "only way".

Dyno tuning helps get an excellent tune that's 100% optimized, but one can get close to that without the use of one. People have tuned by ear for years together, its only now that you get nice tools like wideband and EGT to aid in tuning.

Please share your experience with dyno tuning. Tell us more about how its done "professionally".



Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
about the dyno...i haven't confirmed this...but Karan's dyno here in Mumbai can handle only around 250hp?!? that's what I was told, can someone please confirm...
I doubt it. The smallest dynojet can measure up to 1500 hp. Even some of their older models could measure a minimum of 1000 hp.

Last edited by ananthkamath : 27th December 2007 at 21:51.
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 21:52   #107
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Also piggybacks are a good option if you want to continue running the car's OEM electronics network, running through the car. The OEM ECM's control an awful lot of functions these days.
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 22:45   #108
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jalandhar
Posts: 48
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
Most standard ecu's can handle boost to certain levels and piggybacks are used to tune them within that range. You can up fuelling by increasing injector size and ignition curves by using the right tools. Most of the piggybacks allow you to tune the same but to a limited extent.

PS: I agree that having a dyno is beneficial but dont tell me cars havent / arent being tuned without dyno's and are still performing well?
I agree with u bout the normal boosts levels like the 4-7 u can use a piggy back.....but i am talking about the proper setups......well one more thing is yea i know almost everyone tunes according to the experience coz india i guess is just having one dyno.......so wat i meant by my statement is u can tune either u need the car for months with the tuner or still can tune your car which is running just fine but is not optimized....opmization was my point sir....

PS:- Hey Psycho i know ur esteem is running gr8 but can experiment with your tuning sir but not a lehman can do that hehehe

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : SMS / Slang language is not the preferred mode of communication on Team-BHP. We would much appreciate if you type your post out in clear and concise english for the benefit of other community members.

Thanks!

Last edited by aah78 : 28th December 2007 at 04:00. Reason: See note.
archerdyal is offline   Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 28th December 2007, 00:59   #109
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal View Post
I agree with u bout the normal boosts levels like the 4-7 u can use a piggy back.....but i am talking about the proper setups......
This is the exact kind of misinformation we don't need spread around. If you talking about SAFC and other basic piggybacks then yeah. They arent capable of controlling a turbo setup. But an e-manage is a totally different animal. So is an Xede. These are much better solutions and people have run 15+ psi all day long without breaking a sweat.
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 02:01   #110
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jalandhar
Posts: 48
Thanked: 0 Times
Default hi

Yes i am exactly talking bout SAFC and Apexi neo..........but i dont think so to run e-manage at high boost i mean you are producing 50% more power or maybe more and still u think its possible with e mange well if u have done that or seen thats very good....but i dun think so stock ecu will not be able to handle the pulse width of big injectors...i am talking about big injectors because you need them at 15 pounds of boost......
archerdyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 06:26   #111
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 289 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Mamamia! I would really like to see someone doing this on an Indian car. 2bar is no joke and its far easier said than done.
They can do that if they use the Diesel Internals.. LOLz
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 06:32   #112
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal View Post
still u think its possible with e mange well
I don't THINK so, I KNOW so. You can think all you want, its been done, I've seen it being done and there are ways to do it. For starters, go read the book on turbocharging by Corky Bell.
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 13:26   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal
but not a lehman can do that hehehe
Turbo tuning is not for laymen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal
but i dont think so to run e-manage at high boost i mean you are producing 50% more power
Can do it with the right injectors and eManage with the basic wiring harness (depends on the model of the car too.) Please read this as 7-8 psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal
but i dun think so stock ecu will not be able to handle the pulse width of big injectors
True

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
Going by the fuel quality in India, I would say 97 Oct would be the safest bet. Even otherwise you can buy octane boosters off the shelf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum (best tuner for turbo charging???)
Any idea what octane of fuel would be necessary to run the car on 1.5 to 2 bar?
Please do not forget the compression coz the fuelling octane depends on that. (Octane rating depends on the dynamic compression that the car runs)

Last edited by Psycho : 28th December 2007 at 13:28.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 16:37   #114
BHPian
 
memo45_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 299
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
AMEN! On an Indian car that is. Most tuners are now TCing for single digit psi. I am YET to see a car running 1bar or more reliably for 6 months. And some who claim to have, don't really come out with the true story.
Dude there is at least 1 car i know of that is running a little close to 1 bar of boost, and if you want to know why that car did run the mumbai sr at half the boost it was set up to run was cos the fuel pump had packed up and would lean out after a specfic band and was fixed track side, and yes it was not the most reliable of car but of all the turbo cars i know abt it has been the most reliable and is also being used as a daily drive to date, yes after almost close to a year of running there seems to be a problem with the wastegate and as all turbo cars it does eat on the clutch....
Well now from the same team there is also a 1.0l turbo too, which i heard is really quick but there is still work to be completed on it.,
memo45_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 17:06   #115
BHPian
 
memo45_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 299
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal View Post
E-manage or piggy back are not enough for turbo jobs switching on to fully standalone ECU unit is the only way can fine tune your fuel maps and ignition timings......and one thing for sure you cant tune a turbo setup without engine or chassis dyno...if somebody is tunning it without that.......simmply means your not getting the full tune up or the proper tune......coz tuner is a human being not a dyno.....i have worked with many personnels while the turbo jobs are done....and found out only way to do it professionally is a dyno.......
Have you seen these installs and tuning being done outside India.... then yes thats the way to go cos roadside tuning is ILLEGAL, but in India there is no such rule so it is done the crude way, as i have see some tuners do it without a dyno can get as close to 90% perfection and the SR results speak for them....
Well agreed with what every one says stock ecu's may not be re-mapped but the easiest and cheapest add-on to the computer is getting a piggy-back like a emanage blue/emanage untimate, hondata etc.... If u closely look at all the sites they say a piggy-back is a required upgrade(for bolt on kits mostly stock) but Stand alone is a ultimate upgrade........... Completely agree with what Psycho say reguarding the right kind of injector upsizing and setting up of the fuel and ignition maps using the right set of tools.
I know the emanage blue is capable of holding 1bar or more of boost with no problems if all the wiring is done.
Emanage blue connected through the universal wiring harness from greddy in an Esteem and Zen both turboed.... no problem...

Last edited by memo45_m : 28th December 2007 at 17:22. Reason: additions
memo45_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2007, 07:02   #116
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jalandhar
Posts: 48
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Hey memo,Psycho,
Yeah you could be right about e manage but i am talking about high end jobs because the thread was for the best so best will be high money=More power.....i am talking about dynos here because the figures and the quality the tuner gets.............. its simply a aid to the tuner what say...

PS:-I live in california and this state has the most strict laws but still i find so many cars with custom turbo jobs and high end modding
archerdyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2007, 13:18   #117
BHPian
 
memo45_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 299
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerdyal View Post
Hey memo,Psycho,
Yeah you could be right about e manage but i am talking about high end jobs because the thread was for the best so best will be high money=More power.....i am talking about dynos here because the figures and the quality the tuner gets.............. its simply a aid to the tuner what say...

PS:-I live in california and this state has the most strict laws but still i find so many cars with custom turbo jobs and high end modding
YES buddy i know all abt Cali have been there, I am presently in Denver and i am also in to the modding thingy(doing a degree on the same), both here and back home in Bangalore..... Yes agree with you the dyno is the best way to tune, but there are some ppl i know who can tune cars without a dyno and there results are reconized too....
Well as far as I know there is only one dyno that is finally approchable to the public and the other two are factory owned, well considering the fact that I am from Bangalore do u think i would go all the way to Mumbai just to dyno my car i would be spending more than i am asking for just to tune the car when i know somebody who can set it to 90% state of tune with the right set of tools.
With the right set of tools i am reffering to the high end computer technology like the emanage bundle software where u now get data logging both on standing and running and other such software bundles that plug to your compand the car's ob2 port, and also the use of wideband o2 sensor and scanner and data mapping kits which let you know instant afr and lamda values and the logging can be broken in to in milliseconds... and with these tools say u can approx set a 90% state of tune for your performance mods and as a tumb rule approx the bhp on the crank and abt 20-25% will be the bhp rating on the wheels.....
Well reguarding the ecu thing pls look up the emanage site for the mods you can do throught the emanage ultimate, the piggy back that you can consider to be a standalone, and yes I do use one on my car and it does let you tune to a really good extent from fule and ignition maps to shift managment for triptronic shifts... By the way there are a bunch of piggy backs that let you do a lot more that what they are capable of doing..... Well as you are in the US of A, you probably know of the loads of fedral and state restrictions......

Last edited by memo45_m : 29th December 2007 at 13:20. Reason: additions
memo45_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 00:06   #118
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jalandhar
Posts: 48
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Well as you are in the US of A, you probably know of the loads of fedral and state restrictions......[/quote]


Yea rite
archerdyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 19:37   #119
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by memo45_m View Post
Dude there is at least 1 car i know of that is running a little close to 1 bar of boost, and if you want to know why that car did run the mumbai sr at half the boost it was set up to run was cos the fuel pump had packed up and would lean out after a specfic band and was fixed track side, and yes it was not the most reliable of car but of all the turbo cars i know abt it has been the most reliable and is also being used as a daily drive to date, yes after almost close to a year of running there seems to be a problem with the wastegate and as all turbo cars it does eat on the clutch....
Well now from the same team there is also a 1.0l turbo too, which i heard is really quick but there is still work to be completed on it.,
Oh! I hope you are completely aware of the fact that the car you are talking about also had a problem with the head (which was certainly not a minor issue)? Like I said earlier, not everything you hear is the truth (specially since you haven't been around to witness things). Or the entire truth hardly ever comes out. This applies to MOST tuners. Not trying to pin point at anyone.

Also, how many turbo cars have you seen running in India apart from the one you seem to so well know about?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 30th December 2007 at 19:38.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 21:47   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Oh! I hope you are completely aware of the fact that the car you are talking about also had a problem with the head (which was certainly not a minor issue)? Like I said earlier, not everything you hear is the truth (specially since you haven't been around to witness things). Or the entire truth hardly ever comes out. This applies to MOST tuners. Not trying to pin point at anyone.

Also, how many turbo cars have you seen running in India apart from the one you seem to so well know about?
Sorry this is not going to be pointed at you but is going to be generic. What I do with my car is my problem. Let me clear a few things once and for all on this forum:

1) I am not a tuner: I work for a software company and Vasu a good friend and mech helps me with my builds.

2) Yes I run over 12 PSI if I go on a full throttle but that I hardly ever do.

3) Yes there have been problems with my car and no car gets through a tuning round with it being 100% bang on.

4) Yes my head has been damaged on a couple of occasions but never irrerepairable the last time was mentioned online. However yes I changed my head (nothing turned out to be wrong with it) but the problems root cause lay with my water pump failing. Now mechanicals are out of my hands as I do not manufacture parts.

5) I do not wish to know what the other cars run I am happy with what I have. Hence my car my business so please lay off all of you who have problems with it.

I came on to this forum as a newbie myself to cars and and lived here as an enthusiast and would love to continue to do so without indirect personal attacks. So please let us all share our learnings rather than picking on flaws all the time. This is a place where we come together to form a community not as a nitpicking group. So please let us all enjoy our stay here.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo-charging a Honda Accord V6? accord masters Modifications & Accessories 13 22nd September 2006 23:37
Can a Turbo's Charging be SET as needed ?? Jatt Technical Stuff 28 23rd June 2006 16:17
Turbo charging a Ford ikon 1.6 shazikon Modifications & Accessories 50 18th September 2005 11:10
Turbo-charging a pre-2000 TATA Sierra hell_rider The Indian Car Scene 5 8th September 2005 13:05
turbo charging snoopy41 Technical Stuff 48 10th September 2004 12:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:42.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks