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Old 18th February 2008, 00:00   #1
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Default Gypsy MG410 suspension lift and...

Greetings to all you good folks at TeamBHP,

First of all, let me congratulate you people for a great forum and a wonderfully informative discussion board.

I have been around for a while reading up on stuff but this happens to be my very first post.

I have been out of the country for quite a while now(thus my queries) but hope to be back soon for a considerable period of time. I have a '86 MG410 1.0L Gypsy(original early lot, single owned...and may I add, very well maintained) in Delhi on which I am planning to carry out some modifications. Make no mistake, it is a very capable off-roader even in its stock form! Trust me (and the people who've tried it) - I have driven it all over the country and have taken it to places where no other vehicle(at least in India) with the possible exception of the 4WD MMs, would even dare to go...though I must admit that it is more of a mountain goat than a mud-skipper!!

Here are a few of my queries regarding the aforementioned :

1. Would anybody here know of anyone in Delhi who does a good suspension-lift job (including driveline and steering geometry alterations/modifications where necessary) on the Gypsy?

2. Are after market suspension parts like long travel shocks(like OMEs), shackles(Calmini, ARB/OME - possibly even for SPOA layout), ARB lift-kits, etc., or their local counterparts available in Delhi? Or is fabrication the way to go - if so where? Also, would I be able to find mud/trail tyres(30"-31") for my vehicle and how much would they cost?

3. Does anybody here drive a 1.8L petrol 4WD MM540? I had driven one for a couple of months some years back and thoroughly enjoyed the brilliant Isuzu engine and greatly admired its capabilities though it was somewhat like the old Yezdi when it came to stopping, at least the one I drove!

I had a good mind to go for an engine transplant but could not mate the transmission/4WD transfer case, without which the whole exercise seemed pointless! I have read here that GTO had something similar in mind long back but also did not want to sacrifice the 4WD of his Classic. Wonder if he has come up with something since then?

While on this, will it be possible to find a petrol 1.8L 4WD MM540...or at least the gear-box/transfer case which can then be mated to the 1.8L Isuzu motor which I believe is widely available and cheap(so I'm told!)? Any information about the gear-box of the petrol MM540 will be appreciated. Else, can I buy a used 1.3L mpfi engine+transmission that does duty on the 2nd gen King? If so, where should I look?

Any information, suggestions and advice will be highly valued. My apologies if I had too many queries for my first post - will save the rest(snorkels/filters/etc...) for later...hehehe!!!

Thank you all once again for your time and once again, you folks have a great thing going - keep up the good horse-power!

Best wishes & cheers:
S.
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Old 18th February 2008, 01:10   #2
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Originally Posted by diff_locked View Post
Greetings to all you good folks at TeamBHP,



3. Does anybody here drive a 1.8L petrol 4WD MM540? I had driven one for a couple of months some years back and thoroughly enjoyed the brilliant Isuzu engine and greatly admired its capabilities though it was somewhat like the old Yezdi when it came to stopping, at least the one I drove!

I had a good mind to go for an engine transplant but could not mate the transmission/4WD transfer case, without which the whole exercise seemed pointless! I have read here that GTO had something similar in mind long back but also did not want to sacrifice the 4WD of his Classic. Wonder if he has come up with something since then?

While on this, will it be possible to find a petrol 1.8L 4WD MM540...or at least the gear-box/transfer case which can then be mated to the 1.8L Isuzu motor which I believe is widely available and cheap(so I'm told!)? Any information about the gear-box of the petrol MM540 will be appreciated. Else, can I buy a used 1.3L mpfi engine+transmission that does duty on the 2nd gen King? If so, where should I look?


S.
Can not help you with the Gypsy. Lift kits in India? Good question, you do not hear about them.

There was a recent thread here about gear boxes and transfer cases in this forum on the MM540. Suggest you do a search here for it. There is also some info in the 4x4-off road section on MM540s. There is one rather intriguing engine swap thread there where the MM540 owner installed a Simpson S4 diesel (3330cc) into his MM540 and it was almost a straight bolt in job.

Alas, since GTO has become a tycoon he has let his MM Classic rot away, engineless, much to the dismay of us "TRUE" jeep lovers. Perhaps he will wake up soon and realize the error of his ways.
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Old 18th February 2008, 01:40   #3
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Find an esteem engine(gypsy king engine). Its a direct fit and you will be able to use it with minimum modifications.
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Old 18th February 2008, 13:53   #4
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Keen on injecting steroids into the old horse eh?

Quote:

1. Would anybody here know of anyone in Delhi who does a good suspension-lift job (including driveline and steering geometry alterations/modifications where necessary) on the Gypsy?
Plenty of kits (for Gypsy / Samurai) available internationally, though I have seen some local "jugad" jobs too. Get in touch with Arush @ AutoPsyche if you are open to importing a kit. NC had once spotted a lifted Gypsy (monster gypsy !!) too.

Be warned that the lift will affect stability at speed, which is by itself a sore point with even the stock Gypsy.

Quote:

3. Does anybody here drive a 1.8L petrol 4WD MM540? I had driven one for a couple of months some years back and thoroughly enjoyed the brilliant Isuzu engine and greatly admired its capabilities though it was somewhat like the old Yezdi when it came to stopping, at least the one I drove!
Great engine, but finding a 4x4 transfer box is next to impossible (ask me!!). The MM540 1.8 was built within only a brief span of time, and in extremely limited numbers. As TSK has suggested, an Esteem engine is more suited to your purpose, as mounts etc. will be a straight lift from the Gypsy king.

Also, get in touch with xtreme_power for tips. He owns what is one of the best Gypsies I have seen to date. All the purposeful mods on it have been done in house by his team. Why, he has even taken it to the Himalayas!

What I'd really recommend to you is to sell your Gypsy and buy a recent model King instead. Not only do you get a newer car, but also the 1.3 engine and the widetrack design.

Quote:
Alas, since GTO has become a tycoon he has let his MM Classic rot away, engineless, much to the dismay of us "TRUE" jeep lovers. Perhaps he will wake up soon and realize the error of his ways.
LOL! It is you guys at Team-BHP that take away my "Jeep" time. BTW I am currently on the lookout for a good ol' diesel engine for the Jeep. Expect my baby to be on the road this year.
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Old 18th February 2008, 14:04   #5
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Find an esteem engine(gypsy king engine). Its a direct fit and you will be able to use it with minimum modifications.
The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..

apologies for the screaming..there are a lot more to it than a straight fit.

@diff_locked: The MG410 is a great off road machine and is good enough for most situations. I've a Gypsy King Carb with a fully modded engine and all.. to enhance the low end torque.

The gypsy engine has a better low end torque than the esteem engined gypsy with 5sp and 4wd.

There are a lot of sites as GTO had pointed : search for suzuki samurai / suzuki jimny and you will be able to find info as well as how to source the material.

We [a group of friends] are tryin to source some high lift suspension kits..will give details if successful.

Have fun on the gypsy and welcome to Team-BHP.
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Old 18th February 2008, 14:05   #6
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Quote:
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LOL! It is you guys at Team-BHP that take away my "Jeep" time. BTW I am currently on the lookout for a good ol' diesel engine for the Jeep. Expect my baby to be on the road this year.
What diesel engine do you want..and what gearbox are you planning to mate it to..2WD or 4WD..will try and get you an engine..if you could answer these please.
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Old 18th February 2008, 15:20   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..The esteem engine is NOT A STRAIGHT FIT on a gypsy..
WHY ?
I had a gypsy king with the 60bhp carb engine which was a slightly modified esteem engine.
did lots of very serious offroading and river fording in that vehicle, even managed to fry clutch at 30K kms.

Is the MG410 very very different from the MG413W which is the gypsy with esteem engine?
I guess the MG410 was a modified zen engine.
Lots of zens go for esteem engines, so why not the MG410
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Old 18th February 2008, 15:58   #8
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What diesel engine do you want..and what gearbox are you planning to mate it to..2WD or 4WD..will try and get you an engine..if you could answer these please.
The 2.1 XDP (2112cc) stock Classic engine. Would be grateful if you could source one. Even if it needs a rebuild, no problemo. Thanks!

@ difflock : Sorry for hijacking your engine thread with my engine!
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Old 18th February 2008, 16:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
WHY ?
I had a gypsy king with the 60bhp carb engine which was a slightly modified esteem engine.
did lots of very serious offroading and river fording in that vehicle, even managed to fry clutch at 30K kms.

Is the MG410 very very different from the MG413W which is the gypsy with esteem engine?
I guess the MG410 was a modified zen engine.
Lots of zens go for esteem engines, so why not the MG410
look closely at the bonnets of the MG410 and the MG413 and you'll realise that starting from the height of the engine..there is a change.. The 413W has a lot of subtle changes that make the swap not easy to do.

Personally i love the looks of the gypsy and am not able to get that onto my king cos the width is an issue.
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Old 18th February 2008, 16:15   #10
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Ok it may not be easy, bit it will definitely be easier than fitting a 1.8L isuzu!
Anways I have seen lots of gypsy's in punjab running diesel engines(mostly Daihatsu/Toyota imports). so the esteem engine job should not be as big a problem.
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Old 18th February 2008, 19:32   #11
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I guess the MG410 was a modified zen engine.
Didnt the MG410 have the same engine as the Maruti 1000?
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Old 18th February 2008, 19:45   #12
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I've seen the MG410's head, its definitely not the Zen's(similar to esteem) head.
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Old 18th February 2008, 20:04   #13
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The gypsy started life with the engine of the Maruti 1000. It had a similar gearbox to the omni. In fact they share the same clutch plate and cover assembly.
The esteem engine is not a direct fit and requires a change of gearbox, mounting points etc. The esteem engine is also much taller that the 1000 engine.
The MG410 was really, really underpowered and is no match for the king. I would go with GTO's suggestion, i.e., change the car!
GTO how about an XD3P turbo engine for your jeep? The engine is quieter and smoother than the XDP4.9.

Last edited by jyobeb : 18th February 2008 at 20:07.
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Old 18th February 2008, 21:16   #14
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The gypsy started life with the engine of the Maruti 1000. It had a similar gearbox to the omni. In fact they share the same clutch plate and cover assembly.
The esteem engine is not a direct fit and requires a change of gearbox, mounting points etc. The esteem engine is also much taller that the 1000 engine.
The MG410 was really, really underpowered and is no match for the king. I would go with GTO's suggestion, i.e., change the car!
GTO how about an XD3P turbo engine for your jeep? The engine is quieter and smoother than the XDP4.9.
yeah agreed.the esteem engine is taller than the 1000s. Thats why the differrence in the bonnet shape between the gypsy and the gypsy king.

@GTO, the XD3P without turbo is also a good buy. Arka aka ex670c has one in his jeep and our expert offroader Nitrous has sampled the same lifting wheels etc.. [refer the offroad training @ kelambakkam...]

Will try to source some engines for your jeep..the tavera engine is a great buy, but honestly trying to source / install 2nd hand turbo engines require a lot of patience and the jingle.
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Old 18th February 2008, 22:26   #15
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Ahhh tha MG410, i own one myself... its my workhorse, transports ten people everyday to and fro from work and has put around 5,60,000kms on the odo to date with two major overhauls and one time cylinder head repair. Now thats unbeatable reliability! Some of my workers managed to add the widebody wheel arcs on to it along with widened bumpers, although it looks funny without the widetrack wheel setup. Its still in the original dark blue color that came on the car in 1986 (same as the police gypsys) repainted a couple of times.

Now coming back to the topic... there are some nice hi lift kits available outside india. Im planning to do one on a friends car sometime soon, looking at a mini-monster gypsy kinda setup with about a 4" lift and 33" tires. Will keep you posted on that front on the progress. Cheers.

Cheers.
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