Performance Mods for CNG Cars

[wolfinstein]

Sorry for the delayed entry,

To begin with a TAP processor is for 3 generation Kits which are primarily Open loop control, Under a closed loop system a TAP is made redundant.

The latest Sequential Systems come under the 5 Gen class, and have a seprate ECU Control unit which overrides the OEM car ECU.

For basic Starts- Easy modifications to extract the best performance are :

1) Cooler Air Intake
2) Platinum Plugs or Super 4 Bosch, Although a multi Prong plug will not neccessarily create a Heavy spark, it will last longer and will require less Gap adjustments.
3) Throttle-Air Filter cleaning at regular intervals of 5000 Km.

Now for the serious burners;

1) Cold Air Intake System.
2) Enlarged Throttle.
3) Powerful Ignition Coil, with High Cap Spark Wires
4) Iridium or Platinum Plugs

For the Major Mods;

1) Sequential Injection Kit with ECU Controller


Although you can have a TAP processor installed, its use becomes negated with a Seprate ECU controller.

[Gangsta]

Originally Posted by wolfinstein

Sorry for the delayed entry,

To begin with a TAP processor is for 3 generation Kits which are primarily Open loop control, Under a closed loop system a TAP is made redundant.

The latest Sequential Systems come under the 5 Gen class, and have a seprate ECU Control unit which overrides the OEM car ECU.

For basic Starts- Easy modifications to extract the best performance are :

1) Cooler Air Intake
2) Platinum Plugs or Super 4 Bosch, Although a multi Prong plug will not neccessarily create a Heavy spark, it will last longer and will require less Gap adjustments.
3) Throttle-Air Filter cleaning at regular intervals of 5000 Km.

Now for the serious burners;

1) Cold Air Intake System.
2) Enlarged Throttle.
3) Powerful Ignition Coil, with High Cap Spark Wires
4) Iridium or Platinum Plugs

For the Major Mods;

1) Sequential Injection Kit with ECU Controller


Although you can have a TAP processor installed, its use becomes negated with a Seprate ECU controller.

Oh wow! thanx for the information bro. Can please be more descriptive with the stuffs like enlarged throttle and sequential injection kit with ecu controller and their outputs and prices.

[wolfinstein]

Very Very Expensive...! lol

An enlarged throttle has to be customised, since it has to be made in order for the calculated Ratio you are looking at, plus also at the same time it should not be large enough so as to not fit in the engine space bay.

Sequential Injection systems are now becoming common, The range starts at 75,000 for a Sequential 4 injection Kit complete with ECU Controller.

However The models available in India are not AI ready in terms of Coupling along with the Car OEM ECU unit. They act as Stand alone engine management.

Early next year, you should see more 5th generation Systems coming in, with the New emmissions norms approaching.

TAP processor is for around 2000-3000 rupees depending on Make, a chinese one is cheaper provided its compatible.

Iridium Plugs are for around 650 per plug and Platinum at around 400.

A Cold Air Intake system can be created with a Air Scoop, but the added costs of a Fibre top bonnet can price to around 10,000-15,000.

A K n N filter mod with Cooler spacing extension will cost around 5000-7000 including the filter itself.

I don't know how much would an MSD ignition Coil and Heavy Wires cost.

I'm pretty much happy with my Stock 1.4 XETA- All I do is to clean the Filter/Throttle and Spark Plugs every 5000, and my performance along with FE are great.

[Gangsta]

Originally Posted by wolfinstein

Very Very Expensive...! lol

An enlarged throttle has to be customised, since it has to be made in order for the calculated Ratio you are looking at, plus also at the same time it should not be large enough so as to not fit in the engine space bay.

Sequential Injection systems are now becoming common, The range starts at 75,000 for a Sequential 4 injection Kit complete with ECU Controller.

However The models available in India are not AI ready in terms of Coupling along with the Car OEM ECU unit. They act as Stand alone engine management.

Early next year, you should see more 5th generation Systems coming in, with the New emmissions norms approaching.

TAP processor is for around 2000-3000 rupees depending on Make, a chinese one is cheaper provided its compatible.

Iridium Plugs are for around 650 per plug and Platinum at around 400.

A Cold Air Intake system can be created with a Air Scoop, but the added costs of a Fibre top bonnet can price to around 10,000-15,000.

A K n N filter mod with Cooler spacing extension will cost around 5000-7000 including the filter itself.

I don't know how much would an MSD ignition Coil and Heavy Wires cost.

I'm pretty much happy with my Stock 1.4 XETA- All I do is to clean the Filter/Throttle and Spark Plugs every 5000, and my performance along with FE are great.

thanks for such useful information on the mods.

75,000k will hurt a lot ouch!!

Well..!! I have a TAP installed in my Accent, now what about its combination with the Lambda sensor? I just have a TAP not Lambda. Planning to install a lambda. Any idea about this combination?

[wolfinstein]

TAP ideally does not function with a Lamda, unless you have a ECU Controller and Wire Harness.

TAP is needed for Open loop systems only, with a closed loop a Lamda Controller does the work.

[Gangsta]

Originally Posted by wolfinstein

TAP ideally does not function with a Lamda, unless you have a ECU Controller and Wire Harness.

TAP is needed for Open loop systems only, with a closed loop a Lamda Controller does the work.

Oh boy! from where you are getting such good informations? Do you have CNG shop or what? lol kidding.

Actually open and close loop thing had gone above my head. Can please be more descriptive on this part if possible.

I wanna remove sluggishness which i'm getting till 1.5K-1.6K RPM. Lambda will do the trick?

[wolfinstein]

A closed loop system performs much better than an Open loop control with TAP, since it modulates the Gas flow to the Throttle- by reading the Emissions of O2 in the Exhaust- High O2 means Rich Mix..poor performance, so the system automatically controlls the flow with the Stepper.

To increase the performance, I suggest you keep 3 things in Mind:

1) It will not be as fast as a Petrol in Intial Pick-ups, so you will have to get used to it.

2) Keep the Throttle and Air Filter Clean, Clean them up every 5000 KM, considering Delhi- It is advisable.

3) Check conditions of your Spark Plugs, an OEM may not be doing the Job well, so adjust the gap- also try a different plug- Say with my XETA-The OEM was champion or Bosch, At 15,000 KM I replaced them with Denso U Groove-OEM for Baleno and got better power,pick-up and efficiency.

This time around, after 1000 KM I will be moving to either Bosch Super 4 or Bosch Platinum.

Would also advise you to check the Valve clearence, if the plugs are getting sooted or excessive Black smoke is emitted.

A CNG vehicle needs care and pre-emptive maintainence to keep it Trouble Free.

And I don't run a CNG shop yaar, Just simple Intrest..!

[Gangsta]

cool bro..
I'm having problem that my car getting tuned at regularly like every 2 weeks. Should i go for the lamba to control that? also, if lambda will help me in getting more intitial pickup than what i'm getting now. because TAPs kicks at 1,5K RPM. I wanna finish this sluggishness below 1.5K RPM.
Any more suggessions on it?

[whymeonly]

Well, I have a Cedia with 7k on odo and I wish to get a CNG kit with Sequential Injection Kit with ECU Controller and other filter shilter mods. With what system I can hope for best performance on CNG.
Any suppliers since again and again the people doing it seem more important than the kit.
What size the cylinders come in?
I am in a hurry, before the petrol touches 60.

[phamilyman]

I suggest you speak to people at Green Gas first. Find out the reputed local installers.

I've not come across any lucknow CNG BHPian so far - our knowledge is all Delhi related. Plus CNG cedias are *quite* rare!

[whymeonly]

Respected sirs,
I have no hope in Lucknow and I would be getting it done from Delhi. I have already chosen suppliers for few filters, iridium plugs etc for performance boosting but yet can not find a CNG kit with sequential & ECU to match it all. Please help me find one fast we may be crossing 60 on petrol real soon.

[phamilyman]

Seriously, I have not yet seen a Cedia on CNG - though many Innovas run on CNG, as do even a couple of CRV.

Speak to wolfinstein. He has a lancer in the family - plus is CNG guru. He can guide you if at all there are competent cedia CNG installers.

[alias]

hi people i wanted to know if we can add cng/lpg to a turbo charged car

i am actually considering this very seriously as the prices of petrol are going to go up by rs 16 (read this today on the newspaper)

are there any mods required or some thing to do this

experts please comment

[wolfinstein]

My Home Town is Lucknow, I really wonder in Lucknow, if you really need a CNG kit-Since the Immediate Distances are small.

Remember whatever you choose, it has to be planned and your car prepared for the same.

Choosing Iridium plugs will alone not help, Infact all it will do it is give better spark but not much noticable difference- CNG will never ignite in the same propensity as a Petrol- You will have that lag.

To reduce the after effects, I suggest the following mods in the above post, they should work well for you- But trust me, Going Stock ain't that bad either.

1) Go for a Cooler Air Intake System
2) Spend your money on Sequential system from Landi Renzo.
3) Source a Better ignition coil along with Denso or NGK Iridium plugs.
4) Suggest a Free flow- To impress the folk in hazartganj or gomti nagar.

But before you forget let me advise you of the most important thing:

You may not be able to service the Sequential CNG kit in lucknow, till the time the dealerships don't start stocking the OBD and Scanner terminals. You will have to come at least once or twice in a year to get the system tuned in Delhi and ofcourse if issues happen, get it here either by Tow or disconnection of the complete kit.

If you ask me,I suggest you look for a Simpler mod along with a closed loop system.

[wolfinstein]

Originally Posted by alias

hi people i wanted to know if we can add cng/lpg to a turbo charged car

i am actually considering this very seriously as the prices of petrol are going to go up by rs 16 (read this today on the newspaper)

are there any mods required or some thing to do this

experts please comment

You can..! However your FE will go haywire on CNG. Then ofcourse you will also need a ECU Remap or a Standalone CNG ECU control system so the Ratio of Gas:Air is maintained for efficient O2 readings.

Ideally, a Sequential Kit is best suited, since it is possible to regulate the flow of Gas. However the Turbo will increase the Air flow into the Mix so that is why the Ratio will have to be balanced with precision.

Else you will face: Check Engine/ Back Fire / Miss Fire and at the max-Engine Head Damage.

For better view, Suggest you first try your hand at a FFE system, this will reduce the power loss to an extent.