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Old 25th March 2008, 10:08   #1
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Default Performance Mods for CNG Cars

Hello BHPians,
We have a lot of threads for Performance mods for Petrol and Diesel Cars. We have threads for CNG Advice.
But We don't have any thread for Performance Mods for CNG Cars.
CAI, headers, exhausts, ecu remaps are useful to increase the performance for the cars running on CNG?

What's is the effect in the performance with the car with Lambda Sensor and without Lambda Sensor?

View, Information, Comments are most welcome.

Note: BHPians if we have similar thread then please let me know i havnt found a similar thread.
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Old 25th March 2008, 13:45   #2
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One of our team-bhp members, haryan has a similar chip for his LPG kitted corsa, according to him, his car can give some competition to OHC in the initial. Try contacting him and do some search in the site and also is his threads/posts.

raj.
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Old 31st March 2008, 01:06   #3
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how about a CAI in CNG cars? If CAI can Effect Petrol then CAI can effect CNG too. with a Lambda Sensor installed.
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Old 31st March 2008, 10:11   #4
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Did you ever consider that:
Stock car on petrol's performance
>
CNG Car + [insert fundu farkle here]
and cost of petrol running < cost of CNG + amortized cost of farkles
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Old 4th April 2008, 10:48   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
how about a CAI in CNG cars? If CAI can Effect Petrol then CAI can effect CNG too. with a Lambda Sensor installed.
Any updates, it looks like i am too bitten by mod insect.
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Old 4th April 2008, 11:25   #6
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Easier mod to increase performance would be to take off the CNG kit & switch back to Petrol
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Old 4th April 2008, 11:45   #7
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i hope modding a cng is not like
i think for cngs we can have four stages of mods
stage 1 - removing the cng kit and switching to petrol
stage 2 - doing stage 1 mods as in a petrol car
stage 3 - doing stage 2 mods as in a petrol car
stage 4 - doing stage 3 mods as in a petrol car
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Old 4th April 2008, 13:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Easier mod to increase performance would be to take off the CNG kit & switch back to Petrol
Well said Ishaan, but it might be a story of Non-Lamda CNG kitted cars. In my car i get better performance in CNG rather then Petrol. This is something i have tested on highways. So for me switching to petrol isn't the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jassi View Post
i hope modding a cng is not like
i think for cngs we can have four stages of mods
stage 1 - removing the cng kit and switching to petrol
stage 2 - doing stage 1 mods as in a petrol car
stage 3 - doing stage 2 mods as in a petrol car
stage 4 - doing stage 3 mods as in a petrol car
Well said jassi, but you might be knowing some benifits of CNG over Petrol/Diesel.. Don't you ? Let's have some gyan...

- Combustion of CNG is smoother as it has high octane content. No additive is required to guarantee high quality performance. CNG has an anti knocking power which is superior than petrol/diesel. CNG’s high octane number permits the use of higher compression ratio which leads to significant enhancement in efficiency.
- CNG run car will increase the engine oil drain period, extending the life of the spark plugs and in turn the drivability and less expenditure on oil cost.
- Adulteration or spilling or theft is not possible, which is actually very easy in Petrol/Diesel
- CNG reaches the engine in pure form resulting in an improved air/fuel mixture and enables refined combustion.
- There is hardly any discharge of CO (Carbon mono-oxide) as compared to petrol and diesel since the exhaust fumes contains less harmful substances. The CO emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 40% less than diesel. Hydrocarbon emissions are 60% less than petrol and 50% less than diesel. Nitrous oxide emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 90% less than diesel. Carbon dioxide which contributes to global warming is less in CNG.
- The engine oil doesn’t dilute with a consequential reduction in servicing cost.
- Existing fuel system is retained which can work as an option in turn increasing the vehicle range.
- And above all, my monthly CNG bill is around 3K which was 12-13K otherwise in Petrol.

And yes, regarding mod stages about more then a million vehicles currently run on CNG, mostly in Italy, New Zealand and Canada apart from India. And they too have some seriously modded CNG running veichles taking full advantage of CNG's High Octane Numbers.

Last but not the least - what stage do you think a turbo-charged, 150hp, 1.4 TSI model, VW-Passat CNG is in ?


Cheers
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Old 4th April 2008, 13:14   #9
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Power loss in CNG mode is reduced considerably if the kit has automatic timing advancer.

The latest type of CNG/LPG kit is the one with sequential gas injection and gives even better performance. The kit comes with its own ECU and involves least interference with the vehicle's existing fuel supply system. Costs around Rs. 70,000/-. It reduces pollution even further.

Last edited by directinjection : 4th April 2008 at 13:16.
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Old 4th April 2008, 14:11   #10
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TAP is the fastest and cheapest way (1500rs)
TAP can be additional to DI cng kits.

before using TAP (timing advance processor) ...
check that yor engine get hot or not ..because TAP if not tunned properly , CNG will heat engine at higher than 6* advance timing setting.
it will drain water from coolentbox
more advance timing more pickup and lower on FE

i had a problem in Honda city so i wrote .
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Old 4th April 2008, 14:23   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_trace View Post
TAP is the fastest and cheapest way (1500rs)
TAP can be additional to DI cng kits.

i had a problem in Honda city so i wrote .

Can you elaborate how actually TAP works, is it something like tuning boxes ?
And what problem you had in your city ?
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Old 5th April 2008, 09:55   #12
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A lot of people say that even after removing the LPG kit from the car, its performance would have dropped from the original, is it so? :(
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Old 5th April 2008, 12:40   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiranhaBoy View Post
A lot of people say that even after removing the LPG kit from the car, its performance would have dropped from the original, is it so? :(
People using CNG/LPG on thier veichle have a tendency of not to take care of their veichle. I am very sure and personally experiencing no power loss as i do take care of my as a regular petrol car i.e regular services, daily 3-4 KM petrol commuting, do not avoid any type small niggles.

It is valid in those cases which do not take care of their cars.
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Old 5th April 2008, 13:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
Can you elaborate how actually TAP works, is it something like tuning boxes ?
And what problem you had in your city ?

well its not like tuning box but box has different switches by which we can set diff. timing advance for spark shots.
very high advanced timing means more quick pickup and high CNG consumption and tendency to get engine heat problem in lower RPM and lower gear (when usually knocking takes place in petrol engine)

My '99 honda city has
1st setting 12 degree advance timing .gr8 pickup at even 196000kms done
but engine got hot in just 2 kms drive test
then i have tried 9,8,6 degrees then set to 6 degrees now car is not getting hot.

kit installer said this only happens in OLD gen cars like type 1 honda but not in type 2

so install it and set and check diff . setting and adjust required timing advance
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Old 5th April 2008, 20:32   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Easier mod to increase performance would be to take off the CNG kit & switch back to Petrol
What if your running is more than 100 km a day? I think everybody can't afford it. We do have few things in the mkt for increase the performance for the car in CNG. Hehe My car is already modded for the petrol. Basic mods, Universal Twin Green Cone and Exhaust. Got very good results from this. But again my running came to 100-150 km per day. So, i again have to switch over to CNG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
Any updates, it looks like i am too bitten by mod insect.
Yeah, i have done it. Please read my next post for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Did you ever consider that:
Stock car on petrol's performance
>
CNG Car + [insert fundu farkle here]
and cost of petrol running < cost of CNG + amortized cost of farkles
You are absolutely wrong in this part. Performance wise, stock petrol > normal CNG fitted car.
But, CNG car can hit back hard. Just the matter of few performance mods like timings, fuel air ratios, ecu remaps.
Just got very much busy so couldnt got time to search for more.
Price wise and maintaining a CNG car is always much much cheaper than a petrol one.
Petrol in delhi is around 45-47 Rs running 100 km on big engines like 1.5-1.6L how much mileage will it give ? 10-12-13 kmpl max for a stock car.
for 100 km a day you need to spend 400-500 Rs a day.

What about CNG? Kit will cost you around 40k including 14 KG cyl.
CNG is Rs 18.90 per KG in Delhi.
My cost for CNG on my car, Rs 1.10 Per KM on AC.
For 100 km just 100-110 Rs spent a day.

Big difference mate. Petrol costs me 5 times the cost of CNG. In this huge difference, i had already covered up the cost for my kit and now enjoying my car.

Please Read Below about the costing for a modded CNG car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jassi View Post
i hope modding a cng is not like
i think for cngs we can have four stages of mods
stage 1 - removing the cng kit and switching to petrol
stage 2 - doing stage 1 mods as in a petrol car
stage 3 - doing stage 2 mods as in a petrol car
stage 4 - doing stage 3 mods as in a petrol car
It is not a pain to mod a CNG car mate Just right tuning and right devices will do the trick and it will surely reduce your cost too.

Lambda, Timing Advancer along with ECU remap (by a skilled person) will make it a boom. Even if double the amount of CNG will burn (which is an extreme case) due to ECU remaps n tuning etc, still my costing will be half the cost of petrol and ofcourse it can beat a petrol one in performance too. Because in Petrol we cannot make our car a 4-5 KMPL mileage car. Can we?

Corrent me if i'm wrong bro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
Well said Ishaan, but it might be a story of Non-Lamda CNG kitted cars. In my car i get better performance in CNG rather then Petrol. This is something i have tested on highways. So for me switching to petrol isn't the solution.


Well said jassi, but you might be knowing some benifits of CNG over Petrol/Diesel.. Don't you ? Let's have some gyan...

- Combustion of CNG is smoother as it has high octane content. No additive is required to guarantee high quality performance. CNG has an anti knocking power which is superior than petrol/diesel. CNG’s high octane number permits the use of higher compression ratio which leads to significant enhancement in efficiency.
- CNG run car will increase the engine oil drain period, extending the life of the spark plugs and in turn the drivability and less expenditure on oil cost.
- Adulteration or spilling or theft is not possible, which is actually very easy in Petrol/Diesel
- CNG reaches the engine in pure form resulting in an improved air/fuel mixture and enables refined combustion.
- There is hardly any discharge of CO (Carbon mono-oxide) as compared to petrol and diesel since the exhaust fumes contains less harmful substances. The CO emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 40% less than diesel. Hydrocarbon emissions are 60% less than petrol and 50% less than diesel. Nitrous oxide emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 90% less than diesel. Carbon dioxide which contributes to global warming is less in CNG.
- The engine oil doesn’t dilute with a consequential reduction in servicing cost.
- Existing fuel system is retained which can work as an option in turn increasing the vehicle range.
- And above all, my monthly CNG bill is around 3K which was 12-13K otherwise in Petrol.

And yes, regarding mod stages about more then a million vehicles currently run on CNG, mostly in Italy, New Zealand and Canada apart from India. And they too have some seriously modded CNG running veichles taking full advantage of CNG's High Octane Numbers.

Last but not the least - what stage do you think a turbo-charged, 150hp, 1.4 TSI model, VW-Passat CNG is in ?


Cheers
Hoho!! really enjoyed reading this one. I have 2 queries for you bro.
1. Seriously modded CNG vehicals? What type of Mods? Share some gyan on that part too.
2. One should change engine oil after every 7000-8000k km. I do change it. Now my baby had done 79k KM. CNG Installed at around 27-28k KM. I don't remember but it was something like that. Ran my babe around 50k km old on CNG, Still when i switch over to petrol it is WOW

Now, I had installed a Timing Device for CNG, Not Lambda but a Timing Device. It is good, Oh man, lemme cross 1.5k RPM on CNG and then zoom, Not as good as petrol but not bad either. This Lag till 1.5k RPM. I wanna finish this thing too. For that i'm planning for a Lambda, I think it will finish this lag till 1.5k RPM too. What do you say?
I think Lambda + Advancer (Device which optimize the timing for CNG) will do the trick.


I'm seriously thinking to modify my baby Performance wise on CNG. In 2005-2006 Lambda sensors were not available, nor i had knowledge about this sensor in those days. So, my Baby was running just on CNG.


Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Power loss in CNG mode is reduced considerably if the kit has automatic timing advancer.

The latest type of CNG/LPG kit is the one with sequential gas injection and gives even better performance. The kit comes with its own ECU and involves least interference with the vehicle's existing fuel supply system. Costs around Rs. 70,000/-. It reduces pollution even further.
70k Rs is too much for this ECU thing. I had installed an Advance Timer Device worth Rs 2300, I'm not sure what it exactly do but the guy who installed it said, it optimises the timing for the vehicals running on CNG. I really like it, really Power loss is not much i cant even feel if my car is on cng or petrol but after 1.5k rpm.

Last edited by Gangsta : 5th April 2008 at 20:39.
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