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Old 8th May 2008, 13:06   #1
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Default Can we turbo charge a Palio 1.2?

After reading hundreds of posts about people turbo charging their cars, I am haunted by one question. Can we turbo charge the Palio 1.2?

I know that it is technically possible, but then why don't people do so. We see so many Swifts, Lancers, Civics, Zens, Esteems etc being turbo charged.

The reason to TC a Palio 1.2 is simple:

01. 1.2 lacks low end torque badly.
02. Power (72 bhp) is kinda good considering that the Swift DDiS' 75bhp.
03. Increase in FE?

Can the gurus throw some light on this including:

01. Expected power after TC
02. Expected torque after TC
03. VGT possible?
04. If FGT, what should be the threshold RPM?
05. Effect on FE
06. Cost of accessories / installation
07. Good knowledgeable installers
08. Life of the engine
09. Any after effects
10. Reliability.

I hope you guys would help me out in understanding all the above. Thank you very much.
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Old 8th May 2008, 13:21   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
The reason to TC a Palio 1.2 is simple:

01. 1.2 lacks low end torque badly.
02. Power (72 bhp) is kinda good considering that the Swift DDiS' 75bhp.
03. Increase in FE?
Only problem is that you will have to install the turbo in the boot . There is hardly any space in that engine bay of the Palio.

Quote:
01. Expected power after TC
02. Expected torque after TC
03. VGT possible?
04. If FGT, what should be the threshold RPM?
05. Effect on FE
06. Cost of accessories / installation
07. Good knowledgeable installers
08. Life of the engine
09. Any after effects
10. Reliability.
1. Depends on what psi you are looking out for. Safely, if you went with 6 psi you should be looking at a 20-30 bhp increase on the wheels.

2. No way to measure 1 & 2 without dynoing it. But your torque will definitely improve a lot.

3. Possible. But no one has done it in India. Plus setting up the electronics for a VGT could pose a problem as most tuners are new to this concept of tcing.

4. Depending on the turbo, you could get it to provide boost from 2,000 rpm all the way to redline. For that you would need a small but quick spooling turbo.

5. Depends on your driving. But do expect it to go down a bit if you are pushing it hard. Advantage is due to the higher torque you will get an improvement.

6. Anywhere between 1-1.25L for your application with all BRAND NEW parts. That is turbo, intercooler, bov, manifold, piping etc.

7. Do a research.

8. Life of the engine will be compromised. But by the time the engine begins to act up you would have already upgraded to another car .

9. Yes, the shoving back into the seat and the big grin on your face when you stack up against the 1.6 palio's

10. Depends on the choice of parts and the professionalism of installation. If done right, one should not have any problems. If done wrong, you have will have lots of wrinkles on your forehead.

Last edited by GTO : 19th March 2012 at 13:41. Reason: Only 2 smilies per post are permitted
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Old 8th May 2008, 13:31   #3
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just curious , wouldnt bolting on a 1.6 be easier ?
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Old 8th May 2008, 13:40   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
just curious , wouldnt bolting on a 1.6 be easier ?
Subject to availability. Turbos can be ordered anytime. While you need to wait for a 1.6 to crash to get its engine into the open market .
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Old 8th May 2008, 13:45   #5
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Actually 1.2's engine bay has good space for mods, whereas 1.3/1.9D, 1.6 engine bays are cramped!
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Old 8th May 2008, 13:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Anywhere between 1-1.25L for your application with all BRAND NEW parts. That is turbo, intercooler, bov, manifold, piping etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
just curious , wouldnt bolting on a 1.6 be easier ?
Looks like buying a 1.6 is easier than TCing a 1.2 .

The entire exercise is worth only if the total cost is less than 50k. For 1-1.25L, it is not worth it.

Last edited by sushanthr77 : 8th May 2008 at 13:58.
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Old 8th May 2008, 14:01   #7
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Would that fit? Would all the bolts fall into place? I am not sure any one has done that yet.
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Old 8th May 2008, 14:03   #8
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Under 50k you can go in for a complete good FFE + CAI and a ecm from Race Dynamics.
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Old 8th May 2008, 14:03   #9
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This will be a good thing if it can be done. But atleast on this forum, i haven't heard of any turbo palios. But space is a problem as mclaren pointed out.
Also honda/suzuki parts (stock) can handle exta power after boost. So you should be careful.
May be if can find space by relocating radiators etc space can be solved. Manifold has to be custom made.
Also is there any ECU that can be used alonside Palio ECU?

The last time i heard of a non japanese car boosted was a Chevy Optra. I don't know whether that car exists now!!

so on an average 7/10 points that you need are quite complex or difficult to be done.
But if it can be done, it would be a great thing!!
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Old 8th May 2008, 14:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
The entire exercise is worth only if the total cost is less than 50k. For 1-1.25L, it is not worth it.
To get a build under 50k you will have to use all second hand parts. Which will not be reliable. And certainly not worth taking the risk. But it can be done.

Quote:
Would that fit? Would all the bolts fall into place? I am not sure any one has done that yet.
If I am not wrong, the mounts on both the engines are different. Which means that one has to make custom mounts to make this engine fit. Then there is the gearbox too. The gearbox in the 1.2 will not be enough to hold the power put down by the 1.6L unit. Besides, getting an aftermarket clutch for the palio is like landing on the moon with a concorde. So one needs the 1.6L unit along with the gearbox to begin with. Finding this is also extremely difficult.

Quote:
Under 50k you can go in for a complete good FFE + CAI and a ecm from Race Dynamics.
Definitely. But you certainly wont get the kind of gains you get with a tc. Imagine you getting a FFE, P&P, ECU all for about 50k and getting a bhp increase of 10-15 tops.

Like kutlee has mentioned, exhaust manifold has to be custom made as there are none available off the shelf for the palios. As far as the electronics are concerned upto 5psi I think the stock ECU should be able to handle. If not Rdk's ECU is the only choice.

But only those who own a turbo car know its worth (of spending lots of $$$$). Ask ford rocam, viper, alias, psycho and vikram.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 8th May 2008 at 14:27.
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Old 8th May 2008, 17:40   #11
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You'd be far better off with selling the Palio 1.2 and buying a used 1.6. Never try to modify an engine that is seriously underpowered to start with, and has a more powerful variant.
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Old 8th May 2008, 19:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Never try to modify an engine that is seriously underpowered to start with, and has a more powerful variant.
GTO, Palio 1.2 has fairly good power (72 BHP), pretty adequate for Indian driving conditions.

But, Stile 1.1 is underpowered for sure!
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Old 8th May 2008, 20:12   #13
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I think GTO did not mean power in isolation, but when taken with the weight (Power to Weight Ratio).

A WagonR has only 64 bhp, but since it weighs only 850kgs (Vxi), the PWR is 0.075. For a Palio with 72 bhp and weight of 1000kg (not sure of exact weight, but it is more than 1ton for sure), the PWR is only 0.072.

So, even with 8bhp more in the Palio, the PWR is lesser, resulting it in being underpowered comparitively.
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Old 8th May 2008, 20:39   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I think GTO did not mean power in isolation, but when taken with the weight (Power to Weight Ratio).

A WagonR has only 64 bhp, but since it weighs only 850kgs (Vxi), the PWR is 0.075. For a Palio with 72 bhp and weight of 1000kg (not sure of exact weight, but it is more than 1ton for sure), the PWR is only 0.072.

So, even with 8bhp more in the Palio, the PWR is lesser, resulting it in being underpowered comparitively.
Wagon-R isnt underpowered so is the Palio. AT higher speeds palio would be better owing to better aerodynamics. Its adequate but not fast and not underpowered for sure in the India context.
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Old 9th May 2008, 09:00   #15
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Well, for the weight it lugs around, IMO the Palio1.2 is underpowered.
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