Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th June 2008, 16:08   #16
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

I can't really keep getting the Jeep to Bangalore, so I will have to find some local resource to work on the Jeep.

If the brake booster can be reused with disc brakes, I think I will start with that.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2008, 16:13   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,006
Thanked: 645 Times
Default

The disc brake conversion is really recommended. The caliper assembly is the same as that of a Sumo, so a set of used ones will be really cheap. Get new knuckle arms and rotors, a competent mechanic, get an inline booster (by elgi) get a GP brake valve, (all of which should cost you about 14K) and have yourself a reliable jeep.
The brakes on the 340 can get really scary in the rains and post rain. I still remember using the brakes once, the jeep swinging wildly to the right and the Zen guy coming towrds me literally getting a heart attack and going off the road to avoid me!!!! Man those brakes stink.
Beboy

Last edited by jyobeb : 6th June 2008 at 16:20.
jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2008, 16:36   #18
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,900
Thanked: 2,492 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Samurai, in wet drum brakes are pretty useless. Ask any old Fiat owner, every time you splashed water you had to keep pumping to dry the brakes.
Discs are the way to go.
+1 Have had personal experience in our Premier Padmini.

Samurai, go for the booster kit especially if it allows you to add the discs later on, if not then get the complete setup later when time & money permits.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2008, 10:15   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,456
Thanked: 1,798 Times
Default Power/Booster/Disc Brakes

Hi Guys,

I think there is no need to upgrade the brakes.

Reason being

1) If you understand a JEEP
a) its not designed to go beyond 50Kmph
b) Does not even handle like the worst car driven
c) Why do you want to go fast.....in a JEEP
d) Why doesn't any one suggest a CAR owner to buy Taller tyres to improve ground clearance.

2) The complication
a) Getting the new knuckles
b) Setting up the booster and new pedals, firewall has to be tinkered.
c) Fine-Tuning the modification
d) New Brake LINES
e) Takes up leg room and space in the Engine Bay.
f) No Engine Power - No Braking. I have towed a drowned M&M Classic 30Kms and the Classic had no Brakes (Booster & Disc were not working as the engine was drowned)

3) Wet Condition --
a) Park the vehicle on a slope and let the water drain
b) drive and pump the brakes to dry up the drum.

I would suggest you go in
1) MM540 Drums
2) Add Booster
3) Upgrade to Disc-Brakes

Personally I think safety is an attitude, If we know our equipment, solves half our problems.

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2008, 10:38   #20
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1) If you understand a JEEP
a) its not designed to go beyond 50Kmph
b) Does not even handle like the worst car driven
c) Why do you want to go fast.....in a JEEP
d) Why doesn't any one suggest a CAR owner to buy Taller tyres to improve ground clearance.
Arka, my main problem is applying brakes when it is standstill on the slightest of incline. I can't simply place my foot on the brake to stop it from rolling, I literally have to press it really hard to stop it from rolling. Will 540 drums help me there or do I need boosters too?
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2008, 18:11   #21
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
So you all suggest disk brakes with booster? What is the approximate cost of this mod?
I bought the OEM conversion kit for 10K from Mahindra authorized outlet in chennai. It included all the parts, including the Booster, Disc/Rotors, pads, calipers, hanging brake pedal, hose kit, dust shield, front hubs, etc.

The booster is powered buy a small pump attached behind the alternator so you will also need to buy a new/used alternator which adds to the cost. Since I was changing my engine as well, the engine guy threw in the alternator with the pump.

One thing to keep in mind is that when I bought the jeep originally it had very cheap brake pads and the braking was horrible. Before i did the disc brake conversion, I changed the pads to more expensive OEM quality pads and there was a huge difference. Changing pads is cheap so maybe worth a try before you invest a lot of money on the disc brake upgrade.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2008, 14:38   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

I found a workshop about 250 meters from my house who services Force Motors as well as Mahindra. He is not an authorised A.S.S, but had a Judo, couple of Tempo travellers and a Mahindra under repair.

Since today is formals day at work, I was in business casuals (that's formal enough in my company). I got instant reception from the garage owner, who appears to be a decent guy. When I complained about the brakes, first thing he says is do you have another modern car. When I said yes, he said that's why you feel the brakes are hard. After swallowing that rebuke, I asked him to check the drums and brake pads closely. Also, the leaky joint at the radiator hose needs to be re-soldered so that the overflow coolant tank can work.

As I started walking back home, I immediately sensed a change in weather. I guess it is never felt when you are inside the car. I felt it could rain within 20-40 seconds, and I didn't have an umbrella. I ran like hell, within 100 meters I noticed that both laces on my formal shoes had come off. I quickly tied it and again ran. As I was just 50 meters from home, it started raining. Now I sprinted hard, all that hard work on treadmill paying off. I was able to enter the house with limited damage.

Moral of story: Never leave home without Umbrella in coastal monsoon weather, especially if you are walking.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2008, 20:24   #23
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

I was hoping to get the Jeep by evening, but I didn't. The radiator didn't come back from the soldering shop.

BTW, the inner ball bearings were crushed and collar was broken in the left wheel drum. Getting the entire ball bearing set replaced. The right wheel drum needed greesing. Tomorrow they are opening the rear drums.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2008, 20:44   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
iceman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: melbourne/bangalore
Posts: 1,958
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
BTW, the inner ball bearings were crushed and collar was broken in the left wheel drum. Getting the entire ball bearing set replaced. The right wheel drum needed greesing. Tomorrow they are opening the rear drums.
ouch...that would also make a difference in your braking issue
iceman91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2008, 23:28   #25
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Samurai,

The drum brakes on your current Jeep should work reasonably well if they are in proper repair. Check all brake cylinders, overhaul if necessary, turn all drums on a lathe, replace all brake pads, flush the brake fluid. If you do all this your brakes should work and hold your jeep on any incline, etc. And please do not use junk yard parts if you don't want junk yard performance.

If you do go in for the complete disc brake setup like a Classic, then it should have the proportioning valve as part of the brake system. Typically the valve is a the outlet of the master cylinder. It would definitely be dangerous without this valve, as the rear wheels would lock up prematurely. This happened to me somewhere outside Shimla on a wet road. I hit the brakes coming around a sharp curve and the Jeep spun around about 180 degrees and there was a steep drop on both sides of the road.

Regards,

Gaurav
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2008, 23:38   #26
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Well, monsoon has finally caught up at my place. Next 4 four months will be very wet, rains here are really heavy. Now I heard drum brakes can lose their effect when they gets wet. Does it happen only if I try to ford rivers (not that I would) or even under severe rains? If it is the latter, I have more reason to worry.

Some more questions:

1) If I have to do this in phases, can I start with brake boosters first? Say only install the vacuum booster to reduce the effort in pressing the current brakes. Can this be reused when I switch to disc brake?

You don't do this. The drums are not designed to be used with a booster.

2) Since this is a diesel Jeep, I will need a vacuum pump. Nitrous has suggested belt driven vacuum pump, is that a Mahindra OEM item I can get on order? What about this belt-less Safari pump suggested by Ignazio?

Alternators with integral vacuum pumps are standard fitment for M&M Jeeps. Same in TATA vehicles.

3) The disc brake kit for CJ3B or CJ340, what does it contain? Does it come with new hanging type pedals, proportioning valve, brake lines, disk brakes, rotors, etc., or I need to buy each item separately? Any trouble mating it with existing vacuum booster?

I found that adding hanging pedals & a booster unit to be too much work and decided against it. So I went with new knuckles, discs, dust shields, brake lines.

4) To add emergency brakes, does the stock rear drum brakes have the necessary mechanism or do I need to replace them?
The E brake on my 340 is on the rear prop shaft. But I have got rid of it, since I just do not use it.

Last edited by Samurai : 10th June 2008 at 00:02. Reason: highlighted the answers
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2008, 00:01   #27
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

Thanks Gaurav for the detailed info. I almost missed your answers since they were inside the quotes.

I am going to wait for the results of the brake repair, if I am happy, I may not proceed with any brake mods.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2008, 13:41   #28
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,314 Times
Default

Today I visited the mechanic. The radiator appears to be soldered well. The front brake drum service is complete.

The left rear drum was open, and guess what? One of the brake drum piston was jammed! That needs to be loosened and serviced, no new parts required, the brake pads were good.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2008, 14:48   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Blue Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Right here .
Posts: 1,632
Thanked: 330 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Today I visited the mechanic. The radiator appears to be soldered well. The front brake drum service is complete.

The left rear drum was open, and guess what? One of the brake drum piston was jammed! That needs to be loosened and serviced, no new parts required, the brake pads were good.

When this is set right , I think you will feel a marked improvement in the braking. The stock setup is enough to stop the vehicle on an incline (without having to stand on the brake pedals).
Blue Thunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2008, 18:12   #30
BHPian
 
Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Madras - India
Posts: 641
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Samu, I would suggest getting the entire braking system checked in order to resolve all issues. Atleast this way you can assertain the actual braking performance. What ever you decide (in terms of modifying the braking system), keep in mind that any service and maintainance required has to be carried out in workshops in and around your area. The only advice I can give you is - Keep it Simple.
Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family Samurai 4x4 Vehicles 1469 6th July 2017 14:42
Toyota upgrading Fortuner's brakes. Comparison pics added! dilipkumar7278 Technical Stuff 42 17th February 2015 15:26
Retarder in Volvo B7R buses (air-brakes / jake brakes) sfilinto Commercial Vehicles 12 30th March 2010 00:55
FIAT Adventure 1.6 Sports - Upgrading form Drum to Disc Brakes hrsraghav Modifications & Accessories 17 28th August 2009 10:55
CJ340 conquers the hill... Samurai 4x4 Excursions 29 11th August 2008 22:06


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:49.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks