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Old 17th March 2009, 18:00   #61
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Sameel, one of the lovely features of TBHP -- as compared to most other forums -- is that the search function actually works.

This is where you've said the Elantra CRDi runs 7 psi in stock form.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/871455-post53.html


And this is where you've said that boost controller give extra 'feul' into the engine.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/921321-post57.html


So you see, these aren't random comments.

I'm going to ask you nicely to check what you post, because believe you me it comes back to bite you in the behind. And if you want to go and get banned, no problem. But please try and post true information
Looking forward to a reply from sameel ..
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Old 18th March 2009, 15:01   #62
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I placed an order for the Pete's tuning box last week. One box came in last week itself but proved defective. Finally got one fitted today. I have driven about 10 Km (through thick bumper to bumper traffic) since fitting it.

First impressions:
No smoke (I have not yet fitted the green cotton filters).
Engine is crisper (not smoother, not rougher, but each firing is distinctly felt - I wonder whether the Pete's box retards the injection & firing).
Car pulls better from below 1K rpm!
Beyond 2k rpm it is a rocket.

I have to change my driving style ASAP and change my tyres - yesterday.

I will have to wait for a longer drive on better roads to figure this box out.

Cheers,
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Old 23rd March 2009, 11:46   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper View Post
@ Invinsible - "It's done at four season's, tardeo they deal with Pete's products, who does the custom code remap, UK."

Pls check with Pete's. Four Seasons is no longer their distributor.

Viper
Yep Four Seasons no longer does Pete. (Custom code) But they do offer MTM remap for Rs. 44,000, K&K filters, extra, They also provide a sprintbooster for Rs. 18,000.

Felt the costs were too high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Hi,

I decided to go with the Pete's tuning box rather than a re-map for the following very simple reasons.

1. I understand that the re-map has to be done perfectly by a very competent person.

2. Re-remapping, or un-remapping if you will, is well nigh impossible. On the other hand a Pete's box can be disconnected by me, making the car stock again!

3. GTO and my regular independant mechanic could not stress enough on the inadvisability of fiddling with the Skoda's electricals and electronics. (That includes no Lightforce bar and lights.)

I popped into the dealer for Pete's in Hyd and placed an order for the tuning box. It costs Rs.31,200/- and should be here in two days.

Cheers,
Ravveenddra What design spoiler have you choosen? (there is a design with a flat srip that sits right on the boot edge and sticks to it end to end, and there is another design which has a contact only at the two ends with visible 3inches of space between the spoiler and the boot) and how much did you order the same from Skoda. Which dealer?

GTO/ Others do you feel this way regarding Remaps vs tuning box for Laura, (tuining box being prefered), I could not locate your post that mentions this? I was planning for a Remap from "Kiirus" this weekend(145bhp). Cost about 22K compared to other options. Seems to be a good deal. Have searched for them on TBHP forum but there is no feedback, (neither negative or positive). They REMOVE the ECU and reprogram it.

Petes team was very fast to respond by phone, email and sms but quoted: Rs. 39,000 in an email to me last september through four seaons, which now quotes 44,000 for MTM, while the new pete dealer in mumbai Neville@Comart quoted 42,000. No discounts from either. Felt these were a bit high, for a situation were we do not actually get any hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I placed an order for the Pete's tuning box last week. One box came in last week itself but proved defective. Finally got one fitted today. I have driven about 10 Km (through thick bumper to bumper traffic) since fitting it.

First impressions:
No smoke (I have not yet fitted the green cotton filters).
Engine is crisper (not smoother, not rougher, but each firing is distinctly felt - I wonder whether the Pete's box retards the injection & firing).
Car pulls better from below 1K rpm!
Beyond 2k rpm it is a rocket.

I have to change my driving style ASAP and change my tyres - yesterday.

I will have to wait for a longer drive on better roads to figure this box out.

Cheers,
Any updates on your box performance, Ravv?

In the price range for me the options seem to be Kiirus 22K remap vs Pete 31.2K tuning box. MTM drove me away on pricing, Kiirus offer ends on March 31st. Am seriously not able to decide on either. Also ,am quite surprised to see no better pricing even in such a market situation.

Any other tuners that I should consider?

HELP needed.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 12:20   #64
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GTO just found your below pasted post. It's very detailed and explains a lot of what i was looking for, yet would like to know your take on my scene below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Fat chance! Allow me to explain why:

1.In the most basic explanation, a tuning box simply leads to more fuel being injected into the diesel engine. The scope of a remap is much wider : more diesel, higher turbo boost, timing etc.

2.A remap requires a high level of expertise in installation & local support. Something I donít believe Indian infrastructure is capable of yet, atleast in providing a consistent level of service on each remap sold across the country. Compare that to a powerbox which is tested by its manufacturer and sealed until delivery, and even post-installation. No fiddling around.

3.A powerbox can take me from 141 BHP to 170 BHP (C220). Is that enough? Remember, a powerbox has adjustable settings for more extreme usage too. A remap will give me probably an additional 10 Ė 15 more horses. However, the more the power, the more the stress on a diesel engine. Remember, if it were so simple, a manufacturer would sell the C220 in a higher state of tune from day one itself (don't bring up the new C, among other things it has an upgraded cooling system). However, the cars existing components & state of tune are designed to handle the power and keep the engine from harm, even in an extreme condition such as climbing a long ghat on a really hot sunny day with a full load of passengers. In a remapped C220 with 190 horses on tap, you can gauge the effect of 40% more horsepower on transmission / cooling etc. components in such conditions. There is a reason why I havenít boxed or mapped my car yet. If & when I do, it will be a powerbox running in setting 1 as the risk exposure is FAR lower. European cars aren't cheap to maintain, all hell breaks loose when they need repairs!

4.Euros have complex electronics from the factory itself. While a powerbox only leads to altered signals, a remap modifies the ECUs many settings & parameters.....a complex modification by any benchmark. I have yet to see one SINGLE powerboxed car with a problematic install (being how simple it is!). However, post-remap problematic cars are too many to count. Starting with Monkeys RS and his check engine light which wouldnít go for almost a year!

5.Powerbox = You can go back to stock whenever you want. What is the procedure for getting back to standard ECU tune after a remap?

6.When itís time to change the car, you could sell the tuning box and the car separately. A tuning box is not a wear & tear item. It will do on day 1000 the exact same thing that it did on day 1. You will understand that a remap canít exactly be sold separately on a floppy disk.

7.If something goes wrong with the powerbox, you can remove the box on the spot. Its a simple DIY. Good luck with your remapped car showing a hiccup / check engine light when you are with your family in the middle of nowhere.

8.There have been times when a dealer will simply reset your ECU at the time of some major work or a manufacturers ďsilent install of a new ECU tuneĒ. Translated = your ECU is back to stock. What is the cost of a re-remaping (there, I just invented a new term)?

9.Warranty claims : X5india hasnít made a warranty claim on his engine. Period. If & when he does, be assured that BMW will thoroughly study his engine and know that itís been remapped in a matter of minutes. It is NOT difficult to locate a remap when you want to. Remaps either overwrite manufacturer data or reside on an empty part of the chip. Manufacturers have VERY strict procedures before clearing warranty claims. And BMW does know their own car a little better than any aftermarket supplier would.

In consideration of the above-mentioned points, a powerbox is far better suited to someone who is looking at simpler mods / lesser risk for more power. However, if you are getting a bigger turbo, better intercooler, advanced fueling system and going for full-blown mods, then a remap is the way to go as it will consider all parameters and is totally customisable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
lets be frank here!! REMAP is Trouble. I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! ITS IN MY JOB TO FLASH AND RE-FLASH ECUs daily and test whether the interations done is working properly or not.

when any of the meets come up i will be glad to take a session on these so called modifications! there are good stuff and bad stuff. safe remaps also are there.

i am in a position to remap any vehicle provided i have its cable harness and HEX file. and a standard DCM!! but that will mean i have to use BOSCH LAB Equipments which i shouldnt and wont!

do ask for any clarifications. i will try to clear them . not in a position to start a seperate thread. am pretty lazy
Sameel what's your take on my scene mentioned below? have read your posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yep Four Seasons no longer does Pete. (Custom code) But they do offer MTM remap for Rs. 44,000, K&K filters, extra, They also provide a sprintbooster for Rs. 18,000.

Felt the costs were too high.

Ravveenddra What design spoiler have you choosen? (there is a design with a flat srip that sits right on the boot edge and sticks to it end to end, and there is another design which has a contact only at the two ends with visible 3inches of space between the spoiler and the boot) and how much did you order the same from Skoda. Which dealer?

GTO/ Others do you feel this way regarding Remaps vs tuning box for Laura, (tuining box being prefered), I could not locate your post that mentions this? JUST FOUND THAT PERTICULAR POST AS PASTED ABOVE. I was planning for a Remap from "Kiirus" this weekend(145bhp). Cost about 22K compared to other options. Seems to be a good deal. Have searched for them on TBHP forum but there is no feedback, (neither negative or positive). They REMOVE the ECU and reprogram it.

Petes team was very fast to respond by phone, email and sms but quoted: Rs. 39,000 in an email to me last september through four seaons, which now quotes 44,000 for MTM, while the new pete dealer in mumbai Neville@Comart quoted 42,000. No discounts from either. Felt these were a bit high, for a situation were we do not actually get any hardware.



Any updates on your box performance, Ravv?

In the price range for me the options seem to be Kiirus 22K remap vs Pete 31.2K tuning box. MTM drove me away on pricing, Kiirus offer ends on March 31st. Am seriously not able to decide on either. Also ,am quite surprised to see no better pricing even in such a market situation.

Any other tuners that I should consider?

HELP needed.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 15:35   #65
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I didnt think the sprint booster is worth spending money on. It just makes you feel that the car is more powerful by changing the signal from the accelerator pedal to the ECU.
It's like someone else flooring the pedal for you. Didnt make sense to me.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 18:52   #66
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Ravveendrra : Great to hear about your positive initial impressions.

@ ACM : I'd go for a petes box on the Laura. Tried & tested.
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Old 26th March 2009, 12:04   #67
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Thanks GTO for the feedback, have one more question for you & Ravveenddra and others who have either remaped their Skoda Laura or

Post Remap / Tuning box, does one need to use only Turbojet / Hi-Speed diesel or ExtraMile Diesel?

Currently for the Skodas of years 2006-2007 Skoda recommends only normal Diesel and strictkly instructs NOT to use Premium diesel.

While the Tuner whom I have been in touch with insists that post tuning the car would be able to take Premium Diesel and I should preferably use only Premium Diesel. Though normal diesel would not be a problem, performance would be noticed mainly with premium diesel.

Or rather would using premium diesel cause any problems?

Skoda Lauras for Year 2008 onwards are recommended to use Premium diesel - What changes would they have done?

The tuner mentioned that earlier the map would be detuned to work only with normal diesel and if premium were use it would result in unburnt diesel and increased heat and this is taken care of when one gets the car tuned and hence post tuning the car has the capacity to burn premium diesel.

Is this a valid argument?
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Old 26th March 2009, 12:53   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Thanks GTO for the feedback, have one more question for you & Ravveenddra and others who have either remaped their Skoda Laura or

Post Remap / Tuning box, does one need to use only Turbojet / Hi-Speed diesel or ExtraMile Diesel?
the car has the capacity to burn premium diesel.
Is this a valid argument?
From the various threads here on premium fuel and fuel quality, I understand that 'premium' Diesel oils in India are the same as regular Diesel with certain additives added to make it 'flow' better and clean the internals. Therefore, the fuel per-se remains the same, it only has 'detergents' and 'flow improvers' added.

Opel insisted that additives needed to be added. Skoda used to advise that additives/fuel premixed with additives not be used as it fouls the pumps and other components in the fuel system.. (There is a post somewhere about Mobil 2T oil fouling the system). The Laura has a complicated fuel injection system with 4 fuel pumps. I therefore would think twice before putting any thing into my fuel tank. I would of course prefer to put in Diesel oil with better calorific value if it were available, unfortunately the additives in 'premium' Diesel oils do not add to the calorific value. There are also several posts about how member's cars perform better & give better FE with regular fuel. I therefore will stick to the plain vanilla Diesel without any additives.

Cheers,
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Old 26th March 2009, 13:24   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Post Remap / Tuning box, does one need to use only Turbojet / Hi-Speed diesel or ExtraMile Diesel?
Unlike some premium petrols, where the octane rating is higher, premium diesel is EXACTLY the same as normal diesel. The only difference is that it will have some additives (including detergents).

I have consulted with several automotive engineers, including many from the big car brands. Not a single person has recommended premium diesels to me. Pure regular diesel is the way to go. I can't stress enough on the purity part.
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Old 26th March 2009, 15:58   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Unlike some premium petrols, where the octane rating is higher, premium diesel is EXACTLY the same as normal diesel. The only difference is that it will have some additives (including detergents).

I have consulted with several automotive engineers, including many from the big car brands. Not a single person has recommended premium diesels to me. Pure regular diesel is the way to go. I can't stress enough on the purity part.
+1 to that. I have recently installed the Pete's box plus Green filter on my Elantra and Peter himself said there is no need for premium diesel, the car is running perfectly on the regular brew.In fact, even when stock, everyone I consulted (including other Elantra owners, the previous owner of my Elantra as well as the Hyundai guys) said its best to stick to normal diesel.
The purity part is very essential, stick only to reliable pumps. Found this out the hard way when I had to refuel at the foodcourt pump on the Mumbai-Pune expressway, the car ran out of breath at 160 kph, the CEL came on and stayed on till I got it rectified by a hi-scan.

Last edited by maverick030581 : 26th March 2009 at 16:01.
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Old 27th March 2009, 00:12   #71
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just saw this thread today. sorry for the wrong info on stock PSi of elantra its. 1bar. .5bar is for gasoline engines. if we measure the Psi at intercooler outlet it will be 16Psi in elantra.( diesel and gasoline stock boost levels are different.)

the boost controllers post is not what i intended to say. it warrants or fools the ECU giving Fake control signal to wastegate which leads to increased boost forcing the ECU to deliver more fuel so as to meet the air fuel ratio to not cause misfiring or smoke!. while the tuning box fools the ECU directly to give more feul. the approach is kind of opposite.

sorry for the wrong postings my bad :(

@ACM REMAP will be detected. no matter what the tuners claim. ( when a problem comes up, if any Calibration engineers takes a simple look at the FCM codes they will know it. usualy a sporadic error code is set) and if the calibration engineer checks out the Injection control signal then

so the best deal is if your car is out of warranty period then go for the
Remap.
cheers!
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Old 27th March 2009, 02:02   #72
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As I mentioned earlier I have been using the remap on my fabia for last 18000kms now. Car has done 23000kms. During my second service I had made a complain of low pick up and mileage. This mainly happened coz of DPF(Diesel partical filter), EGR valve, and intake manifold choked due to carbon/soot.
Once they cleaned it during 2nd service with chemical cleaning, the pick up has improved tremendously. Much better than day one I had got the remap one. Mileage has gone high too by 15% or so.
The carbon accumulation is common with diesel cars. More so it happens often due to unburnt fuel and when you can see your car smoking under heavy acceleration. This is nothing but the unburnt fuel. With tuning box is some cars there is heavy smoke that is noticed initially. This is coz tuning box mainly changes fuel mapping to generate more power. Excessive smoke will lead to early soot/carbon.
My ECM has been diagnosed thoroughly during this process to check for errors. Luckily it has not been detected till now.
Compared to Remap a tuning box is always safer option but than everything has it's negative. Just like with remap there are chances of it being detected, tuning box there are chances of seeing excessive smoke.
There are advantages and disadvantages of whether it's remap or tuning box.
Tuning box being safer option, no doubt a remap would give better drive ability with changes to turbo boose as well. It all depends on what you looking for.

Here is a link that talks all about the VW diesel engine, their characteristics, modification, precaution and all.
The below link explains the carbon accumulation and care to be taken.
Cleaning the intake manifold of carbon build up Difficulty

I have tried both Diesel and hispeed diesel and have not noticed any change in performance. Hi speed diesel uses additives which are not healthy for PD engines. The injectors may become prone to stickiness and may be in longer run damage the fuel pump or so. I noticed more smoke coming out when used with hi speed diesel.
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Old 30th March 2009, 22:43   #73
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just thought i might share my sequence of mods on my Tdi. i started out with a P-Box tuning box, then added PP520 injector nozzels, did a EGR delete and the adaptation for more air, removed the tuning box as my fueling was being taken care of by the nozzels and went in for a Jeff Robertson[ rocket chip] stage 2 remap[ it required my ECU to be mailed to him in Redlion PA. Soon that was not enough, so out went the PP520 and in went a set of PP764s and a RC6 tune accompanied by a VNT17/22 hybrid turbo,2.5 ' passenger performance SS downpipe,boost factory SMIC with a perma cool fan behind it,southbend stage2 clutch and a intank lift pump from the PD.

i had earlier also put in ARP head studs which were good for upto 21psi but now i ve started to have a prob with 28psi and am going back to the original bolts.More stuff in the pipeline. will update when done. as far as this thread is concerned. i ve found much better performance from my remaps as compared to the tuning box and fortunatly have not experienced any ill effects.
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Old 31st March 2009, 08:19   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by air870 View Post
just thought i might share my sequence of mods on my Tdi. i started out with a P-Box tuning box, then added PP520 injector nozzels, did a EGR delete and the adaptation for more air, removed the tuning box as my fueling was being taken care of by the nozzels and went in for a Jeff Robertson[ rocket chip] stage 2 remap[ it required my ECU to be mailed to him in Redlion PA. Soon that was not enough, so out went the PP520 and in went a set of PP764s and a RC6 tune accompanied by a VNT17/22 hybrid turbo,2.5 ' passenger performance SS downpipe,boost factory SMIC with a perma cool fan behind it,southbend stage2 clutch and a intank lift pump from the PD.
That's some very nice stuff. Have heard great things about the clutch especially. How are you controlling the VNAT? BTW chances are that turbo is manufactured in India.
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Old 31st March 2009, 10:18   #75
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the VNT is ECU controlled, i had to specify the exact mods for jeff to load on the appropriate tune. forgot to add earlier that a 3bar map was also added. unfortunately the VNT 17/22 is a hybrid, i.e. a non standard Garrett and unlikely to be available here.
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