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Old 16th April 2010, 16:12   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
Harjeev, I too have converted to CNG recently. I'm running an Alto BS3 with a Lovato kit with TAP. It's been installed as an open loop (without the lambda control system). Now regarding to your queries:
Thanks for replying to my post
Quote:
1. A cylinder is always measured in water capacity. Yours is 65 ltrs and generally at around 190-200 bar you should be able to get around 8.5 kgs when empty. I too have a 65 ltr tank by Lizer
Thanks for clarifying this. I was thinking that theres something wrong with my cylinder. 8.5kg is the max that I've been able to fill an empty cylinder. So I guess that this is OK!!! :-)

Quote:
2. Generally the average improves by 40%-45% over a Petrol. I used to get 17kmpl on petrol so I get 25 km per kg on my Alto. I think your mileage of around 13 is good. If you are running a closed loop system, then your mileage might improve further marginally. Ensure you have installed the timing advancer, that way you should not feel much performance drop
An advancer is already there on the system and as you've said, I've not noticed any drop in pickup, even if its there its noticeable only slightly.
Regarding the average, I got about 13 initially by now over 869 kms(this I believe is a more accurate reading) , Ive averaged 15.1 km/kg which translates Rs.1.44 per km!!!

Quote:
3. No clue on the valve of the cylinder. IMHO, please use the one which came with the kit.
The valve's the same, we tested a different valve for a similar cylinder of the same make.

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4. Personally looking that the way the installer wrote the memo, I'm getting a feeling you could have found better installers than this. I cannot help you since I'm in Mumbai, but several others on this forum should be able go guide you.
Maybe the bill is a little not upto the mark but installation wise the guy did a good job. I am enclosing some pictures of the engine bay and the boot space!!!
I have driven the vehicle about 1500 kms since the install, and I am petty happy with the performance. No leakage, nothing. ALso I have received the updated RC endorsed with the CNG fittment and an alternate fuel. Now I have my office contacting the insurance company so that the CNG clause, if any, be added on the insurance policy, incase its a requirement.


Quote:
Some tips IMHO:
1. Ensure your spark plugs are clean and properly gapped.
2. Clean your air filter frequently (say every 2000 kms)
3. Don't accelerate hard with CNG at low RPM. Low end torque is reduced when you run on CNG.
4. If possible, change to a marginally thicker grade of engine oil. I am currently running 20w-40, and planning to move to 20w-50 castrol GTX. go semi-synth if possible.
Will keep the above in mind. Actually the vehicle will be going to the service station as its been about 9200 kms since the last service and I thing that we'll exhaust 800 kms in about a week-10 days. So will get it service then and tell the SA to do the above.




Hi Guys in Delhi
SAS has answered many of my queries, now NCR bhpians, Advise is needed!!!

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Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
  • I read somewhere that in the GM supplied kit they change the rear springs to manage the extra weight. Where do I get that done and how much should it cost (parts/ labor)?
  • I wish to get a IInd opinion on the installation. Can anyone recommend an installer, who wouldn't mind giving me unbiased advise!! Really need it!!!
Thanks & Cheers


Another thing that Ive observed, post the install the vehicle has started to heat more than it used to earlier. Is this normal???
I mean that earlier the coolant never used to get finished but now I have to add water every couple of days or 200-300 kms???
Is this normal in CNG??
Is there anything I can do, like use a better engine oil or a different brand of coolant???
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Last edited by harjeev : 16th April 2010 at 16:17.
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Old 16th April 2010, 19:25   #17
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The installation is nice, but there are certain pieces which could have done better, like the fuel switch near the dash, etc. Your mileage is great.. How much did you get with Petrol under same driving conditions? And yes, the savings are tremendous, my running cost is less than Re.1 per km, which is cheaper than a motorcycle It's only now that I can tell my Alto "Let's Go"

Regarding heating, yes CNG runs significantly hotter than petrol. When a liquid evaporates, it creates a cooling effect, which is absent in CNG and LPG. Just imagine how much additional cooling 1 litre of evaporating petrol provides. The most vulnerable parts are the pistons and valves. We need to switch to a semisynth and to a thicker viscosity. I'm currently running 20w40 MGO and I'm going to switch to 20w50 magnatec or gtx or mobil 1 5w50 if possible / available.

Also ensure you use a good quality glycol coolant mixing 50% water and 50% coolant. If your statement of topping the coolant every 2-3 days is true, then you better check for leaks... You shouldn't lose coolant that soon, unless the coolant-to-water mix isn't correct.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 10:50   #18
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Question Expert Opinion Required - Plsss

My first ever post on tbhp and id try to make it very clear to the goodfellas out here,

I am planning to buy a 2nd hand sedan, Budget aprox 4 lcs.
I already own a maruti estillo and have owned a wagon r - so basically ive spent significant years of my life with hatchbacks and would luv to have a sedan too.

Now heres the thing - i guess 4 lcs for a 2nd hand sedan is a decent amount HOWEVER whatever sedan i buy i wana immediately fit a CNG kit. The petrol prices @ 60 / ltr is way too much :(.

The options that i m considering are Chevorlet aveo / optra, Maruti Dzire / SX4, Honda City.

I need your help - seriouslyyy. Its getting very confusing now. What car would be the best option for CNG conversion. After the cng fit i dont wana spend time going back n forth to the garage. So the goodfellas out here pls help me out with clear indication on pros & cons... thanks heaps
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Old 9th January 2011, 12:04   #19
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

UPDATE:
Hey guys I have been running CNG in my OPTRA for the past 22k kms now. And now it has crossed 100k kms on the ODO. (Installed CNG when had done 78k kms)
Yesterday my vehicle did a DEL_JAIPUR_DEL trip and in 1 cylinder (9.5-10kg gas I get in a 14 kg cylinder) the vehicle was able to reach Jaipur which is 250 kms.
I am seriously dumbfounded but I spoke to the driver and he said that they filled Gas at Delhi and the Ggas finished at Amer Fort in Jaipur. The trip meter reading was 253 kms approx.
Now I wish to ask How is this possible
The vehicle gives me an avg of 15 with ac in Summers and approx 17-18 in winters. How can it change so much???
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Old 9th January 2011, 12:22   #20
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
UPDATE:
Hey guys I have been running CNG in my OPTRA for the past 22k kms now. And now it has crossed 100k kms on the ODO. (Installed CNG when had done 78k kms)
Yesterday my vehicle did a DEL_JAIPUR_DEL trip and in 1 cylinder (9.5-10kg gas I get in a 14 kg cylinder) the vehicle was able to reach Jaipur which is 250 kms.
I am seriously dumbfounded but I spoke to the driver and he said that they filled Gas at Delhi and the Ggas finished at Amer Fort in Jaipur. The trip meter reading was 253 kms approx.
Now I wish to ask How is this possible
The vehicle gives me an avg of 15 with ac in Summers and approx 17-18 in winters. How can it change so much???
It is easily possible. Firstly you get better averages in winters because of 3 things:
1. You don't use the AC that frequently, thus improving average
2. The air is more dense
3. Humidity levels are lower thus aiding combustion

I too face differences between winters and summers, as well as between highway and city drives. In summers I get around 24km/kg in my Alto, however in winters I get around 25km/kg. In cities, I get around 24km/kg while on the highway, it goes to around 29-30km/kg
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Old 9th January 2011, 13:48   #21
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Default Re: Expert Opinion Required - Plsss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_GODzila View Post
Now heres the thing - i guess 4 lcs for a 2nd hand sedan is a decent amount HOWEVER whatever sedan i buy i wana immediately fit a CNG kit. The petrol prices @ 60 / ltr is way too much :(.
IMO, if you are considering only fuel savings, go for a diesel instead of converting a petrol to CNG. Maybe a Fiesta?. Reason? - Less tweaking around the engine, and hence more reliability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
Now I wish to ask How is this possible
The vehicle gives me an avg of 15 with ac in Summers and approx 17-18 in winters. How can it change so much???
Check this - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ng-better.html
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Old 10th January 2011, 10:33   #22
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
UPDATE:
Hey guys I have been running CNG in my OPTRA for the past 22k kms now. And now it has crossed 100k kms on the ODO. (Installed CNG when had done 78k kms)
Yesterday my vehicle did a DEL_JAIPUR_DEL trip and in 1 cylinder (9.5-10kg gas I get in a 14 kg cylinder) the vehicle was able to reach Jaipur which is 250 kms.
I am seriously dumbfounded but I spoke to the driver and he said that they filled Gas at Delhi and the Ggas finished at Amer Fort in Jaipur. The trip meter reading was 253 kms approx.
Now I wish to ask How is this possible
The vehicle gives me an avg of 15 with ac in Summers and approx 17-18 in winters. How can it change so much???

Very much possible. You could easily have gotten more than 10kg in winter. I got 11.8kg in my 14kg cylinder last night.

Highway average on CNG can be significantly higher than city.

Lack of AC usage.

Road conditions may have been conducive.
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Old 10th January 2011, 10:35   #23
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

harjeev, why dont u get a Lamda installed? It'll make a significant difference to your power and efficiency. Also, it won't require regular tuning.
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Old 10th January 2011, 15:04   #24
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps View Post
Very much possible. You could easily have gotten more than 10kg in winter. I got 11.8kg in my 14kg cylinder last night.

Highway average on CNG can be significantly higher than city.

Lack of AC usage.

Road conditions may have been conducive.
Thanks Deep. Whatever I do I never seem to get more than 10kgs in my 14kg cylinder. The problem is that we have a Maruti 800 which has a 12kg cylinder and in that vehicle too we get about 10kg of Gas. I have even changed the cylinder once, but of no avail,
Both the installations were done at the same workshop/ installer
Quote:
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harjeev, why dont u get a Lamda installed? It'll make a significant difference to your power and efficiency. Also, it won't require regular tuning.
Nnow that I have spent the cash on this kit and its not been even a year would it be prudent to change it now?
Also what kind of tuning needs to be done regularly? I have never taken it to the workshop except when the advancer goes for a toss. this has happened a couple of times.
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Old 10th January 2011, 22:31   #25
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

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Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
Thanks Deep. Whatever I do I never seem to get more than 10kgs in my 14kg cylinder. The problem is that we have a Maruti 800 which has a 12kg cylinder and in that vehicle too we get about 10kg of Gas. I have even changed the cylinder once, but of no avail,
Both the installations were done at the same workshop/ installer

Nnow that I have spent the cash on this kit and its not been even a year would it be prudent to change it now?
Also what kind of tuning needs to be done regularly? I have never taken it to the workshop except when the advancer goes for a toss. this has happened a couple of times.
The Lamda system can be added later in as well. You can get it between Rs. 1500 to Rs. 4000, depending upon the brand, etc. I too only went for the TAP without lamda because it's an easier and less complicated install, only downside is that you need to tune it depending upon weather and altitude changes (it's extremely easy to tune a CNG system: it's just like tuning a carburetor vehicle: once you learn the art, it's simple). The upside of lamda is that you don't need to tune the CNG system and it automatically adjusts the AFR depending upon the ambient conditions. The downside of lamda is that if it fails or if there is a problem, it can create more complications and occasionally you can also ruin your ECU / O2 sensor.

BTW, don't worry too much about the install. As long as it's giving you a good average and everything's ok, forget about it. Enjoy your CNG ride and over 63% lower running costs when compared to a petrol vehicle
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Old 10th January 2011, 22:33   #26
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Default Re: Expert Opinion Required - Plsss

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
IMO, if you are considering only fuel savings, go for a diesel instead of converting a petrol to CNG. Maybe a Fiesta?. Reason? - Less tweaking around the engine, and hence more reliability.



Check this - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ng-better.html
What exactly do you mean about diesel having more reliability? Have you used CNG extensively to make that opinion? There are several of us on the forum who have only had excellent reliability with their CNG systems. I too have used CNG for over 20k kms now and it's been an awesome experience.
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Old 11th January 2011, 05:03   #27
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

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The downside of lamda is that if it fails or if there is a problem, it can create more complications and occasionally you can also ruin your ECU / O2 sensor.
I have never heard of these two problems occuring due to a malfunctioning lambda. Any more details?
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Old 11th January 2011, 05:07   #28
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

@ Harjeev: As SAS correctly mentioned, you don't need to change the entire kit for it. It can be added later. There's a rotary knob kind of thing in the pic of the engine bay you've posted (6th from top) just above the E of Eco-tech. That is where you manually adjust the AFR. With a lambda, a box like the emulator and advancer is added and instead of the rotary knob you'll get a stepper motor. Since its not a very expensive item, why don't you give it a shot? Am pretty sure you'll stick to it.
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Old 11th January 2011, 20:49   #29
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I have never heard of these two problems occuring due to a malfunctioning lambda. Any more details?
My installer mentioned 2 specific cases where he faced problems. One was an Indica GLS whose ECU went kaput multiple times and finally he decided to run on CNG permanently (God knows how he manages to start his car every morning!!). The second case was a fiat palio.

While I agree these are few and far between, I decided against it and manually tune the vehicle to ensure things are simple, save some more moolah and reduce the complexities since I didn't have any prior experience using CNG and would be at a complete loss if there were any inadvertent complications. IMHO Lamda is the correct way to go since it ensures still lower emissions and even better average, but I decided to add the lamda later once I gained experience operating a CNG vehicle. My Alto was my first CNG vehicle and I converted it last April. I'll probably wait till this April and then add the lamda sensor.

Which car do you run on CNG and can you share the kit details? Thanks...
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Old 11th January 2011, 23:13   #30
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Default Re: CNG for Chevy Optra?

I had a Xeta also that went through multiple ECU changes under warranty. But the ECU used to go kaput due to faulty wiring rather than lambda. Just like the case you mentioned, it used to run fine on CNG but not petrol when ECU became damaged.

After that I've got a Lancer with a lovato kit including lambda and timing sensor. I get minimum 18km per kg gas these days in city driving.
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