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Old 24th June 2008, 09:12   #31
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Hi,

Your simplest options(in terms of install and time taken) would be a Signal Modifier(Tri-Phase for eg), Piggy Back Like Greddy and a Stand Alone ECU .

All the other options like closed ratio gearbox, Turbo etc will be way more expensive. You could also install adjustable Cam Gears and play with the cam timing to improve your bottom end although you will have to sacrifice a bit of your top end grunt in the process.

Viper

Last edited by viper : 24th June 2008 at 09:15.
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Old 24th June 2008, 10:27   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
....What I disagree with is that I don't think that you can get a replacement ECM to perform better at low rpm...
Folks, Would this be true? That you can't get a standalone ECM and map it to perform better at lower RPMS?

I am confused -- was planning on getting the RD Box to improve the low end torque in my MPFI Gypsy King. Long back I had spoken to karthik and he did mention that RD box will be able to improve the low end torque of the MPFI Gypsy King.

Several threads on t-bhp mention that standalone ECM has improved low end response of their cars.

Will the guru's here please help.!!!
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Old 24th June 2008, 11:07   #33
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I think you are fast approaching the area where your ever-increasing mods will give you ever decreasing "grunt return" per rupee spent. Maybe time to look for a new screamer?

I somewhat disagree on the turbo issue. There are modern 2 stage turbos and variable turbos that are "instant on" and do supply low end torque. But they are EXPENSIVE.
U hit the nail on the head. But routing the intake shouldnt be a costly proposition na?

@Khan_sultan
I have exactly the same query.

Regards,
TG.

Last edited by Torqueguru : 24th June 2008 at 11:09.
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Old 24th June 2008, 12:51   #34
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TG you are obviously looking for minor tweaks to improve the low end. Why don't you try out a CAI first? You could borrow it from someone and check out if thats what you are looking for.
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Old 24th June 2008, 12:58   #35
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@Rohan
Yeah I was thinking of trying out the out a CAI..hmmm...Hope There will be a difference thats notable.
Regards,
TG.
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Old 24th June 2008, 15:33   #36
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Originally Posted by Torqueguru View Post
But yeah i love the grunting sound it makes and i am not too keen(as you rightly said!) on giving it up, but if its the only way out then i gotta live with it i guess.
Well as i mentioned before that all you need to do with that typhoon kit is get an enclosure for it and a routing for cold air intake and that alone would make quite of a difference. I bet with the current set up, after about 10mins of driving you do experience lag in the initial rev range and might also feel that the engine is stressed at higher revs. All this is because the filter is sucking in a good amount of hot air from the headers and engine block.
This should be first to sort out on your priority list.

See if the person you got the headers done from can exchange/replace the existing ones for a design specific for low-end torque. As per your earlier posts if 3rd gear and 4000rpms onwards you get good response, also keeping in mind the 4G94 was designed for higer rev range performance(I guess all Mitsus are!!?) Seems like the headers too have been designed for the same.
This should be second.

As these are mods already done on your car and just need to be done right to get what you are looking for.
(Dont mis-understand me ordering you mate, by the fashion i have written the posts!)

The clutch also suffers a lot of wear if your maximum driving is in peak traffic hours and usually goes unnoticed. If you do find a worn out clutch get an Exedy Stage 1 clutch.

The above 3 mentioned wont burn a hole in your pocket and will give you considerable difference in performance in your vehicles existing state.

Otherwise if you are willing to spend a good amount of moolah! Then nothing beats a custom coded ECM remap as suggested by all. Plus the above ofcourse.
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Old 24th June 2008, 15:45   #37
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
Small diameter tires will also improve your braking. Just the opposite is true for larger tires, and I know this for a fact running oversize tires on Jeeps.
@ RedMM - Is there any thing like this in general? It is because you are not changing the dia of your disc, right? A big dia tyre having a small dia disc will have pathetic braking because of the less stopping power/torque applied on the disc. Otherwise is there anything like this as a theory?

Quote:
Right, stock ecms are tuned for max efficiency, which is the same as good low end grunt. The way to drive for max efficiency is to keep the rpm as low as possible in the highest gear possible. This is low end torque. This is the reason mass production engines have small intake throttle bodies and exhaust pipes with restriction. They are designed to provide good torque at low throttle or rpm.
But then why are people going for free flow filters and exhaust to increase low end torque? What I understand, for example, a stock petrol swift with OE air filter and exhaust manifold is never able to catch up one with a free flow filter and good exhaust system with headers. Isn't manufacturers doing this for cost cutting / emission norms, efficiency or detuning? Or are you saying that a moded car is not really having any advantage in low end torque, but just a feeling of it due to more free revving engine which reaches higher RPMs faster than a stock car? I really would like to know as I am planning for a FFE.

Last edited by redfire : 24th June 2008 at 15:51.
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Old 24th June 2008, 16:41   #38
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Originally Posted by redfire View Post
But then why are people going for free flow filters and exhaust to increase low end torque? What I understand, for example, a stock petrol swift with OE air filter and exhaust manifold is never able to catch up one with a free flow filter and good exhaust system with headers. Isn't manufacturers doing this for cost cutting / emission norms, efficiency or detuning? Or are you saying that a moded car is not really having any advantage in low end torque, but just a feeling of it due to more free revving engine which reaches higher RPMs faster than a stock car? I really would like to know as I am planning for a FFE.
OEM Filters and Exhaust are designed for optimum efficiency as they are strictly bound by emmission norms and have to produce a product for a mass where 90% of the people, nomatter what car you might be talking about, will pop the question-"Wo Sab to theek hai! Par mileage kya hai gadi ki?" Hence everything is designed for FE as priority and performance is compensated with good handling etc. in short comes as secondary.
(Please keep in mind the above is only being reffered to car being produced for the majority audience and not aimed at a specific niche. Eg: Cars in the 3.5lacs to 5lacs segment.)

What you said was correct in terms of manufacturers detune or more appropriately have a conservative attitude because of - "cost cutting / emission norms, efficiency etc."
And the above also concurs with what RedMM said but it is not that modding a car with an FFE and a high-flow filter reduces the torque...its just how you mod it, how you design an FFE to give you what you want, to do what you want it to do to maximize output of the small throttle bodies, cams, heads and other restriction which one might not want to mod early on. Ofcourse at the end of the day a TB can be enlarged, cams and heads can be replaced, ported, pistons polished and what not.
A wrongly designed FFE, headers will reduce surely torque or top-end because there design restrictions to keep in mind.
An oversized air-filter does not necessarily mean your car would be faster, the extra air being fed in will not be used as there is a limit to the volume of air which can be used/combusted by a specific engine.
Similarly an undersized one will leave the engine gasping for air.

So modding means enhancing performance but it should be backed with knowledge about the correct way to mod.

Last edited by abhik : 24th June 2008 at 16:48.
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Old 24th June 2008, 16:48   #39
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A very simple solution, go 2-3 psi higher in all 4 tyres. Most tyres today can handle upto 40-50psi max so even if you go upto 35psi (ensuring acceptable ride quality) you will notice a significant reduction in overall rolling resistance.

And yes, push the airfilter closer to the radiator with a plastic "L" shape shield insulating the filter from exhaust manifold heat. Just stick the "L" thingie around the filter neck in the right angle/direction. This change will facilitate a bit of change in throttle response too however unsure of how much it will!!!

Hope my 2re solution works well for you mate...

-The Wolf

Last edited by The Wolf : 24th June 2008 at 16:51.
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:11   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
So modding means enhancing performance but it should be backed with knowledge about the correct way to mod.
Abhik, thanks and I know exactly how important it is to have a knowledge backup and expertise to get things done. That is why I am still in reaserch of available FFEs. We have few names and mixed opinions. One brand advised by a person turns out a bad one when some one else comes with a new suggestion. Hope I can find one
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:13   #41
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Get rid of your FFE, it will help in increasing low end torque.
Absense of backpressure is good for the top end, however the low end suffers.
Meanwhile do something about your air intake. Such hot air is not going to do good for performance and efficiency. whatever you are gaining by performance air filter, you are losing due to hot air.
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:38   #42
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Get rid of your FFE, it will help in increasing low end torque.
Absense of backpressure is good for the top end, however the low end suffers.
Meanwhile do something about your air intake. Such hot air is not going to do good for performance and efficiency. whatever you are gaining by performance air filter, you are losing due to hot air.
@TSK why get rid of the header when a simple redesign can do the trick, and adding a high-flow cat-con would generate the required back pressure.

OT: Are you coming to the meet?
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Old 24th June 2008, 17:42   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
@TSK why get rid of the header when a simple redesign can do the trick, and adding a high-flow cat-con would generate the required back pressure.

OT: Are you coming to the meet?
Yup a redesign will help too. I was giving "generic" advice
As for the meet, well its 10% chance, I am mostly out of station on weekends
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Old 24th June 2008, 18:19   #44
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i think as pointed out earlier most FFE are designed for topend power.and in cars with less low down end torque like yours its more noticable, my advice to u would be to go for FFE with more torque low down
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Old 24th June 2008, 18:52   #45
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One more solution, put in a Fuel Pressure Regulator and run slightly higher fuel pressure, this should take care of the low end...
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