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Old 7th July 2008, 12:02   #1
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Default How to buy/swap a new engine

Friends,

We have many threads and advice here on engine swap. Most of the advice is to 'contact so and so tuner and he will do the needful'.

I know one can always visit old parts market to look out for used engines when considering an engine swap. However, info about getting new engines is somehow not available. I know that abroad one can procure a new engine by mail order itself .

The questions I have is:
  1. What are the options available for auto-enthusiasts for putting in a 'new' engine.
  2. Where does one get a 'new' engine from? from the dealer or directly from the company?
  3. What's the process of getting one? Can we order one at a company authorized service center?
  4. What kind of costs are we looking at? It would help if we can list the costs of various common engines available. For example, what would a NEW 1.6 L Baleno Engine cost(assuming it is still available)
  5. RTO process
Please add more questions/info about getting new engines here.

PS: Mods, Don't know if a similar thread exists. I tried searching for one but could not find one. Please merge/move if necessary.
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Old 7th July 2008, 12:06   #2
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Point 1. Options available are limited due to point 5.

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Old 7th July 2008, 12:10   #3
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BT, the RTO process would hold true for all engine swaps -- you install a new engine or an old engine, how would that matter for RTO? We have 1000's of petrol to diesel etc swaps happening.

Not questioning your point, but trying to understand it better. I really want to understand why the 'new aftermarket engine' scene is literally non existent here.
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Old 7th July 2008, 12:13   #4
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A very good tread, I have been wanting to know answers to these questions myself, as I'm looking forward to swaping my Petrol engine with a diesel one in the future, but have no idea, with what's involved in the process.
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Old 7th July 2008, 12:25   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
BT, the RTO process would hold true for all engine swaps -- you install a new engine or an old engine, how would that matter for RTO? We have 1000's of petrol to diesel etc swaps happening.

Not questioning your point, but trying to understand it better. I really want to understand why the 'new aftermarket engine' scene is literally non existent here.
Because several laws in India are foolish.
I have heard that you need a permit to replace the engine, even if its with the same engine, which is quite ridiculous.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 7th July 2008, 12:44   #6
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Lightbulb RTO rules (pun intended)

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
BT, the RTO process would hold true for all engine swaps -- you install a new engine or an old engine, how would that matter for RTO? ...
Yes, true.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
...We have 1000's of petrol to diesel etc swaps happening.
...
How many of these would actually have been endorsed in the RC book ???

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
...Not questioning your point, but trying to understand it better. I really want to understand why the 'new aftermarket engine' scene is literally non existent here.
I understand ...

I am also not too sure about the processes, what I do know is this : as per MV Act, any change to the vehicle that is not the same as in the RC, should be approved by the RTO (even if i decide to paint my car in a different color from what is mentioned in the RC , then it has to be approved by the RTO ). So you can imagine what the RTO will say for engine change!!!

The after-market new-engines are not popular : due to the cost involved. To further explain : if i decide to go for a engine change, would I go for a new engine (costing for eg Rs. 60,000/-) which doesnt have RTO approval or a good used-engine (costing for eg. Rs. 20,000/-) which also doesnt have RTO approval. Obviously the second choice, since the cost involved is less, and one has additional cash to resolve the RTO issues (if any) !!!

.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 7th July 2008 at 12:53.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:01   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Friends,

We have many threads and advice here on engine swap. Most of the advice is to 'contact so and so tuner and he will do the needful'.

I know one can always visit old parts market to look out for used engines when considering an engine swap. However, info about getting new engines is somehow not available. I know that abroad one can procure a new engine by mail order itself .

The questions I have is:
  1. What are the options available for auto-enthusiasts for putting in a 'new' engine.
  2. Where does one get a 'new' engine from? from the dealer or directly from the company?
  3. What's the process of getting one? Can we order one at a company authorized service center?
  4. What kind of costs are we looking at? It would help if we can list the costs of various common engines available. For example, what would a NEW 1.6 L Baleno Engine cost(assuming it is still available)
  5. RTO process
Please add more questions/info about getting new engines here.

PS: Mods, Don't know if a similar thread exists. I tried searching for one but could not find one. Please merge/move if necessary.

1. nothing in swapping engines. (legally)
2.you can get a brand new engine but not as a crate engine but you would
have to get the entire part list and buy it by the parts and assemble it.
3.^^
4.for example a baleno engine bought by parts works out some where around 4 lakhs odd.
5.AFAIK the swap can be done only if the original engine is no longer
produced even for parts and the swap would have to be carried out by the company only.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:15   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Friends,

info about getting new engines is somehow not available.
The questions I have is:
  1. What are the options available for auto-enthusiasts for putting in a 'new' engine.
  2. Where does one get a 'new' engine from? from the dealer or directly from the company?
  3. What's the process of getting one? Can we order one at a company authorized service center?
  4. What kind of costs are we looking at? It would help if we can list the costs of various common engines available. For example, what would a NEW 1.6 L Baleno Engine cost(assuming it is still available)
  5. RTO process
Please add more questions/info about getting new engines here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
I am also not too sure about the processes, what I do know is this : as per MV Act, any change to the vehicle that is not the same as in the RC, should be approved by the RTO (even if i decide to paint my car in a different color from what is mentioned in the RC , then it has to be approved by the RTO ). So you can imagine what the RTO will say for engine change!!!

The after-market new-engines are not popular : due to the cost involved. To further explain : if i decide to go for a engine change, would I go for a new engine (costing for eg Rs. 60,000/-) which doesnt have RTO approval or a good used-engine (costing for eg. Rs. 20,000/-) which also doesnt have RTO approval. Obviously the second choice, since the cost involved is less, and one has additional cash to resolve the RTO issues (if any) !!!

.

Well..firstly, one needs to be aware of the following points in looking for engine swaps:

Here, i am considering, changing a petrol engine with a petrol one, for simplicity sake.

1. Is the vehicle capable of handling the new engine? Space wise
2. How is the engine mounted in the vehicle - transverse or normal?
3. How is the gearbox mounted - this may depend on pt#2 above.
4. What engines can i source for the swap - list your options.
5. Check all options' engine mounting . i.e see how closely it matches your current engine?

Based on your choices above, one will have to alter other parts of the vehicle to make the conversion successful. The RTO process is quite simple..thankfully as we live in India.

For question #2 & #3.
Now, we could also source a new engine - same spec, directly from the manufacturer via the dealer. This option is possible and there is no hassle with the RTO too as the new engine will have the same engine number as the old one and the fitment will be done by the authorised service centre.


for Q #4.
A used baleno power could cost anywhere upwards of 40K in Chennai - I;m told. But all prices of used engines..whatever the make or model is based on our contact level only. Half are retrieved from accident cars and the other half well xxxxxx

Cheers
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:26   #9
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Where does one find brand new engines for 60,000 rupees,BT? Usually,they're in lakhs.
@khan: Today, you can't endorse the engine change in the RC book. So, if u get the engine transplant done which is illegal, u will lose total resale value and very few buyers would be interested in picking up an invalid vehicle.
But, if u're planning to keep the vehicle for life, then,thats a different matter.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
@khan: Today, you can't endorse the engine change in the RC book. So, if u get the engine transplant done which is illegal, u will lose total resale value and very few buyers would be interested in picking up an invalid vehicle.
But, if u're planning to keep the vehicle for life, then,thats a different matter.
I disagree there, my friend. You can endorse engine change in the RC book without loosing resale value, IFF, it is the same engine, AND a new one from the manufacturer.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Where does one find brand new engines for 60,000 rupees,BT? Usually,they're in lakhs.....
nitrous, you did not read the "for eg" , i think , .

I was just giving an example figure to illustrate the cost difference between new and old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
...would I go for a new engine (costing for eg Rs. 60,000/-) which doesnt have RTO approval....
.
Anybody has any info about Jayem auto in Coimbatore? They used to manufacture new diesel engines : in all probability, they continue manufacturing new engines. It would be interesting to know if they sell retail or only supply directly to the car manufacturers.

Their web-site (New Page 1) doesn't give much info.

.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 7th July 2008 at 13:40.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:38   #12
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Ohhhhhhhh... the responses have made me thinking now. I was under the impression that an 'engine swap' (either old or new) can be endorsed in the RC book.

That's the reason I wanted to know how, where & what 'NEW' engine options were available in India.

So does that mean that all these petrol to diesel engine swaps in jeeps etc and all engine swaps for performance are not 'legal' ? If the RTO is in a bad mood, he could make the owners life miserable if caught..
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:46   #13
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Now, there's this common practice called "punching".
The engine number on your RC is "punched" onto the one thats going into the car. Now,if u're switching from a zen engine to an esteem engine, this is going to be a cakewalk. If u're switching to a diesel engine that belches black smoke and is noisy, You're gonna be in trouble if there's an RTO inspection.
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
Anybody has any info about Jayem auto in Coimbatore? They used to manufacture new diesel engines : in all probability, they continue manufacturing new engines. It would be interesting to know if they sell retail or only supply directly to the car manufacturers.
They manufacture "Jaya" diesel engines for Ambassadors and Fiats. Now they are also into Tata Racing and develop specifics for them. And They never sold to the OEMs. They only did retail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Ohhhhhhhh... the responses have made me thinking now. I was under the impression that an 'engine swap' (either old or new) can be endorsed in the RC book.

That's the reason I wanted to know how, where & what 'NEW' engine options were available in India.

So does that mean that all these petrol to diesel engine swaps in jeeps etc and all engine swaps for performance are not 'legal' ? If the RTO is in a bad mood, he could make the owners life miserable if caught..
Not all are illegal, some are.

The others have their books in order. You could get a petrol jeep, endorsed to have a diesel engine etc. Not an issue.

OT: If the jeep owner is in a bad mood, he could make the RTO vanish
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Old 7th July 2008, 13:51   #15
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
... If the RTO is in a bad mood, he could make the owners life miserable if caught..
Yes, exactly . I think you are getting the general idea of the situation now.

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
They manufacture "Jaya" diesel engines for Ambassadors and Fiats. Now they are also into Tata Racing and develop specifics for them. ...
That was in the past, I think. Now I think they must be having newer products. Their website shows pics of some DI Turbo engines, but there is no techinical info about that.

.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 7th July 2008 at 13:56.
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