Palio Brake Upgrade

[abhijitl]

Originally Posted by cogweelz

Guys,

I have a 2004 Palio 1.9 D.

I had my break pads changed 5 months back. Now again there is that growling noise back while breaking. Like once in 10 times I apply them. I use my car on a minimum rate of 25KM/day everyday in quite a lean traffic. I do have long drives (200KM above) once in a month. I have had no problems in braking. Its decent and confidence building. I dont do rash driving. Tread between 40-60KMpH.

My question is why the pads get depleted so soon? Or is it routine for Palio?

I love my car with its decent performance and awesome FE (15Kmpl with A/C) in city. Bust such crucial elemnts being depleted at such a fast rate even when I am soft on the vehicle is bit of a concern.

Please advice?

Hi,
Check if there is too much dust on dik & pads. Clean them. Check brake pad material.

[kaustubh_vaze]

Friends,
The braking for the Palio 1.6 horse was always suspect due to the 240 MM discs and smaller calipers (same as the 1.2 I guess). So went in for a brake upgrade.
My reliable mech Ravi (Amrapali Garage, Pune) suggested an upgrade to the Adventure braking system - 270 MM discs and matching callipers. I got the callipers painted red as well.
I have seen him upgrade the brakes on his Sienna TD60 with the same system so reliability was never an issue. Also the kit from the Advy is a bolt on for the Palio and does not need any sort of modification. Initially when the brake were installed, the disc was fouling with the callipers (it happens with new kits was the response). So had to grind the disc a bit and it now fits properly.
Didn't get a chance to go to the open road but did some hard braking under acceleration and the response is good and true.
With the old brakes, I used to have butterflies in my stomach when doing higher speeds, of 100 KMPH+ for fear of the vehicle not stopping in time. But with the initial tests, it just bites wonderfully.
The next obvious upgrade would be wider and better rubber since the 175 Good Years GPS2 is inadequate for good braking.

Here are the inital pics just before fitment. Will post after fitment pics. in a day or 2:

[planet_rocker]

Awesome update. It will be great if you can also share the expenses incurred.

Congrats - and keep us udated. - Drive Safe.

Mods may want to merge this with:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...+brake+upgrade (Palio Brake Upgrade)

[lohithrao]

I recently came to know that Adventure has a different brake setup as the caliper pin of the 1.6 dint suit it, for sure its a good decision..

[praful]

@Kaustubh: How much did you shell out for this upgrade?

[kaustubh_vaze]

Hey guys,
Just a correction - The discs could be 257 MM rather than 270 MM (Did not measure them). I had almost forgotten about the brake upgrade thread (didn't do a search).
Mods, I feel its perfectly alright to merge the 2 threads as mentioned by Planet_Rocker above.
As for the price - I dont know the OEM prices of these parts. I can just say in the range of 10K along with the labour and OEM parts sourced by the mechanic.

@funkykar - No other details remain to be disclosed. Got the original new discs and callipers for the Adventure and fitted them directly. No modifications. Cost mentioned above.
Regards,
Kaustubh

[funkykar]

Excellent! We are all curious to know the cost incurred and how long it took to do the makeover. Tbhpian Karthik1100 too want to do it on his 1.6. Complete details would help a lot.

[viper_711]

Originally Posted by kaustubh_vaze

Friends,

Didn't get a chance to go to the open road but did some hard braking under acceleration and the response is good and true.
With the old brakes, I used to have butterflies in my stomach when doing higher speeds, of 100 KMPH+ for fear of the vehicle not stopping in time. But with the initial tests, it just bites wonderfully.


Here are the inital pics just before fitment. Will post after fitment pics. in a day or 2:

Kaustubh,
Congrats on the successful upgrade.
Please do share your experiences over a period of time. I am especially interested to know if changing only the front discs have affected the brake bias (between rear and front) and if it affects handling under braking.
Additionally, if you could also share future experiences on brake lock-ups (another common Palio problem)
Enjoy the new found confidence safely!

[bottle]

Interesting waiting for updates. On another note, another really good way to improve braking is plonk some advan neovas on your rims huge huge improvement in braking area

Something like that along with bigger calipers and good pads should yeild amazing results I think

[praful]

Kaustubh: Another question, does the adventure have the same rear brakes as well? Or are they larger drums too?

[kaustubh_vaze]

Originally Posted by bottle

Interesting waiting for updates. On another note, another really good way to improve braking is plonk some advan neovas on your rims huge huge improvement in braking area

Something like that along with bigger calipers and good pads should yeild amazing results I think

Yeah, but the good years have some life left in them. Dont have the budget to upgrade yet. Maybe in another 6 months.

Originally Posted by viper_711

Kaustubh,
Congrats on the successful upgrade.
Please do share your experiences over a period of time. I am especially interested to know if changing only the front discs have affected the brake bias (between rear and front) and if it affects handling under braking.
Additionally, if you could also share future experiences on brake lock-ups (another common Palio problem)
Enjoy the new found confidence safely!

Thanks @viper_711. I have not found any change in the limited testing I did. If I do, there is always the option to upgrade the rear drums as well.

Originally Posted by praful

Kaustubh: Another question, does the adventure have the same rear brakes as well? Or are they larger drums too?

I believe, the Advy has larger drums in the rear. If the brake bias changes due to larger discs up front, then the next upgrade would be to Advy drums.

Regards,
Kaustubh

[nim_peter]

Finally a solution to the braking problem. But I would say the braking improved a lot after upsizing to 195s Yoko S Drive. Can't remember any screeching after the upsize. A 257MM disc will make it perfect.

Could you also explain what was the grinding which you had mentioned?
"Initially when the brake were installed, the disc was fouling with the callipers (it happens with new kits was the response). So had to grind the disc a bit and it now fits properly."
Will grinding the disc affect the structural stability of the discs?

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by kaustubh

I believe, the Advy has larger drums in the rear. If the brake bias changes due to larger discs up front, then the next upgrade would be to Advy drums.

Your bias is going to be a little bit more at the front.
So, don't worry.
Traction issue will surface only if the brake's biased to the rear.

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by kaustubh_vaze

Friends,
The braking for the Palio 1.6 horse was always suspect due to the 240 MM discs and smaller calipers (same as the 1.2 I guess). So went in for a brake upgrade.
My reliable mech Ravi (Amrapali Garage, Pune) suggested an upgrade to the Adventure braking system - 270 MM discs and matching callipers. I got the callipers painted red as well.
...

Good. I don't know why FIAT had skimped on this. IIRC, worldwide they had offered 257mm discs for the 1.6 and the 240 was only for the 1.2 versions.

the 240 discs are pathetic and just don't do justice or inspire confidence in ANY breaking situation.

Originally Posted by kaustubh_vaze

Hey guys,
Just a correction - The discs could be 257 MM rather than 270 MM (Did not measure them).

Yeah. it's 257 mm

Questions:

• What about the brake booster? Shouldn't the booster be changed also?
• What about brake pads?

And yes, as other folks asked, what the cost and did you get new parts or are these taken from a scrapped/donor Adventure?

This is one mod I intend to do on my S10 also. Thanks for sharing this.

[kaustubh_vaze]

@khan_sultan - To answer your questions:
1. The Adventure and the Palio 1.6 share the same brake booster AFAIK and the mechanic knows. Apparent from the fact that the mechanic has the same upgrade on his Sienna 1.7 TD as well. So I believe, a lot of Fiat models share the same internals. I am not sure about this one - but the non-ABS Linea also shares the same brake booster.
2. The brake pads were also bought new.
3. All parts were bought new from some dealer in Mumbai. I dont have details because the mechanic sourced them. If you want, I can get the details for you.

I have mentioned the cost earlier - The whole thing with labour set me back by about 10K. It may vary between 10K and 13K depending on the cost of the parts and the labour costs in a particular scenario.

@nim_peter - With brand new sourced brake assembly (especially spare), there is very thin gap between the disc and the pad. We assembled the right side assembly first, put the car in 3rd gear and ran it up to 3000 RPM. This helped us figure out whether the assembly is "too tight". It started smoking after that. Then we disassembled, ground the disc identically from both sides (dont have the exact amount of material taken out) and then reassembled. It runs well now. Since you are from Pune, we can meet over a weekend and I can introduce you to the mech and you can get to see my brake upgrade as well.

Update - The brakes bite nicely and at high speeds are far more reassuring than the old ones. You dont have to think about braking distances, if you know what I mean. At slow speeds, in traffic, there is no fading and the car halts instantly.
I think it will be even better after the tyre upgrade but that is 6 months down the line.

Regards,
Kaustubh