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Old 16th April 2009, 03:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Can 4WD be retained after the engine swap? Or will the gypsy be a 2WD?
Yes the 4WD can be retained after the swap. It all depends on which engine you are swapping with and how far the engine is going into the firewall. The transfer case should mate well enough. I might be wrong though. Kindly correct me if I am.

Regards,

Anirban.

P.S: The Gypsy which I had mentioned before was originally a 410 on which a 1800 Isuzu petrol engine was swapped. It retained the 4WD. The owner had mentioned that the firewall was reworked and the original transfer case and the GB of the 410 was used in it.
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Old 17th April 2009, 13:44   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Can 4WD be retained after the engine swap? Or will the gypsy be a 2WD?
Cougar,

I have swapped Isuzu engine and gearbox for my gypsy MG 410 retaining the transfer gearbox. The advantage with gypsy is transfer gearbox is divorced unlike jeeps. So, you can reposition the transfer gearbox mounting and align the main gearbox with T-Case and propeller shafts.

Please see my thread Powering up gypsy.

Dwarak
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Old 17th April 2009, 14:13   #18
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@ kaushik, If you are not going ahead with this project, could you please pass the Baleno engine here ?
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Old 24th April 2009, 12:24   #19
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Default Gypsy Engine Swap: 1.6L Baleno vs 1.8L ISZ. Which one is more VFM?

To cut a long story short; 'IF' one were to consider an engine upgrade to the 1.3L mpfi motor of the Gypsy, which would be the more VFM option between 1.6L Baleno engine vs the 1.8L ISZ engine.

Assumption: The owner wants more low end torque/power than what is currently present (for off-roading purposes)

Parameters to be considered:
  • Cost of the swap/parts/labor
  • Availability of mechanics/workshops who have been there done that
  • Time factor for the swap job
  • Ancillary mods to be done for swap (e.g, shafts, body work etc etc)
  • Reliability factor
  • Future maintainability & serviceability, spare parts availability
  • Weight of the engine + swap parts
  • Availability of the donor engine
Specs (Do these even matter?):

1.3L Mpfi Gypsy Engine:
  • Power: 80 PS @ 6000 rpm
  • Torque: 103 Nm @ 4500 rpm
1.6L Mpfi Baleno Engine:
  • Power: 94 PS @ 5500 rpm
  • Torque: 130 Nm @ 3000 rpm
1.8L Mpfi ISZ Engine:
  • Power: 75 PS @ 5000 rpm
  • Torque: 130 Nm @ 3000 rpm

Last edited by khan_sultan : 24th April 2009 at 12:26.
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Old 24th April 2009, 12:31   #20
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What khan next modification is getting planned. I would prefer baleno engine more reliability and MASS centres to repair anytime.
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Old 25th April 2009, 20:52   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
:

1.3L Mpfi Gypsy Engine:
  • Power: 80 PS @ 6000 rpm
  • Torque: 103 Nm @ 4500 rpm
1.6L Mpfi Baleno Engine:
  • Power: 94 PS @ 5500 rpm
  • Torque: 130 Nm @ 3000 rpm
1.8L Mpfi ISZ Engine:
  • Power: 75 PS @ 5000 rpm
  • Torque: 130 Nm @ 3000 rpm
Of the 3, I'd pick the 1.6 as it is more rev friendly than the 1.8 and 1.3 and generates the max torque too!!

But would love to check dwaraka's Ipszy before that!

Cheers
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Old 26th April 2009, 21:14   #22
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Baleno powered Gypsies have been built and raced. Quite popular in the T1 category of Raid de Himalaya. The top guys like Suresh Rana and Sunny Sidhu run these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Specs (Do these even matter?):
Any idea about engine weight? The isuzu is the only one with an iron block IIRC. Is a lower final drive doable in the 1.3 gypsy for crawling.
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Old 27th April 2009, 00:08   #23
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i guess calmini makes adapter kits for gypsy to plonk in a 1.6 engine. I have seen one on a gypsy in shimla it even had coil all over suspension and has a baleno engine and yes it so very rev friendly.
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Old 27th April 2009, 09:47   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Baleno powered Gypsies have been built and raced. Quite popular in the T1 category of Raid de Himalaya. The top guys like Suresh Rana and Sunny Sidhu run these.
The Raid reports mentioned that these had reliability issues -- that's what I have read in various reports. Including a certain turbo Gypsy

Quote:
Any idea about engine weight? The isuzu is the only one with an iron block IIRC.
As per what people say, it is 30kgs+ heavier than the 1.6

Quote:
Is a lower final drive doable in the 1.3 gypsy for crawling.
he he. NO WAY. At best crawling in jungle trails

Quote:
Originally Posted by renegade View Post
i guess calmini makes adapter kits for gypsy to plonk in a 1.6 engine.
From what I have heard, there is NO need for any adapter plate etc for using the 1.6 Baleno mpfi engine (assuming that the base vehicle is a 1.3L mpfi gypsy)
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Old 16th August 2009, 02:00   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
The Raid reports mentioned that these had reliability issues -- that's what I have read in various reports. Including a certain turbo Gypsy

From what I have heard, there is NO need for any adapter plate etc for using the 1.6 Baleno mpfi engine (assuming that the base vehicle is a 1.3L mpfi gypsy)
for the 5 speed GB, the top studs match. Bottom ones need to be drilled in the engine frame.

Yep. Clutch failure and driveshaft failures owing to the extra torque generated
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Old 16th August 2009, 11:11   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
for the 5 speed GB, the top studs match. Bottom ones need to be drilled in the engine frame.

Yep. Clutch failure and driveshaft failures owing to the extra torque generated
Wont the Performance clutches for the baleno be of any use here? Sorry for the n00b question.
Driveshafts- well..*shrugs*
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Old 19th August 2009, 16:33   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Wont the Performance clutches for the baleno be of any use here? Sorry for the n00b question.
Driveshafts- well..*shrugs*
When we use gearbox from Gypsy we can't use baleno's clutch.
whatever clutch we use should match and fit in the gearbox bellhousing and spline shaft.
The difference in both baleno's and gypsy's clutches are not much.
both are of same outter diameter but the spline shaft dia. is different.
The gypsy's clutch is certainly beefy as it got to transmit high torque in 4L gearing

( unable to upload a picture due to low bandwidth)

Performance clutches made for Gypsy will solve the issue of early clutch burnout.
There are a lot of such options available in U.S like centraforce dual friction clutch

Last edited by MexXxentric : 19th August 2009 at 16:35.
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Old 10th September 2009, 00:30   #28
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My guess is for 14 BHP extra power and no modification in torque at low rpm and more sustained flat torque curve from 1500 to 4000 rpm, an engine swap is not worth the trouble.

Why Isuzu, for that matter even Diahatshu Rocky 2000 cc engine ( Daihatshu Rocky has a very similar chassis and common drivetrain systems as Suzuki Samurai ) can be mated and fitted into a Gypsy 413 W, but is it worth it ?

In one case I have seen a 1.6 Baleno engine transverse mounted in a Gypsy which originally has a longitudnal engine. This is going to lead to constant trouble.

The best and reliable option to get more out of an MPFI, 1.3 Litre Gypsy is.

Modify the intake - install a K & N filter with an isolator kit if possible.
Install a free flow exaust
Install a heavier cable set
Upgrade to quadra polar or platinum / Iridium Spitfire spark plugs

This modification alone will get you an additional 14 to 15 bhp.

If more power is required, another 4 to 5 BHP, modify the ECU.

And for offroading, modify the suspension, use high performance leaf springs and Nitro Filled shocks.

Install genuine mud / rock crawler tyres and your Gypsy will never let you down off road.
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Old 5th November 2009, 15:59   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
My guess is for 14 BHP extra power and no modification in torque at low rpm and more sustained flat torque curve from 1500 to 4000 rpm, an engine swap is not worth the trouble.
There is modification in the torque curve. 1.6 will be more drivable.
For a 1000 cc gypsy, this modification will bring great change

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
In one case I have seen a 1.6 Baleno engine transverse mounted in a Gypsy which originally has a longitudnal engine. This is going to lead to constant trouble.
Oh my god.
too unrealistic & dimensionally impossible.
can you get more details on this regarding the gear box used and transmission layout? I am too curious

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
The best and reliable option to get more out of an MPFI, 1.3 Litre Gypsy is.

Modify the intake - install a K & N filter with an isolator kit if possible.
Install a free flow exhaust
Install a heavier cable set
Upgrade to quadra polar or platinum / Iridium Spitfire spark plugs

This modification alone will get you an additional 14 to 15 bhp.
what about torque? even if you get a low&mid range FFE, what will be the torque gain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Install genuine mud / rock crawler tyres and your Gypsy will never let you down off road.
Tyres alone wont help. You need low end torque to drive these monster tyres.

Note:every engine modification or transplant will affect the vehicle's reliability.
1.6 engine transplant can give maximum benefit with minimum compromise on reliability. a better choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Modify the intake - install a K & N filter with an isolator kit if possible.
Install a free flow exaust
Install a heavier cable
platinum / Iridium Spitfire spark plugs
Imagine the result if you do the same in 1.6 engine
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Old 6th November 2009, 09:03   #30
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that can be so surely done.My friend from bombay is getting it done now.
maybe he could help u out.
go to 4x4->vehicles->xtreme power pimps a gypsy.
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