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Old 30th December 2008, 20:27   #196
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I prefer not to guesstimate. Will wait for dyno figures!!!
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Old 30th December 2008, 20:56   #197
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First off Vivek, nice review of the car and thanks for sharing your experience. More than that, good to see you keeping your cool through all this.

This thread is quite amusing, interesting and unnerving as well.

A claim is made that an Octy RS is hitting 500 bhp. This has got quite a few panties in a bunch.

Why cant we just let it be a claim by the owner that this car is around the 500bhp mark, I don't see anyone asking for proof of how much was paid for a ICE set up, or proof of 1/4 mile timings posted?

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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
IMHO, it's also out of taste to criticise somebody's writing skills, especially when you are not paying to read it. And it was done with the purpose of sharing it with the rest of the community.

Vivek wrote down what he experienced, to the best of his skills. If you would like to debate something, please centralise your discussion around the car and not his writing skills. I see nothing in his post that tarnishes Peter's image. In the quest for being the ultimate word, it's not nice to demean anybody.
I agree to this. Take the review/experience as it is a let it be.

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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
As a true Indian, let me ask - what's the FE?
There are some of us bold enough to ask on this forum. So Vivek, how much per liter of petrol? 5-6 I assume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekji05 View Post
It doesn't look friendly? Yes, I too felt the same earlier when everyone was telling I was wrong.

As far as dyno figures are concerned, should I really bother?
Why bother? Maybe it isn't even 400, so what? I still cannot understand why everyone is so concerned it taking 19.xx sec for a (claimed) 500bhp car to get to 200kmph.

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Originally Posted by vivekji05 View Post

If you critics saw this report in Autocar india first, you probably wouldn't open your mouth. I don't think you would ask them to verify the claims first then give you the report. Someone in team-bhp gave you the review three months ago and instead of showing a little appreciation for the effort, you throw up a fight. Do it with Autocar, after all that is what you paid to read. Not this one.
I agree if you opened with the Autocar article in your opening post the thread would have a lot different tone to it.

I bet that everyone on this thread is going to get a copy of that mag now.
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:02   #198
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Vivekji05, i had earlier made a comment some time ago on this thread annoucing my scepticism about the 500bhp claim. Now I am waiting and hoping to be proved wrong. Do me a favour, prove me and all of us wrong. Nobody's here to gloat and prove you wrong. Only it appears a little dicey, thats it. I liked your report and nicely written

As for your 0-100 timings, I can assure you that there are two very capable cars (Ford Rocam's and Viper's Hybrid Citys) on this very forum which are in the 178-185 bhp which can probably beat your claimed timings. (I for one, dont for even a second, subscribe to Autocar's and other car magazine's genuineness re claims made by them) Some of these so called magazines have directly lifted articles, written by our very members, from the forum and have to be reminded to give credit to the source and author, so lets not even get there.

Please stop posting dynographs of what can be achieved abroad. We are interested in knowing if what is being claimed,is achieved. I can show you dynos of 500bhp golfs, abroad. that does not mean any tuner in India can make a claim based on the fact, that it can be done.

My take, sorry about that, is that it cant be done indigenously.

Show dyno figures or hold your silence and patience and that goes for the others too. Enough has been said. The fact remains that whatever the Bhp put out, it is a seriously fast car, as claimed and so are our two Citys.

Last edited by V-16 : 30th December 2008 at 21:06. Reason: adding
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:06   #199
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500bhp on a FFR layout car. What a waste of power that would be.?
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:12   #200
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If i remember clearly, Monkeys RS with just stage1 remap with Konis & Michelin did 0-100 in about 6.63, this was tested on Gtech Pro not on V-Box.

0-100 timings are almost similar for both the cars. But 0-200 timings should differ, but how much ???
It would be interesting to compare powerband or Torque curve of both this engines.

As per Autocar the Boost/Kick comes at 5000 RPM & hits rev limiter at 7000 RPM very small powerband i must say. it needs a rev limit atleast of 8500 rpm to enjoy the power band, but engine geometry has to be considered to have this kind of rev limit.

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Old 30th December 2008, 21:20   #201
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Still dont understand why everyone is demanding dyno sheets from a person who is neither the tuner nor the owner of the car. I dont think vivekji can put the car on a dyno even if he wants to, no matter how much we jump on him - he has shared a driving experience and quoted the figures told to him.

Lets get the owner or Peter to clarify, please. Or tell people to stop talking about cars they've driven - in which case a vast majority here will have to remain silent most of the time.

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th December 2008 at 21:22.
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:38   #202
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Quote:
Still dont understand why everyone is demanding dyno sheets from a person who is neither the tuner nor the owner of the car.
Thats bcoz this person who is neither a tuner nor the owner is hell bent on making us believe the car has 500bhp. If he agress to stop claiming any bhp figs for the car, we will be more than happy to stop questioning him on that front.

Quote:
Or tell people to stop talking about cars they've driven - in which case a vast majority here will have to remain silent most of the time.
Theres a diff between reviewing a tuned car and claiming insane bhp figs without any proof to back it with.

If i was in his place i would have marvelled at its performance but would never go to the extent of saying its in supercar league or has 500bhp unless i had acc figures and dyno sheets which said so.

0-100 in 6.8 and 0-200 in 19.7 secs is nowhere close to supercar performance.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 30th December 2008 at 21:43.
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:48   #203
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So the dispute is because Vivek didnt put "claimed" before the 500bhp figure?
Or would it have been better if there was an "*" after the 500bhp?

To me, it looks like that, he missed out the word "claimed" in his review, and since then he's been given hell.
If we demand such precision from one thread starter, we should demand precision from all.
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:49   #204
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Based on my rough calculations by using the kerb weight of the car, and the timings given, the car is making anywhere between 190-240 bhp. The reason for the range is, that its very difficult for me to factor the weight of the passengers, the wind resistance, downforce levels, and the numbers provided are making calculations tough as the 0-100 is painfully slow compared to the 0-200.

But even if we go by the most optimistic figures, the car is not producing more than 240 bhp on wheels. Which is very far off from the claimed figure. Now I understand that Vivek got excited driving this car, as it was probably his first experience driving such a car.

The blaim sorely lies on the tuners in India in general who make obnoxious claims to ignorant customers who take there mere word for bhp. I am not blaming anyone in particular, but the very fact that there is a single dyno in this whole country says a lot. I have seen many ppl including some bhpians claim a 20 bhp increase with a mere free flow as told by the tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
Why cant we just let it be a claim by the owner that this car is around the 500bhp mark, I don't see anyone asking for proof of how much was paid for a ICE set up, or proof of 1/4 mile timings posted?
Agreed. Its not sensible to single out Vivekji and ask him for proof, when more than 90% of modded cars in India are not dynod. Taking your analogy further, please dont ask me for the proof of how I did my calculations.

Last edited by aseem : 30th December 2008 at 22:00.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:02   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Thats bcoz this person who is neither a tuner nor the owner is hell bent on making us believe the car has 500bhp.
The way I see it, he is not trying to make you or anyone else here believe that THE car has 500bhp, but that it is not impossible for such cars to generate similar outputs. And again, he is using these claims to try and defend himself. From what, I do not know - like I said, it isnt his car. If we stopped jumping on him, he may not have to resort to such means.

This a lot of noise over nothing. Half this forum is demanding something from him that he has NO means of providing - dyno sheets and what not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
If i was in his place i would have marvelled at its performance but would never go to the extent of saying its in supercar league or has 500bhp unless i had acc figures and dyno sheets which said so.
Right, but expecting him to speak like you is like expecting you to speak like me. It aint gonna happen, chuck. If thats the way he saw it, so be it. He cant be you or anyone else here.

What he wrote is:


Peter and I have been partners in many crimes like driving two 300bhp Octavias at insane speeds for a shoot out. One evening, I called him and to my surprise he asked if I would like to join him for the test drive of India’s first 500bhp Octavia, the next day. The thought itself made me lose sleep for hours. Here is an Octavia which produces more power than a Nissan GTR. Or a Porsche 911 turbo. Or a Ferrari F430.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
0-100 in 6.8 and 0-200 in 19.7 secs is nowhere close to supercar performance.
No doubt about it. But those ratings come from the mouth of a star struck young man driving a seriously fast car on a regular highway for the first time, not from professional equipment used for caliberation.

Is it criminal to be wow'ed?

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th December 2008 at 22:07.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:08   #206
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It is not criminal to be vowed. But is it criminal to ask for proof of someone being vowed ?

Hey, if you think its delivering 500bhp, get proof. I guess it's not really proper to say that I drove a 500bhp car without having any figures to back it up with.

vivek, get your figures right and then let us do the talking.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:21   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
It is not criminal to be vowed. But is it criminal to ask for proof of someone being vowed ?
It would be criminal to ask someone for something he obviously does not have - he would have to steal it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Hey, if you think its delivering 500bhp, get proof.
I dont know if it is delivering 500bhp. All I know is that the author has quoted someone as having claimed it has 500 bhp.

And I dont intend to dissect his claims - I drive 485 to work every day, which is also claimed. Technically my car is 400 with mods - the point is that Arden is a reputed tuning house and they provided the equipment (upgraded ECU allegedly worth 30 bhp and a supercharger pulley upgrade worth 55). Now Arden DIDNT put the parts into my car - a garage in Dubai did. Does that make my car any slower? I think not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I guess it's not really proper to say that I drove a 500bhp car without having any figures to back it up with.
Okay, so next time no writer should claim bhp figures with or without an asterix. Thats it.

My question is, what is the point in asking him for the figures? He drove it for something like half an hour - I dont think he even knows where the car is now, so whats the point in joining the chorus just for the sake of it?

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th December 2008 at 22:23.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:26   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
I dont care who gets it dynoed, we just wanna know if the car actually produces the claimed bhp figs, coz its performance is not even close to 500bhp.

Atleast when Honda says an OHC VTEC has 106bhp, it does 0-100 in 9.9secs, which is on par with what a 106bhp fwd car should do.

If a VTEC was to do 0-100 in 15-16secs, everybody would have questioned it's bhp figs.

Shan2nu
I dont buy this argument (though I agree this car is not 500 hp). But your claim that OHC Vtec does 0-100 in 9.9 seconds fitting a 106 bhp car is a little hollow. A 77 bhp odd NHC does 0-100 in 13.11 seconds and a 100 some bhp SX4 does a 0-100 in 12.1 seconds. You will also find that a 80 bhp odd Getz takes 1.5 longer than a the NHC to reach 100 kmph at 14.5 seconds. Now you could argue about kerb weights. But in past I have found manfacturers claim about power are questionable. Questions about Korean horses being slower than Japanese horses have always lingered. When these same manfacturers can claim 20 kmpl I doubt if our cars are actually dynod would we actually see the claimed figures??? Now please dont show me a dyno report of some other OHC, I want to see the dyno of your car....

I am just playing devils advocate to drive a point home. No offense meant

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
It is not criminal to be vowed. But is it criminal to ask for proof of someone being vowed ?

Hey, if you think its delivering 500bhp, get proof. I guess it's not really proper to say that I drove a 500bhp car without having any figures to back it up with.

vivek, get your figures right and then let us do the talking.
I dont see the point to argue/debate this further. Please read Steeroid's above post again, its very balanced and rightly points out that Vivek was told that it was a 500 bhp car by the tuner. He is not the tuner nor does he own the car so he really cant verify this claim. He was told 500 bhp and he believes it, his choice.

I doubt car is even close to 500 hp, having said that its just not right to simply corner a fellow bhpian and put him in a tight spot for no fault of his. Posts are becoming repetitive, argumentative and meaningless. Lets not spoil the spirit of this forum and practice restraint.

Last edited by aseem : 30th December 2008 at 22:41.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:35   #209
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The way I see it, he is not trying to make you or anyone else here believe that THE car has 500bhp, but that it is not impossible for such cars to generate similar outputs. And again, he is using these claims to try and defend himself. From what, I do not know - like I said, it isnt his car. If we stopped jumping on him, he may not have to resort to such means.
Cmon man, you think we have trouble believing a 1.8 ltr turbo engine can't do 500bhp? There are so many out there with dyno results.

But we definately have trouble believing that this particular car has 500bhp. Infact the doubt has increased even more after looking at the acc figures.

When questioned about the bhp figs, heres what he said in post #4.

"Peter did this for a customer in Mumbai. You read it right, it's 500bhp and not 200..

"


He never said that the tuner claims it is 500bhp and we would have to wait for the dyno result to confirm it. He was dead sure it was 500. This is what started it all.

Quote:
No doubt about it. But those ratings come from the mouth of a star struck young man driving a seriously fast car on a regular highway for the first time, not from professional equipment used for caliberation.
The acceleration figs came from a Vbox when Autocar reviewed this car. I can understand a slight diff in 0-100 as it requires the driver to be very precise when launching. But for a 100-200 run, you dont really need to be a professional driver, at the most you might lose a few tenths while shifting.

But this car is off by atleast 5-6 secs.

There are so many tuned cars on this forum that are very quick, you dont find them mentioning bhp figures unless it has ben tested on a dyno.

Shan2nu
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:43   #210
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Whoa ,Criticism is fine but for 14 long pages.!
Also why are you spending so much time and energy trying to enlighten him when you can see he is not interested ?

This thread is going nowhere.
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