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Old 9th April 2012, 21:36   #1831
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I have not been able to check 3M CR70 in action to compare it with my IceCool Shield. IMO the 10% difference TSER is getting a little hyped in the discussions we are having.

At the end of the day, at about 60% of the cost of Llumar, and even less when compared to 3M, I get a good front windshield sun film which does it's job. Eye strain is much less when driving in the afternoons, cabin/car feels much cooler, I dont feel the sun-burn on my fingers (with hands on steering wheel), and cannot complain about night driving - I dont feel visibility is a problem at night. On coming high-beams are not so trouble-some now.

So when IceCool shield does it's job nearly as good as the next two brands, but at much better price, why should I complain ?
Yup for the price and Quality it is most definitely worth it and a very VFM product. It costs almost 1/3rd of CR70 but only 10% lesser performance which is not noticeable.

I would highly recommend it. With 3M CR70 I'm sure I would have had buyer's remorse the next day that I spent close to 8K on tints and are they really worth it for the little benefit they offer for 3-4 months in the year when they are actually needed.
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Old 9th April 2012, 21:49   #1832
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

What a difference a few hundred km makes!

Here in Chennai it is ten sunny months in the year, and the answer is a resounding yes!
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Old 10th April 2012, 01:16   #1833
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

So does Garware really provide a 5 year warranty on the Ice Cool Shield like they tout in the ads?

Whats the warranty on the CR70?

If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?

Last edited by Mpower : 10th April 2012 at 01:34.
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Old 10th April 2012, 02:03   #1834
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?
That's a good question. I'd assumed it was money written off in case of smashed glass ...or indeed, written-off car.
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Old 10th April 2012, 02:19   #1835
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Yes, Garware provides a 5 year warranty on the IceCool Shield windscreen sunfilm.

About the insurance, I don't think that the insurance companies have any such provision. I say so because I had to get my Alto's windscreen replaced last year that had gotten cracked. At that time, I had inquired with my insurer if there is such a provision, to which he had replied in the negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
So does Garware really provide a 5 year warranty on the Ice Cool Shield like they tout in the ads?

Whats the warranty on the CR70?

If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?
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Old 10th April 2012, 02:33   #1836
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

My XUV with Garware Icecool Shield for Windscreen and 3M CS35 for sides and rear.
Attached Thumbnails
Front windscreen sunfilm?-20120409-16.16.42.jpg  

Front windscreen sunfilm?-20120409-16.17.03.jpg  

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Old 10th April 2012, 13:35   #1837
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
So does Garware really provide a 5 year warranty on the Ice Cool Shield like they tout in the ads?

Whats the warranty on the CR70?

If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?
Warranty is 5years on both Icecool Shield as well as CR70. The guy who I spoke to said if there is any issue the films will be replaced. The entire roll was delivered at home with full packing.

More details in this post:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...ml#post2741732

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I had got my Figo's front sunfilm installed by Meda Window film based in Bangalore. Fellow T-BHPian Condor and another friend of mine also got it installed from the same guy.

Not many people know about the Garware range and I saw that there was no place where details of Garware tints were available. I asked Shreyas from Meda to send across details of products available currently i.e. the latest range since the website is outdated.

Here's the product range and details from Shreyas:
Quote:
We can categorize the films in Garware as below.

For Sides & Back Only:
1. Performance
2. Ceramic / NF
3. Arctic Cool

Product Details:
1. Performance:
This is a 1.5 MIL thickness Film.
Colour variants: charcoal 05, natural 20 & 35, GREY 50.
Varying heat rejections between 48% to 65%

2. Ceramic / films:
Thickness: 1.5 MIL
Available Colours: Charcoal & Grey only
Visibilities: 20, 30 & 40
Heat Rejections: varies between: 50% to 55%. 20 VLT has a little higher Heat Rejection.
PS: 20% VLT is a customised product and is only available with Meda.


3. Arctic Cool:
Only 1 colour is available.
Heat rejection: 75%
VLT: 25%
Thickness: 1.5 MIL
Colour: light green tint
The high End Product.

For Front Windscreen:
1. Icecool shield
2. Alps
Both have almost the same performance characteristics. But Alps is dearer by another Rs. 500 /-
Contact details: Meda Window films - Shreyas - +91 - 9986502625

Installation is done at your house. You can contact above number for anymore details and pricing.

ps: I am not in anyway associated with Meda/Garware. Purely for benefit of members I asked Shreyas for details on his products and have posted here.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 10th April 2012 at 14:55.
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Old 10th April 2012, 17:13   #1838
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Hey, thanks for posting this information. But I just checked with Garware's regional office in New Delhi & it seems that they are not aware of any Performance series per se. Their so-called performance products include the IceCool & NF range.

Anyways, just wanted to check if you could post up some more details on model names or some link where I could find those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Warranty is 5years on both Icecool Shield as well as CR70. The guy who I spoke to said if there is any issue the films will be replaced. The entire roll was delivered at home with full packing.

More details in this post:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...ml#post2741732
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Old 10th April 2012, 17:27   #1839
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Hey, thanks for posting this information. But I just checked with Garware's regional office in New Delhi & it seems that they are not aware of any Performance series per se. Their so-called performance products include the IceCool & NF range.

Anyways, just wanted to check if you could post up some more details on model names or some link where I could find those.
The website is obsolete but it mentioned HP series and Performance series.

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Old 11th April 2012, 11:36   #1840
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
So does Garware really provide a 5 year warranty on the Ice Cool Shield like they tout in the ads?

If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?
I just got the Icecool Shield replaced due to a cracked windshield (served me well for close to 3 years). While installing the new one, there was a slight crack/mark right in the line of sight of the driver. Call was made to the distributor and the installer explained this was due to a defect in the film. Garware sent an executive to my place and a replacement under warranty was approved with in 2 days. It worked out quite seamlessly to be honest, better than what I expected. I specifically asked their executive who told me that they do honor the 5-year warranty if there is a genuine issue. I'll trust him on that going by my experience.

I don't think the insurance company should have a problem covering it if its value is declared at the time of sourcing the policy. Don't fall for hearsay or agent-speak, they really do not want to make the effort to find out.
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Old 11th April 2012, 13:18   #1841
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Smile Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Garware website mentioned the TSER.

http://www.garwaresuncontrol.com/pro...-cool%2070.pdf

Also 3M has 2 TSER numbers one for direct 90degrees and other on angle of 60 degrees. The on angle is 59% vs 50% for direct. The difference being that on angle rejection will be better due to refraction as well as reflection.
Thanks for that link, @Vid

It's really weird that the brochure ( available at all dealers ) only mentions about HR ( heat rejection ) and not TSER ( which is a standardized measure for heat rejection accepted across the world )

What is more weird is Garware claims 50% Heat rejection for Ice Cool Shield while its TSER is 40% according to the link on their own website. A classic case of misleading the buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast&furious View Post
Did you visit Car Shoppe near Ulloor? IIRC, they had it in stock when I was there a few months back. Btw,would you please share the details of the 3M dealer in Trivandrum?
Yes, I did visit them. Even they did not have the CR series of 3m. In fact, I finally bought the sun films from them since, they have a special discount for team-bhp members. I opted for Garware's Arctic series on my mother's Liva Windshield ( It's a new model which is not yet listed on their website ) for which Garware claims a heat rejection of 58%. I'm not sure how true it is though since, they do not use TSER for their heat rejection calculations! For the sides and rear, I went for Garware Elite 50 ( with a VLT of 50% to meet the legal requirements and for very good visibility even at night )

The Car Shoppy people also offered me infinity speakers at team-bhp price of Rs. 6,500/- Every other shop were quoting Rs. 8,000/-

With regards to the 3m dealer, the owner of Car shoppy called him. So, I do not have direct contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I have not been able to check 3M CR70 in action to compare it with my IceCool Shield. IMO the 10% difference TSER is getting a little hyped in the discussions we are having.

At the end of the day, at about 60% of the cost of Llumar, and even less when compared to 3M, I get a good front windshield sun film which does it's job. Eye strain is much less when driving in the afternoons, cabin/car feels much cooler, I dont feel the sun-burn on my fingers (with hands on steering wheel), and cannot complain about night driving - I dont feel visibility is a problem at night. On coming high-beams are not so trouble-some now.

So when IceCool shield does it's job nearly as good as the next two brands, but at much better price, why should I complain ?
There are other aspects to be considered here.

1) Garware is definitely VFM. But, when we compare brands we need to compare many aspects in addition to the specifications. Sun film manufacturing is not a simple process, and quality control and the very process followed during manufacturing plays an important part in how the sun film retains its heat and uv rejection properties over time. Also, the specs given by the manufacturer is as per the test conducted on a sample film. How close the actual film adheres to that standard also depends on the quality control followed by the manufacturer. While, garware is indeed good, 3m and V-Kool has a better name in terms of brand recognition on sun films.

Refer this article to know more about the effects of manufacturing process followed.

2) 10% Extra rejection for 3m means it lets in only 50% of heat as opposed to 60% heat. That means a ( ( 60-50 ) / 60 ) X 100 = 16.67% improvement in terms of heat rejection for the 3m.

3) Whether the 16.67% extra adds to the comfort depends on how hot the surroundings are and for how many months the heat protection is needed. In Kerala's tropical climate ( ghats are an exception ) for example, it's hot when the sun is out irrespective of whether it's winter or summer. Only respite is rains which we get for around 75-100 days in an year. So, it does makes sense to get the best heat rejection available. Same should be the case in most of Tamil Nadu as well.

4) In Kerala, Garware Ice cool costs Rs. 3,500/- whereas 3m costs just Rs. 5,000/- So, even from the VFM perspective, 3m is not too expensive inspite of being a better brand and offering better specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
What a difference a few hundred km makes!

Here in Chennai it is ten sunny months in the year, and the answer is a resounding yes!
Yes, it depends on the location you are in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The website is obsolete but it mentioned HP series and Performance series.

Automotive Window Tinting | Car Window Shades & Tinting | Automobile Window Tinting
Sad to see the kind of attitude shown by Garware in maintaining their website inspite of having such a big market share in India with regards to Sun Films. It's a strenuous process just to find their best sun film!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkapoor777 View Post
I don't think the insurance company should have a problem covering it if its value is declared at the time of sourcing the policy. Don't fall for hearsay or agent-speak, they really do not want to make the effort to find out.
That's a good tip. I'll check with my insurance company as well.
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Old 11th April 2012, 13:37   #1842
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Default 5% extra heat rejection - does it matter at all ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
There are other aspects to be considered here.

1) ..., when we compare brands we need to compare many aspects in addition to the specifications. Sun film manufacturing is not a simple process, and quality control and the very process followed during manufacturing plays an important part in how the sun film retains its heat and uv rejection properties over time. Also, the specs given by the manufacturer is as per the test conducted on a sample film. How close the actual film adheres to that standard also depends on the quality control followed by the manufacturer.
The points you mention are applicable to all manufacturers, VKool, 3M, Llumar or Garware - or any one else.

We got a VFM product, one that does it's job. We are happy with it, and with the service we have got so far. We are not saying 3M is bad or Llumar is, but we are saying that this brand is good & is VFM. When we share experiences, it is for benefit of fellow members. If the experience is good, they can consider it - and then choose the one they want. Some people want a brand name, and they go for it. It's up to them.

IMO, the discussion about how much heat is rejected and what other benefits it can give is more academic than practical, because the 3% of 5% less heat rejection is not going to matter in the real world situations. And I am not going to split hairs over these numbers.
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Old 11th April 2012, 13:51   #1843
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Smile Re: 5% extra heat rejection - does it matter at all ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
The points you mention are applicable to all manufacturers, VKool, 3M, Llumar or Garware - or any one else.

We got a VFM product, one that does it's job. We are happy with it, and with the service we have got so far. We are not saying 3M is bad or Llumar is, but we are saying that this brand is good & is VFM. When we share experiences, it is for benefit of fellow members. If the experience is good, they can consider it - and then choose the one they want. Some people want a brand name, and they go for it. It's up to them.

IMO, the discussion about how much heat is rejected and what other benefits it can give is more academic than practical, because the 3% of 5% less heat rejection is not going to matter in the real world situations. And I am not going to split hairs over these numbers.
1) I've used Garware ( on my old Zen and my mother's new Liva ), V-Kool ( on my old Esteem ) and 3m ( on my Etios ). I do not have anything against any of these brands.

2) You seem to have missed my point. While, this point is applicable to all brands, we tend to trust certain brands more than some other brands. Rayban for example costs 3 times the cost of a fasttrack or reliance's Vision Express. While the associated benefits may not be 3 fold, there are several immeasurable benefits. Quality control affects the durability of the films and how close it is to the mentioned spec on the cover which cannot be measured. My point was that these aspects should not be forgotten while we just compare the specs between brands.

3) I too appreciate garware offering cheap and affordable products. But, given an option ( with adequate funding ), I would choose a 3m over Garware any day. With V-kool, it will be only on certain days because it is too expensive. It all depends from person to person. I was just putting forth my point of view. I'm in no way against brand - Garware. If that was the case, I wouldn't have gone for Garware on my mother's Liva when 3m was not available anywhere. I do trust Garware, but not as 3m or V-Kool.

4) With regards to the practical output, 16.67% is the difference in heat rejection if we just go by the spec. Then we have the hidden factors like
the rate of degrade in heat rejection with age,
how scratch proof the films are ( especially relevant for front windshield ),
what is the probability of fogging and other similar irritants,
the quality of the adhesives used,
How much of heat rejection properties are lost when heating is done on the film during the installation process.
How much the film is close to the actual spec mentioned on the cover
Here, we have no option, but to trust a brand's history, reputation and the capability

Last edited by amalji : 11th April 2012 at 14:05.
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Old 11th April 2012, 13:56   #1844
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post

If you add this to your insurance, will they pay for the film in case of a cracked windscreen?
Insurance company will pay if you declaread while taking insurance. They have provision for add-ons, you need to pay premium or high premium and there you go. It includes your ICE as well.
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Old 11th April 2012, 14:09   #1845
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Default Re: Front windscreen sunfilm?

Just returned from 5000 Kms long trip in grueling heat (36 degree - 42 degree) of North India (Andhra Pradesh, Odisha, Jharkhand, WB, Bihar, UP, MP, Maharashtra, AP). I must say that after I put Garware Ice Cool Shield on front windscreen of my Safari, effect of AC increased and temperature inside cabin maintained between 22 - 24 degrees (my guess).

Condor was aware of this trip of mine as he consulted with me before fixing this film in his Ikon. I told him, I will give you true feedback after returning from this trip.

I can say that my investment on fixing Ice Cool Shield before this trip paid off and recovered completely. Never had to raise AC fan beyond 2. Without film, I had to raise to sometimes three or sometime 4 also.

PS: <<I am not going into debate that if had fixed XX brand film effects would have been more, but price point of view, I do not see novelty value in it. Garware is VFM and it works. >>
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