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Old 22nd April 2005, 23:36   #31
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Could you please elaborate on how 'non-performance' bodykits are unsafe?
At sane speeds, it doesn't matter what body kit you have on your car.

It's only when a car needs more than just tyre grip to keep it on track, does aerodynamics come into play.

The sort of body kits we usually see are mere accessories, they serve no aerodynamic purpose. Chances are, they might infact be spoiling the party for the car.

At high speeds, body kits tested in a wind tunnel will surely be much safer than normal body kits. Vulken, if you can pull it off, it'll the best thing to ever happen here.

Imagine having a body kit, designed to channel air around the car and provide minimum resistance. Such a kit will surely cut a few fractions off your 1/4 mile time.

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Old 22nd April 2005, 23:44   #32
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Shan2nu: Ill repeat myself, as Vulken confirmed we are talking about the regular indian car buyer who wants a bodykit on his car. The question about safety was in that context, and not meant for track/drag racing at higher speeds. Besides he is talking about safety seperately from aerodynamics, so thats why i asked.

"If its the indian scenario we are talking about then we are not reaching speeds high enough to consider downforce. The only performance factor we want is decrease in weight, so why add on weight from a kit in the first place? (not talking about replacement hoods or body panels here)."

Last edited by autopsyche : 22nd April 2005 at 23:45.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 23:57   #33
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Well, body kits don't necessarily have to provide down force. They can help reduce wind resistance, help the car cut through air better, which will help improve acceleration and FE, which ever way you want it.

Aerodynamics is a vast subject. Downforce is just a tiny part of it.

How many people will opt for it will depend on how useful those kits will be on road cars. If people are ready to spend so much on kits that don't do any good, they might as well start spending on the ones that deserve to be on their cars.

And this thing about kits being useful only after 200kmph is not true. A slight increase in wing angle can provide the same down force at 160kmph as that of a less angled wing at 200kmph.

It's very simple, next time you're doing 100kmph, lower your window and put your arm out (with the palm facing down). As you change the angle of your palm, you'll see that the air resistance keeps increasing and your hand keeps getting pushed downwards (or upwards if you angle it the other way around).

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 23rd April 2005 at 00:05.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 00:01   #34
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Yes, thats why i said before the day there is a demand im sure there'll be a supplier. Till now only a non profit organization like Vulkens would be able to satisfy the minority of requests for performance kits. Rest assured, ill be amongst his first customers
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Old 23rd April 2005, 06:23   #35
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Shanu , thanks for the comments, I think you answered all questions of Autopsyche abt safety. Also I would add more, autopsyche; are your kits approved by RTO or by any other agency in the world for safety? If yes, then what you say is right, you do have safety features in your kits. Now your skoda is not a safe vehicle, Please look into that Sir.

Autopsyche, You asked me to sponser your projects, yes I will gladly do; but you not even telling me your procedure of building kits when I Pmed you to help abt pricing and quality. And I seriously doubt you using any techiques used by world class design studio. Man Zagato centrostile people are far better than you in exchanging information..oops sorry for that. I needed to say. So what I like you to do is post your procedures here and lets see if we have a debate over yours and Zagato centrostile. If yours is better, my money comes to you. what you say pal.

I will make kits good in looks, perforamance and safety. otherwise I dont want to play with peoples lifes thats the bottom line.

Btw: aerodynamics play a lot of role in safety as well in acceleration and attaining topspeeds as shanu pointed out. This is not only for drag cars or racing cars alone. Road cars have to pass some kind of safety levels including Cd factor to be on road.

Last edited by Vulken Auto : 23rd April 2005 at 06:38.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 07:52   #36
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Default I believe in concrete evidence, look at mine!!!!!!

Putting some information I gathered during this process.

WARNING!!!!!

The information is meant for Vulken Autodynamics Only. Use of this information apart from meant( for proof of research on BS kits) in any way will be prosecuted.

Materials: We have carbon fiber, reinforced plastics, poly eurethane, PP resin laminate with fiberglass.

the strongest one being the last one, but the minimum qt to be ordered is 10000 pieces. below is an email regarding enquiry.(company not specified for personel reasons)

Dear Mr.Kalyan M Medasani:
Thanks for your reply.
Yes,We can supply GMT bumpers beam and fenders,hoods for vehicles.they are PP resin laminate with fiberglass,
These kind parts are cheaper and strong because mass production in thermoplastic process.
All of the European cars such as BMW,Benz..and American car ,Japanese car and Korea car use GMT parts.
But the GMT car parts only can use for car structures becuse they can not be printing(PP is very difficult for printing)
We can follow your design to produce the GMT car parts for you if your demand quantity is bigger enough.(10,000 min)
or you can tell us which brand type car you need,We can open the mold without your pictures or drawings.
................................................en d................................................. ...

Now for quotation on total design of BS kits by a world class design studio..Timing Breakdown for Body Styling Kit . please visit the link provided.

http://www1.budgethostingweb.com/acc...uiry%20BSK.xls

There are 4 phases in the design cycle to ensure safety, aerodynamics and design clarity and we work for 1000 hrs on one kit with approxx pricing of 50 euros/ hr which comes to 26 lks per kit..with out mold costs..

This is just a tip of my research and will gladly help people who want to be in this line. Look whoose transparant.

Last edited by Vulken Auto : 23rd April 2005 at 07:55.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 08:21   #37
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Default Index to Coefficient of Drag for Many Vehicles

Index to Coefficient of Drag for Many Vehicles Plus Index to Horsepower vs Speed Curves

Please visit this link for details:

http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/tbls.htm

And cd coefficient improves FE


In physics, the drag equation gives the drag experienced by an object moving through a fluid.

D= 1/2 ρ.v(SQUARE). A .Cd

where

D is the force of drag,
Cd is the drag coefficient (a dimensionless constant, e.g. 0.25 to 0.45 for a car),
ρ is the density of the fluid*,
v is the velocity of the object relative to the fluid, and
A is the reference area

We can have a debate if any one wants to give inputs on this

Last edited by Vulken Auto : 23rd April 2005 at 08:32.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:27   #38
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The best example of good aerodynamics would be the NHC. With 77bhp on tap and a body weight of over a ton, who in their right minds wuld have imagined that this baby would be capable of a top speed of 170kmph??

The simple fact is that the NHC has a CD of 0.29. What it loses it terms of sheer power, it gains through a smart aerodynamic package. Another reason why it's got good FE.

And i'm sure the New Vtec with this body and 100+bhp would easily be able to crack the 190kmph barrier. Something even the old Vtec couldn't do.

Aerodynamics can be helpful in so many ways. The options are unlimited.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 23rd April 2005 at 10:29.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:29   #39
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hey i know this is way offtopic but shantanu the fe in the nhc is because ti is DETUNED.
excellent fe at 90-100kmph take it to 120 or 140 you are going to get single digit fe!!
forget 170kmph
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:31   #40
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Lets not turn this into a war.

Vulken, I think you need to work on the way you talk to people. Just having a good product (or in this case, just a rough plan) does not make for a good business, its how you project yourself to others that matters more (Fiat knows all about that).

I think Arush was being honest in his opinion and why should a business person explain to the world how he manufactures things. The information you have given is accessible to anyone with a net connection and an email account.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't ask for opinions if you are not willing to hear them.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:35   #41
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Rtech, I dont think this is a fight !!. Let the discussion continue since its very interesting and as a future automobile engineer I need to know lot of things. Hope you wont object..
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:41   #42
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By all means, let it continue, but just didn't want it to get personal.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:50   #43
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kinda go with what rtech said...someone will definitely have to play the devil's advocate.
vulken, as i said earlier and am saying again you have very good plans BUT need to do a feasibility survey. not only on the forum...but with actual people in the market.
also as you have an mba and lotsa money things can be done as long as the vision is right!!!
points to be noted:
1. you are a non profit organisation
2. you are providing a service/product required for international race cars
3. no. of international race cars in india??????
4. price willing to be paid by a customer whose averge age group is between 20-25???
5. on a car which will be kept by him/her for 2-3 years
6. no of performance minded drivers..a small handful.

think about it kalyan.
really want to do something in the auto industry to boost automtive performance...give me a call
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Old 23rd April 2005, 10:55   #44
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I dont think this is gettin personal. We are trying to solve some things, and if any one has valid information regarding the issues, please post.

Yes ICE what you said is right, I want to get some information from design students also.. india..european or american(if any on tbhp). the information will be very helpful for me.

Last edited by Vulken Auto : 23rd April 2005 at 10:58.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 15:10   #45
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guys i would really appericate if some would tell me whats going on here in SIMPLE english
i am unable to make heads or tails of it.
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