Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th April 2009, 19:42   #136
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
What rail pressure does these CRDI engines runs from factory? & how much pressure does the RD ecu increases?
It is variable depending on speed, revvs etc. But the max rail pressure is approximately 1600 bar. I haven't yet have had a chance to speak to Karthik about the tech details as I was out of town. Once I get a clear chat with him, I shall be in a better position to update this thread.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th April 2009 at 19:45.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 19:47   #137
BHPian
 
Ford Rocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
It is variable depending on speed, revvs etc. But the max rail pressure is approximately 1600 bar.
Thats insane, almost 23206 psi are you sure??? what pump are they using? i am sorry i have not ventured in to diesel tuning hence asking.
Ford Rocam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 19:49   #138
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Ripper, there are two ways of tinkering with the electronics on a Crdi engine. One is by injecting more fuel by widening the pulse width duration time which is what the Pete's does. Second way is to increase the rail pressure in a way such that the injectors feed in more fuel for the same pulse width duration. This is achieved by the RD ecu. By running them both in tandem, it will give us more fuelling (as upgrading injectors on a Crdi unit is quite a complicated process) and should really go well with the bigger turbo. But that would mean putting additional stress on the injectors, fuel rail and the fuel pump. These are the issues we need to figure out.
Thank you very much for the reply. I figured out, that you were trying to increase the fuelling by using both in tandem, and was about to ask you regarding getting bigger injectors as an alternative, but you've probably already looked at that option.
Pity we dont have ready off the shelf injector upgrades like the VAG diesels have.

What are your thoughts about the fuel pump? which is going to cause less strain on it? the current electronic mods, or the upgraded injectors?
Are you able to monitor the rail pressures? If yes, would you please let me know if the tuning box by itself causes a rise in rail pressures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
It can do both.
So at some point, you maybe able to phase out the tuning box, and let the RD ECU take over the fuelling completely? The RD ECU should be able to vary the pulse width too right?

Also, please let me know if you have a shortlist of sorts for good quality EGT gauges.

EDIT
@rocam- yes, according to what I've read, 1600Bar is what most common rails are running now.
@mclaren- will try to wait patiently for updates

Last edited by rippergeo : 6th April 2009 at 20:07.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 20:01   #139
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Thats insane, almost 23206 psi are you sure??? what pump are they using? i am sorry i have not ventured in to diesel tuning hence asking.
Jitu most common rail engines have fuel rail pressures ranging from 1600-1800 bar. I am yet to check on the fuel pump, injectors, rail specs, make etc to find if we can get better components. Thats the next step before we proceed any further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Pity we dont have ready off the shelf injector upgrades like the VAG diesels have.
Actually you can get bigger injectors if you know the right people . But upgrading to bigger injectors has its own complication. Each injector has a coded number that is fed to the ECU. If you change the injectors the coded number on the new injector has to be fed into the ECU for security purposes. Or else this mod wont work. Now to tinker with the ECU would mean advance tools etc which might not be easily available to us.

Quote:
If yes, would you please let me know if the tuning box by itself causes a rise in rail pressures?
Pete's cannot increase the rail pressures.

Quote:
So at some point, you maybe able to phase out the tuning box, and let the RD ECU take over the fuelling completely? The RD ECU should be able to vary the pulse width too right?
In its current state the RD ECU can only tinker around with the rail pressure. Once Karthik and Co come out with a standalone for the diesels, we should be able to have better control over all parameters.

Quote:
Also, please let me know if you have a shortlist of sorts for good quality EGT gauges.
I am in Chennai right now, the list is in Bangalore. I shall PM you in a week or so once i get back.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 20:11   #140
BHPian
 
tadukuttan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 241
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Why use the 2 in tandem? I didnt even know you could do that. Cant the ECU itself do the job of widening the injection pulses? Anyways, if it does work out in making the car go faster without melting the turbo and the exhaust.. thats great news for tuning box users like me.
vbox figures will be on this thread tomorrow. And I am sure it wont melt anything other than the clutch, at least in the short term. Long term, could be a different story, but that is later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Does the ECU raise the rail pressure, or decrease it? or can it do both?
There was some mention of the RD ECU complicating things on the brraj's elantra before this thread was shunted into the bushes, Can we know what the issue was?
I was there when we tested last, there were no complications, just that the right harnesses etc had to be done. If you can call it that, the only "complication" was that both needed to be used to feel the power. Maybe RD guys after further tuning can fix that as well. Or vbox testing will prove other wise. Will know soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
How much does the fuel pump cost in an elantra?
~36K from the showroom, and 15K outside. Each injector is 9K outside, probably 20 from the showroom. I am sure of the outside prices, not sure of the showroom prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@tadu- will you be visiting cochin by any chance?
Will be either at Cochin or Pala this weekend. Where are you in Kerala? Lets try to meet?
tadukuttan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 20:55   #141
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
~36K from the showroom, and 15K outside. Each injector is 9K outside, probably 20 from the showroom. I am sure of the outside prices, not sure of the showroom prices.
Fuel pump only that much?? I remember Sameel mentioning a figure much higher .. Much much higher..
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 20:59   #142
BHPian
 
Ford Rocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Do you guys have hooked up any wideband Lambda meter & measured lambda readings with stock & with petes box, what AFR's deisel run on WOT?
Ford Rocam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 22:01   #143
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

@tadu- i'll be in cochin. I have no clue how the elantra can take so much and still keep running. Amazing.
15k for the fuel pump is worth gambling IMO
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 22:06   #144
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: panchkula
Posts: 362
Thanked: Once
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

LOVE this thread. Bloody good job you guys doing.





cheers
bharti22shresth
bharti22shresth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 22:10   #145
BHPian
 
ssjr0498's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blr-Ccu
Posts: 642
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

2nd that!!

I personally know how it feels to get gyan from ppl who would be able to distinguish between a flywheel and a pulley!!

Having bookish knowledge is one thing and doing it practically is a different ball game altogether!!

Someone's engine blowing up is a issue between him and his tuner period.

We can only "request" the either of them to let us know the problem and that too if "they" want too!! and this too only cuz, we would gain some knowledge from it.

This kind of bashing is totally uncalled for!! and that too on mere presumptions!!


~Shrey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post

Today for the first time on this forum I shall and will stand out and say openly that Rahul and the Elantra team have biased opinions on this forum and have used this forum for their personal needs as they pleased. They have and are continuing to use threads to mal-align "ME" for what intentions I don't care and I know they will continue to do so.

Mods: You are most welcome to take whatever action that pleases you here even banning me I really don't care.
ssjr0498 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 22:29   #146
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 289 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@tadu- i'll be in cochin. I have no clue how the elantra can take so much and still keep running. Amazing.
15k for the fuel pump is worth gambling IMO
I don't think it is 15K. 36 K is more like it..
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 23:14   #147
BHPian
 
memo45_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 299
Thanked: 61 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Thats insane, almost 23206 psi are you sure??? what pump are they using? i am sorry i have not ventured in to diesel tuning hence asking.
Yes Jitu the common rail perssures are very high, even the maruti ddsi sysyem on the swift's use 1400bar pressure, as per their tech manual, they even display a caution symbol in the service manual when working with the fuel syatem.
memo45_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 23:43   #148
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Do you guys have hooked up any wideband Lambda meter & measured lambda readings with stock & with petes box, what AFR's deisel run on WOT?
We did hook up the wideband to the Elantra running Pete's a long time back. Don't remember the values off hand, but I remember posting them somewhere on the forum. Let me see if I can find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
I personally know how it feels to get gyan from ppl who would be able to distinguish between a flywheel and a pulley!!
Shrey, if you want to say something say it directly than beating about the bush. Why don't you go back to figuring out why your VTEC is overheating and try to make it to track next time than poking your nose into something that doesn't even remotely concern you? If you feel like, kindly add something valuable to this thread. Yes, we might all be having bookish knowledge, but atleast we aren't going about destroying engines .
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2009, 00:08   #149
BHPian
 
tadukuttan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 241
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@tadu- i'll be in cochin. I have no clue how the elantra can take so much and still keep running. Amazing.
15k for the fuel pump is worth gambling IMO
I will try to give you a call when I get there. And really, we are not troubling this car too much, else I would not have managed to cross the 1,00,000 Km mark on mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
I don't think it is 15K. 36 K is more like it..
Hm, any particular reason you want to doubt a price quote I got today? And like I said, 36 at the company showroom, 15 in the open/grey market.

Ps. Jomz, please dont report it to Hyundai/Bosch. I am afraid after your threat to expose any helping hands from fuel pump manufacturers...

Last edited by tadukuttan : 7th April 2009 at 00:15.
tadukuttan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2009, 02:40   #150
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 289 Times
Default

I bought 1 pump off the shelf from BOSCH for an engine at 700 euros'. This was supposed to be OEM prices in 2006. I made the purchase order so I'm pretty damn sure.

Keep in mind that the rail was even costlier.

I expect If the OEM sells in market ,they'll include their profit too so should be higher than 700 euros.

I would expect the 700Euro price to be in greymarket. But still again i'm not in touch with the above company for around 1.5 years. Prices might have come down by a bit.

I was not threatening- I don't need to- I was hinting at something which should not be talked about in public by employees of "you know who".

And i dunno how those TKU's will be useful unless you have an ECU with ETK in which you can change the maps. I know Bosch has something in which they can change the maps in production ECU's but I couldnot get to know how they do it. And again you would need INCA (some software for calibrating ETK enabled ECU's) to get maximum advantage of the the TKU's

Last edited by Jomz : 7th April 2009 at 02:47.
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Elantra Petrol vs Elantra CRDi palani81 Sedans 1 24th October 2006 13:59
Elantra GT vs Elantra Crdi(Was skoda vs elantra) azifali Sedans 39 17th August 2006 12:56
elantra crdi gtd vs elantra crdi (leather pack) super_700a Sedans 3 10th August 2006 07:38
Suggest me, Elantra CRDi or Elantra GLS hsmraj Sedans 16 11th April 2006 02:28
Elantra CRDi v/s Used Elantra CRDi v/s New Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi lamborghini Sedans 36 30th January 2006 00:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks