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Old 24th March 2009, 19:02   #16
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7.35, that's a nice timing.
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Old 24th March 2009, 19:13   #17
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Yup, good numbers there! 7.35 is quick indeed!
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Old 24th March 2009, 19:25   #18
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I have another small doubt. Where are you measuring the boost pressure?
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Old 24th March 2009, 19:25   #19
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darn! its raining in cbe!! there goes my work out lolz.

ok here is the low down on this remaping funda.

it can easily give 40-60% increase in output( in case of diesels)

do let me know if you guys have any plans for a meetup in banglore. i will be there from 29th noon till april 10th. got office on weekdays!.

i have some materials and documentation on the EDC16 and EDC17 solenoid systems.
be sure that you guys have a Laptop handy

and hey now since brraj is all set to install the intercooler.
lets dwell into the finer details.

i hope the Greddy boost controller reads the pressure at turbo outlet??( is that how it is set or it measures the intake pressure:?)
well if the turbo output is shown as 16.5 -17.5Psi then the actual boost into the cylinder is lesser in the region of 14.5Psi.( you need pressure difference to drive in the air.. depends on the tract length and the positioning. vertical ones are better suited to reduce the pressure drop required. but sadly installing the bigger intercooler is possible only horizontally)

now when the larger intercooler is introduced. the drop i.e the difference will be in the region of 4-5 Psi will be required. so the thing is unless the turbo now puts out 18.5-20Psi, the intake wont be at 14.5 Psi.

please note that the turbo charger has a limit on the out put pressure it can put out!
it will be better to frst measure the temp. of air at inlet of intercooler and outlet!
the basic funda is to bring the outlet temp of interccoler down to room temp. as much as possible.

am bored and hungry lolz.
more later!
and the numbers hmmm. upto 100kmph should be in range of 10-11secs!( with petes alone!)
but the fun factor will be 100+kmph to 220kmph right?? hehe

Last edited by sameel : 24th March 2009 at 19:28.
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Old 24th March 2009, 21:02   #20
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This is the turbo being used in the elantra:

Code: 49173-02410
OE Part number: 2823127000 / 28231-27000
Features
Description: Trajet CRDi
Turbo Model: TD025M-09T-3.3
Engine Manufacturer: Hyundai
Displacement: 2.0 - 4
KW: 112-125 HP
FuelD: I D
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi
Engine Model: D4EA

Don't be fooled by the "TD025" in "TD025M-09T" it is not manufactured by Garrett. But it is manufactured by a Korean company called "Keyyang". You can get more details here.

There is no information available on this turbo excepting that the company claims it can spin up to 2,20,000 RPM. So there is no way of verifying the limits of this turbo.

Now a look at the exhaust manifold:



It is for the D4EA and it is too restrictive to go above 1 bar. I know people have pushed it to 20PSI but the backpressure will be too high. Not to mention the efficiency range of the turbo itself.

As for the KWP2000 yes it look promising enough to be able to flash the ECU but remember it may not be able to take a backup of the existing map.

brraj the acceleration numbers are really good and yes the intercooler will improve performance further (albeit with a slight drop of pressure). I would reccomend a slow and steady approach now to pushing the limits rather than going the whole hog. (By the way Karthik has a good standalone now for CRDI's could help maintain a close look at the performance of the vehicle while tuning it : just thinking out of the box).

Wish you all the best.
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Old 24th March 2009, 21:20   #21
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Nice car.BTW is there any difference using 205/55 PP2 instead of 205/60??
I use 205/60 and Iam pretty happy with the perfomance but the wear of the front tires is very high.
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Old 24th March 2009, 22:20   #22
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Nice build, great timings as well. It's heartening to see someone going down the less-taken path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brraj View Post
Greddy Profec B Spec 2 - boost controller (rs.28000)
Seems a bit expensive.
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Old 24th March 2009, 22:28   #23
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nice post yaar
yes the kwp2000 unit can read the onchip map. and backing it up is our headache. lolz.
it can write user defined maps also.

i also support the RD piggybac ECU its good stuff. but its written mainly for the EDC16C39 units of swift CRDi i presume.

the turbo is a korean one meaning its not going to be as good as the Garret. ( lets face the facts!)

what i suggest is to just make th existing set-up run smoothly with the advantage of the added intercooler.

once there is a proper turbo upgrade it will be ok to go for higher boosts.
the one safe bet would be to go for the VGT on the Sonata it costs 75k rs from OEM hyundai. it might be available for 60k from grey market. but then the ECU is EDC16 unit. and the gear box also would have to be changed.( if one pans to use the same ECU. it will have the Gear Shift Hrmonisation Demand. set for Tra_num gear ranges 1-6!) too much headache.! a proper Garret turbo is required if real mods are to be tested to its limits.

and hey back pressure will be a hassle in case of petrol engines. in diesel its not much much of a problem right??

i suspect that the RD unit is universal type. will go with any CRdi unit!
irrespective of the ECU generation..

the thing is with the boost setup. if its according to gears then it will be well sorted in that the turbo will be under max load only when the car is in fifth gear. and so are other components.

what about the piping and stuff! if the turbo is to be run in higher boost all the time then the first thing should be to get the piping and related stuff done up.! ( even for the gear related boost settings also the safe way is to do reinforced piping!)

and just a thing. i am pretty sure the car would be topping out to 220kmph most of the times. so there wont be much to do in increasing the top whack unless a custom gear box with longer gearing is considered. but as far as i know no one makes custom gearbox for the elantra! even a stage 2 clutch will have to be fabricated custom!!.

so lets leave that.
the only thing now left with current turbo would be to increase the acceleration figures!

here there are limitations.

this is diesel teritory
4500rpm and you are off. !!

so the trick is to do the mods keeping in mind the low end torque!( mid range will be awesome anyways. top end can be done using the boost controller)
two ways to increase it.
either increase the MI1 injection duration and the Poi2 injection duration( already being done by the injectors via the tuning box!)

or increase the feul injected per second ( bigger injectors!!) there is a catch here. only if the injectors( bigger ones run off the same current level, they can be run by the ECU other wise an amp would be needed! but still the EDC15C2 unit would have to be reflashed with new parameters taken into account i menat the ZFC ( zero feul correction) and hell lot of other parameters.
this approach would be too much time consuming and difficult to approach. ( only if the system was simple as a normal DI engine. this would have been possible rather easily. lol)

so lets stick to the first approach.

this will be possible as two maps will do the trick( there are a lot of submaps involved but yes it can be done rather easily)

the FMTC map and the Energization map of the solenoid valves.

the valves are energised( started to energize SOE) by dynamic interupts that occur when the Crank shaft reaches a particular angle. ( there are time based calculation also..lets not go that technical now.)

so the remapping can be done two ways one make the FMTC map such that the Main injection is prolonged more than normal( simply feed the input to maps as more torque is requirred) the map gives an output to vale Energization map this much quantity of feul is required and for injecting that much quantity of feul valves must be open for longer time which the ECU will take care of Provided the DRY conditions are not violated( mainly cylinder capacity and load capacity and injection overlapps also)

the next one is down right dirty and dangerous method. the .c file itself is modified so as to produce a dynamic interupt! at a before angle. than normal crank shaft angle. so what happens instead a normal injection( MI1 supposed to start at X degree of crank shaft, will start at an angle X-Y degree!!) and hence in effect we get an early injection( iif not done properly there will be misfiring! - this is risky business and only well certfified guys like me or typically CALIBRATION ENGINEERS can do this. and that we do it with real time logging from Closed loop VIVA lab car or actual vehicle!!)

here the advantage is that the low end torque can be made to come through from almost as low as 400-500rpm from idling i.e the shove will be felt from 1400rpm till 4.5Krpm!!

so wish brraj all the best for the build of the fastest Elantra CRDi from the south!! lets wait and see..

gonna watch a movie now. bit lazy

cheers
sameel
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Old 25th March 2009, 00:02   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
the turbo is a korean one meaning its not going to be as good as the Garret. ( lets face the facts!)

a proper Garret turbo is required if real mods are to be tested to its limits.
The turbo may be built in Korea (which isnt necessarily a bad thing), but it is in fact a Mitsubishi design. You may be well into the outer efficiency islands on that at 20 psi, but on a diesel does IAT matter that much? I think not.
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Old 25th March 2009, 01:09   #25
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Sorry to barge in your discussion guys but just couldn't stop.
@brraj- That car's wicked!! Next up in the modifications list should be a pair of black horns


cheers
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Old 25th March 2009, 04:33   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
By the way Karthik has a good standalone now for CRDI's could help maintain a close look at the performance of the vehicle while tuning it : just thinking out of the box.
Thats the next step, actually its been a long wait for the ECU's to be launched officially. Infact, Rajiv was one of the first ones to volunteer to test the ECU back in its nascent stage, but somehow it could never see the light of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Nice build, great timings as well. It's heartening to see someone going down the less-taken path.
Satya's car is faster. Rajiv is just about getting there. Vijay has just bitten the dust. So we are soon going to have some pretty mad Elantra's out there.

Quote:
Seems a bit expensive.
Ya! The stuff was flown in in 3 days flat thru Fed-ex on priority, with duty, customs paid in full, installation charges etc. Do the math.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 25th March 2009 at 04:34.
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Old 25th March 2009, 09:52   #27
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Fantastic job Rajiv,Rahul,Satya et al. You bangy guys are really upping the ante on the diesels.I see myself driving down to Bangalore in my Elantra soon
@mclaren - Where did you guys get the stuff flown in from?

Last edited by maverick030581 : 25th March 2009 at 09:54.
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Old 25th March 2009, 10:40   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick030581 View Post
@mclaren - Where did you guys get the stuff flown in from?
Posting this for mclaren as he is too lazy to log into his own account. All the stuff was flown in from the USofA.
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Old 25th March 2009, 12:11   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
Congrats! But isn't this thread in the wrong section?
My bad, may be i was dreaming of inter cooler installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I have another small doubt. Where are you measuring the boost pressure?
Boost pressure is measured at the inlet manifold to get the most accurate reading and as Greedy has digital display we can see the psi reading as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
ok here is the low down on this remaping funda.
It can easily give 40-60% increase in output( in case of diesels)
Is it safe to go for a 60% increase from stock?
If yes than what are all the other parameters should we take care.

In captiva stock itself gives 150bhp and has the same engine. I know its a VGT and has tuned ECU but apart from that what are all the other parameters do we need to take care.

Detailed comparison between Capativa & Elantra performance parameters will be a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
do let me know if you guys have any plans for a meet up in Bangalore. i will be there from 29th noon till april 10th. got office on weekdays!.
We can meet on 29th evening, will put the details in Quick bangy meets so watch for the space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
i have some materials and documentation on the EDC16 and EDC17 solenoid systems.
be sure that you guys have a Laptop handy
sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
It is for the D4EA and it is too restrictive to go above 1 bar. I know people have pushed it to 20PSI but the backpressure will be too high. Not to mention the efficiency range of the turbo itself.
This is very much true, but for time being we have removed catalytic converter. We are also trying to check if sonata embera exhaust can be fitted for it.

Thanks for the info and the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
As for the KWP2000 yes it look promising enough to be able to flash the ECU but remember it may not be able to take a backup of the existing map.
If there is no backup of the existing map i have to think twice before installing it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
(By the way Karthik has a good standalone now for CRDI's could help maintain a close look at the performance of the vehicle while tuning it : just thinking out of the box).

Wish you all the best.
Time to call RDKarthik .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veelubai View Post
Nice car.BTW is there any difference using 205/55 PP2 instead of 205/60??
I use 205/60 and Iam pretty happy with the performance but the wear of the front tires is very high.
Not much of a difference, I prefer 205/60 pp2 as mine will touch the humps if there is a heavy load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Nice build, great timings as well.
Thanks dude

sameel: As far as i know RDkArthik diesel ECUs are generic to CRDIs any way will check with him once he picks up my phone

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharti22shresth View Post
@brraj- That car's wicked!!
Thanks dude

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick030581 View Post
You bangy guys are really upping the ante on the diesels.I see myself driving down to Bangalore in my Elantra soon
Why dont you drive from bombay and join us for a night drive, Even we did a bombay trip just for a drive.
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Old 25th March 2009, 12:18   #30
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@sameel i admire at your postings, though it’s bitter to understand the knowledge you are blessed with.

Raj: wanna drive your monster man how about next T-bhp meet?
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