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Old 1st April 2009, 02:34   #76
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Fortunately for us, this info comes from highly qualified tech people from Hyundai and we were advised never to open that head for mechanical engine mods.
So you mean to say your highly qualified tech person from hyundai said it is ok to go up to 21 psi boost without fuelling upgrades on the engine but it is unsafe to open the head. Wonder what do they do when the valve guides or seats wear out under the additional stress, replace the head.

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Old 1st April 2009, 03:17   #77
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Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
So you mean to say your highly qualified tech person from hyundai said it is ok to go up to 21 psi boost without fuelling upgrades on the engine but it is unsafe to open the head. Wonder what do they do when the valve guides or seats wear out under the additional stress, replace the head.
Keshav, infact they did say the same engine can take upto 1.5bar boost easily. And FYI, Pete's is taking care of the fuelling for now. Rajiv tried the RD ECU, but it has its own complications which we are yet to sort out. More on that a little later. What they said is, its unsafe to P&P a Hyundai (basically any Detroit Diesel engine) as they are very sensitive (not in a positive way) to engine mods to "make more power". I am sure you off all people know the difference between opening the head for an engine overhaul and modding.

From whatever I have seen the cars running, they are keeping up with stock RS' and though I might be highly optimistic dynolicious threw up a 0-100 of 7.5 secs which IMO is quite a few secs away from the stock timing (not taking these timings as actual 0-100 figures, but just trying to point out that there is a lot of difference from a stock car also tested on Dynolicious, so obviously the mods are working). Satya's car has been taken a few steps further than Rajiv's car and already clocked 20,000 kms+ and has proven to be really reliable and hasn't broken down "even once" like most other modded petrol cars . So I guess, they are going down the right path for now. There are further plans in the fray, lets see how it goes.

PS: For pics on the runs done on dynolicious on different states of tunes, kindly check the Dynolicious thread on this very forum.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 1st April 2009 at 03:28.
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Old 1st April 2009, 09:02   #78
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What they said is, its unsafe to P&P a Hyundai (basically any Detroit Diesel engine) as they are very sensitive (not in a positive way) to engine mods to "make more power".
While I dont know about safe or unsafe, I would say that the cost-benefit ratio of porting a head designed after about 2001 is pretty low in a boosted engine.
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Old 1st April 2009, 09:44   #79
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@ananth: That's a pretty generic statement for boosted engines especially with upgraded fuel management the returns are high if the cfm throughput can be further improved.
@Mclaren: you've got the gains doesn't mean it cannot be improved whatever the engine
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Old 1st April 2009, 22:10   #80
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Well, I should have been clearer, let me rephrase that.

I would say that the cost-benefit ratio of porting a head designed after about 2001, without complimentary mods to the valve seats/valves/combustion chamber is pretty low in a boosted engine.
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Old 1st April 2009, 23:45   #81
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@Mclaren: you've got the gains doesn't mean it cannot be improved whatever the engine
Keshav, do realize that these Elantra's arent thoroughbred race cars which need to prove their worth on a track or a dragstrip. They are daily drivers and the path these mad uncles wanted to take from day 1 is to not open the engine. The fact was further supported by some of the tech people we approached for advise. So I guess we should leave it at that.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 01:36   #82
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Fortunately for us, this info comes from highly qualified tech people from Hyundai and we were advised never to open that head for mechanical engine mods.
That's the right approach. If they say so, I'm pretty sure it must be the truth.

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I would say that the cost-benefit ratio of porting a head designed after about 2001
Why after 2001? HAL designed them?

The Elantra was on sale in 2001, so I'm guessing the engine was developed atleast a year earlier, probably in the late '90s.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 02:02   #83
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Why after 2001? HAL designed them?
They may as well have. That's in the same ballpark as when the new generation direct injection diesels came out, and from what I hear from friends in the industry, HUGE amounts of R&D money has gone into developing the port and combustion chamber geometry.

Considerably more than the equivalent gasoline engine.

Diesel combustion is very different from spark-ignition and its not just about how many CFM you can flow. I doubt if any aftermarket tuners can make a sizable improvement to peak power without hurting something else badly. IMO the Hyundai people have rightly advised mclaren1885 against porting and such. Just my opinion, but I'll be happy if someone proves me wrong.

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Old 2nd April 2009, 11:23   #84
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They are daily drivers and the path these mad uncles wanted to take from day 1 is to not open the engine.
So be it, was never saying that it needs to be done was just pointing out the merits.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 08:52   #85
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So be it, was never saying that it needs to be done was just pointing out the merits.
Keshav, I get your point. But, when the people who design these engines themselves say its unsafe and practically makes no sense to P&P the engine I guess we should listen to them? After all, they are technically way more more sound and experienced about these engines that they have designed and built from scratch themselves.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 09:55   #86
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Can you please let me know what pyrometers/EGT gauges you plan to use, and what the price range is.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 12:06   #87
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Keshav, I get your point. But, when the people who design these engines themselves say its unsafe and practically makes no sense to P&P the engine I guess we should listen to them? After all, they are technically way more more sound and experienced about these engines that they have designed and built from scratch themselves.
Thank you for the gyan but you ought to know that Hyundai's engine ranges are typically replicas of existing Mitsubishi unit's. So if you tell me they have designed them I shall still find it hard to believe. I do not want o go away from the core of this thread and leave this discussion right here.

No I do not believe in having the last word so please carry on with the discussion I think I shall just stand aside. (Request you to please stop picking on my posts every time.)

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Old 3rd April 2009, 15:27   #88
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Fortunately for us, this info comes from highly qualified tech people from Hyundai and we were advised never to open that head for mechanical engine mods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
What they said is, its unsafe to P&P a Hyundai (basically any Detroit Diesel engine) as they are very sensitive (not in a positive way) to engine mods to "make more power".
Since when did we start taking advice from company folks on whether we can do something to an engine or not. If this was the case then the tuning scene would have become extinct a very long time ago.

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Old 3rd April 2009, 20:29   #89
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What remains to be understood here is that the elantra does not use a variable geometry turbo as stock, i.e, the ECM would disrespect any amount pressure altered at the pre and post manifold to give any added delivery. A bigger intercooler can never boost top speed but would marginally help you to gain initial momentum.

The pressure sensor of the boost control valve in the stock car has no setting unlike the verna which has an adjustable one but only to decrease the feel of the lag and again not top speed. I suggest the easiest way out with all the mods you have considered minus the intercooler and the GREDDY unit remain as it is, would be to just make the expansion chamber of the exhaust [centre piece] free of all the baffle plates and stainers and weld it back.

Check out this car again and feel the amazing difference it would make to your 0-100 sprint without the complications of the intercoolers and the boost settings.

Have already tried this successfully on a merc 200 CDI 2002 and failed miserably with the intercoolers mods on the older Endeavour [2.5 non TDCI]. The major factor being that the valves are just not prepared to accept this increase in pressure and have undue load on the cam. The fun is very short lived and i feel you must seriously reconsider the boost thingy once again.

would be keen to have the opinion of the others too on this with relative experience on complicated irreversible mods.
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Old 4th April 2009, 04:12   #90
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(Request you to please stop picking on my posts every time.)
To begin with I am not giving you any gyan. Nor am I picking your posts. I am just telling you that P&P a detroit diesel engine will not yield the kind of results you said it would, thats all. Just want to make sure such statements don't misguide others into opening up their engines to P&P and waste their money and risk the fact of blowing their engines.

Also the link you have posted I guess shows only the engines names for the petrol versions, not the diesel?

PS: If you haven't noticed I haven't raised any objections to the other mods you have suggested except for the P&P.

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Since when did we start taking advice from company folks on whether we can do something to an engine or not. If this was the case then the tuning scene would have become extinct a very long time ago.
Vikram, obviously you still haven't gotten through to the right people in Maruti who can actually assist you with good info while modding your car. Better luck in future.

FYI, some of the info I have mentioned comes from highly qualified engineers from the "engine manufacturers" themselves (not just Hyundai) who I am sure have done more R&D than any of us here have. But since this info cannot be shared in public due to their company policy, anyone who is eager to mod their CRDi units is welcome to mail/PM me for a more detailed info.

My only suggestion to those owning a Verna, Captiva, Magnum, Sonata, Elantra etc would be, don't listen to any tuner and P&P your diesel engined car.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 4th April 2009 at 04:28.
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