Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th April 2009, 23:31   #1
BHPian
 
civ4647's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vizag
Posts: 90
Thanked: 172 Times
Default What are the options for civic engine mods??

hi, i would like to know what all options are available for more performance for a civic. (cost not being a problem).

i currently have a K&N Typhoon intake, Magnaflow catback. Is there anyone who would be able to make a custom Header which would replace the cat and then connect to my catback.

wat kind of gains can i expect from stuff like porting and polishing etc.

and what are the feasible engine swaps and who would be the right person to get an engine and do the swap??

also what are my options for turbocharging the R18?? wat fuel would i have to run?? getting proper fuel is a problem where i am from.

it would be really helpful if you guys let me know of any other modifications which are possible.

thanks
civ4647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 02:30   #2
BHPian
 
vikram18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: pune
Posts: 615
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

look up Honda Civic Parts Source
vikram18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 08:43   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

There is a Weapon R header which replaces the cat. The headers for the R18 are a pointless affair because there is only one exhaust port. You just need a downpipe from the head to the catback.

No idea about port/polishing.

I've been researching a lot about engine swaps. Our cars are the FD1 JDM chassis. The FD2 chassis is similar except for : spot welded to reduce flex and a slightly wider front fender, brembo brakes on the Type-R and revised suspension. It comes with two engines better than the the R18 - the K20Z2 which produces 155BHP and the Type R monster, the K20A which makes an astonishing 225BHP. The latter requires 100RON fuel, so it is a no go here. The former will make only about 10BHP more than our R18s when tuned to Indian fuel, which is pretty useless.

Therefore, the only real option is the K24 series. There's quite a few to choose from, the best being the K24A2 from the Acura TSX to the least powerful, the K24A8 from the USDM Accord, which is also released in India. There is also the option of using the 2.4L CR-V engine. There are also frankenstein swaps, which utilize a K24 block with a high flowing K20 head with complete 3 lobed VTEC. The Accord engine for example, is castrated with only the economy VTEC system. However, putting a proper head on the Accord block has its own challenges as the pistons will need changing. But not all K24 blocks have problems with it. Most can accept a proper head simply bolted on. A proper K24 swap will net you more than 250BHP, naturally aspirated, on normal pump fuel available here. You can change the pistons to allow forced induction (lower compression ratio) if you wish and make around 400BHP with the stock internals (no sleeves, no forged pistons/crank etc etc) with 95 AKI petrol. I'm guessing 350 with our fuel. Standard issues with engine swaps apply - if you get a used engine straight from an engine parts shop, it will be cheap, but it will require rebuilding. If you get a crate engine from a tuner shop abroad, it will be expensive.

You'll need a CR-V mount to let the engine sit flush in the engine compartment. You'll need to reroute the A/C lines. You'll need to figure out which gearbox works with your engine. There's quite a few to choose from depending on which block you go with and which year said block is. You'll probably need to change some of the ancillaries like the oil pump. You'll need different belts.

However, with the engine comes a bigger problem. The ECU. You'll need an aftermarket ECU to run frankenstein swaps. The easiest choice is k-PRO, by Hondata. They modify the stock ECU to let you have a fully tunable ECU. However, they do not support 2006+ Civics in any market. The problem is that 2006+ Civics, be it JDM/USDM/EUDM, all have the fancy dash. These dashes use the CAN bus to run the dash instead of plain ole' analog stuff. So everything on the dash is run by the ECU. When you put the nice K24 engine in with the K24 ECU, k-PROed or not, your dash will no longer work. The only choice right now is to run an aftermarket dash like the Pi Xsport.

The other choice is standalone systems like AEM and such. But making them work with the complicated i-VTEC system and the other electronics in the car is complicated to say the least and excruciatingly painful to say a little more. You'll lose airbags, A/C etc etc. Even pros like Bobby Jayaram had enough trouble getting just the FIC to work on their turbo R18 setup.

I know the CAN bus and I've worked with micro controllers in the past using that bus. If I end up doing it, I'll make a board myself that will run the dash with the K24 ECU. Or, if we are lucky, Hondata will come out with a k-PRO which works with 2006+ ECUs. There are some other solutions which make both ECUs work in tandem, with the k-PRO running the engine and the original ECU running the electronics. That is another can of worms though.

In short, you'll need a fantastic engineer who knows his stuff and has a tuning shop with all the bells and whistles, contacts to import the parts (if you are using the Accord engine, you can avoid the hassles of importing the full engine), a tuner who can dance with a k-PRO (you may have to fly him down), lots and lots of money (USD 10K for the hardware, at a minimum), a lot of patience, and a spare car.

Is it worth it? Well, I'd love to have 250BHP in my car. PM me if you want to know some starting points if you are going for this.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 13th April 2009 at 08:47.
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 08:59   #4
BHPian
 
srijit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 594
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Immortalz, that was a pleasure to read
srijit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 09:12   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

Did you know they are now swapping K24s into Honda Fits? It is otherwise known as the Jazz. A 250BHP Jazz would be quite awesome

Thanks srijit.
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 09:22   #6
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: shenzen
Posts: 154
Thanked: 23 Times
Default some idea for honda engine modification

hi
well since honda civic have r18 engine
one smart modification can be to make the engine 2000 cc
since r20 engine also sold in malasiya
for change from 1800cc to 2000c
just needed change pistons of 2000c connection rods
and cranckshaft and timing chain
well this info i get from my hongkong tunner
who has tunned my toyota yaris from 1.6 to
1.8
also with this u keep u original stock ecu
the ecu can adjust so i think would me smart mods
this mods cost me 10,000 rmb in china
approx 75,000 rupees
before i had turbo
but it was bad experince with turbo
regards
narry
narry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 10:10   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

The R20A in JDM tune makes 148BHP. The R18A in JDM tune makes 138BHP.

Considering the Indian R18A comes tuned to ~129BHP, 75,000/- for a 10BHP gain is a catastrophic waste of money. You still don't get real VTEC.

Meh, my motto is, go big or go home.

Let's consider we take a 1.8V and do it up the K24 Frank way, with better brakes, suspension, exhaust, intake, tuning, ICE, all inclusive, it's gonna cost you... let's say Accord V6 money when you are done, if we get no deals at all (trust me, you will) and we go to the best place with the best dudes and fly in a tuner. For that, you get a razor sharp car with power which will let you trade blows with Germans twice as expensive. And if you do it right, you are still going to keep the Japanese reliability. And I can park this thing, just about, in my house.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 13th April 2009 at 10:16.
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 11:45   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Kind of think you could read up a bit more on Kraftwerks and TSI they have kits for the car.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 12:02   #9
BHPian
 
abhayshanu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 694
Thanked: 168 Times
Default

Hey ImmortalZ,i am also looking to swap in the future,for my OHC,I was thinking of not getting the usual D16B,but a B18C,i know its old but i an quite impressed,Here is the information on it from wiki,

B18C (Type R)
VTEC
Found in:
JDM Honda Integra Type R
Power: 205 hp (153 kW) @ 8500 rpm
Rev-limit: 8,900 rpm
VTEC engagement@5,800 rpm
137 ftlbf (186 Nm) @ 4200 rpm
Transmission Type: 5-speed standard with LSD
Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in)
Compression:y 11:0:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.189 in)
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433 in)
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429 in)
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
Transmission: J4D (96specR w/ LSD)N3E (98specR w/LSD)
abhayshanu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 13:24   #10
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: shenzen
Posts: 154
Thanked: 23 Times
Default k24 engine

hi

Well k24 engine is dohc, if you change r18 to dohc you have to modify engine bay change suspension. Also change wiring and ecu completely, how it can be cheaper? i donot understand.
narry

Last edited by Jaggu : 13th April 2009 at 15:00. Reason: Please take time to type in full english and with proper punctuations. Thanks
narry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 13:33   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

For swaps into the City, I think you're better off asking Ford_Rocam. He has a super fast City on the forum that has more than 350BHP to the wheels. All the people I've contacted for info, it was all about K swaps into Civics. Sorry I can't be of more help.

@Psycho : Checked out Kraftwerks. They do have supercharger kits for the K series. Still is an engine swap away. I've seen the TSI kits before. They seem to have improved the FIC base map too. Hmm... *runs off to check for user reviews*
ImmortalZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 14:02   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
m4ugr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,291
Thanked: 123 Times
Default

I am really satisfied with the Way my car is performing after the Remap and K&N Typhoon Kit. A Weapon-R Header and Intake manifold should be enough to full-fill my needs.

Though the options mentioned by ImmortalZ are worth the effort if done right. you would need a really good tuner for that.

TSI has a kit, but i guess they are problems tuning the AEM Fuel controller, I guess you should wait for the HKS Kit, which is expected soon, Or i guess is in testing phases which will come with an RD Standalone.
m4ugr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 14:11   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
TSI has a kit, but i guess they are problems tuning the AEM Fuel controller,
Based on what I have heard it has problems with altitude correction, and would be critical for a tuner to correct the tune from the base tune for the specific altitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
I guess you should wait for the HKS Kit, which is expected soon, Or i guess is in testing phases which will come with an RD Standalone.
Have heard about it too, the specs sound pretty good for Indian conditions just got to wait and see.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 14:47   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
ST7677's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 45 Times
Default

Engine swap is not really an option, is it???

The car becomes illegal - There is no RTO approval and no insurance cover

There is almost no resale value left in the car

New engines are very expensive, used engines may have been abused – there is no gaurentee

Different engines have different engine mounts and gearbox integration getting them to match is difficult though not impossible

Unless done very well reliability issues may still plague – must go with a previously tried and proven option - not many for R18 swap

In new Civic there are lot of electronic complications with the Engine immobilizer, Drive by wire, ECU, etc like immortalz already mentioned.

Most expensive option




IMO Turbo seems to be a decent option...
The base maps on AEM are stable now (for US version) and it should not be so difficult for a seasoned tuner to tune them...

R18A seems to hold up boost well, I read people are boosting 10-12psi on the TSI kit without any problems, we will see more as time progresses

You can still get decent FE as long as you stay out of boost. Which would not be the case in case you do an engine swap

Last edited by ST7677 : 13th April 2009 at 14:48.
ST7677 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2009, 15:10   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
ST7677's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 45 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8
A Weapon-R Header and Intake manifold should be enough to full-fill my needs.
It will free up some power in higher band but, you would loose lot of low end torque, which will impact your city drivability. I would not recommend it.





I can't find any links or information on HKS turbo kit for R18, can you please share the links?
Is this the Zage kit being talked about? I guess that does not have very good reputation!

Last edited by ST7677 : 13th April 2009 at 15:12.
ST7677 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda Civic Mods rakeshxp Modifications & Accessories 67 6th October 2012 11:54
My Civic Mods + cool DIYs + Kiwi OBD tool + ICE upgrade = Awesomeness! dynomite DIY - Do it yourself 14 29th July 2012 13:43
Vikram18's Civic Mods. V-16 Modifications & Accessories 33 21st September 2009 19:52
Mods for Civic Vs Mods for Laura redsfx Modifications & Accessories 15 19th November 2007 21:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks