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Old 10th May 2009, 23:09   #256
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whew! that was some heavy thread! I read right tru from somewhere in between and I must say.. 'the air was so thick that I could have sliced it"
a lot of hard words and deeds!

lets kill this horse instead!
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Old 10th May 2009, 23:29   #257
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Originally Posted by johnda View Post
lets kill this horse instead!
That horse is already dead ain't it??
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Old 11th May 2009, 08:09   #258
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thats right JayD, now trying to bury it LOL
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Old 11th May 2009, 21:50   #259
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Amit, first and foremost hats off to you for finally coming out with this story. Its been pending for a long time. I just wish others like Jay would come out with their bit. We have all been hearing these off the forum, but many more who are unaware need to be educated of the nuances of wanting to mod or own a fast car.

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Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
Point to ponder what if the work has not been done in the country before?
As someone who has borne the brunt of such an experiment, I would advise tuners to SPELL IT OUT clearly to customers of the risks involved and the immediate reliability factors to be taken into account than brushing them under the carpet.

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Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
I did not question him as most know once he has his mind set on it he wont accept any other ideas suggestions.
Not to give this a personal angel, but I agree to what Amit has to say here. I have myself faced this problem. Once Keshav makes up his mind, he wont listen to anyone. His famous dialogue "You have no clue" comes to mind .

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No apologies no explanations none of it.
Once again I shall agree with this fact. When something goes wrong, if its your mistake the least I expected from my tuner is to accept the fault and sort it out the subsequent time. But to my bad luck, no diagnosis was done on what was causing head gaskets to blow one after the other. I was just asked to drop the car off at the garage, a rebuild done and I was asked to pay huge amounts each time. After the 3rd time the engine blew, I realized it was time to change the tuner as I had too many questions to which I didn't get any answers.

Quote:
This is when I stepped in changed the radiator cap and guess what Problem solved!!!!!!
Like I mentioned earlier, diagnosis of why the problem persists seems to be lacking. The very same reason lead me to have many many sleepless nights.


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Yes the cost went throught the roof about 6-7 times the quote. Again assured payment is not an issue can be done at my convenience.
All these promises are valid only up until the car is dropped off at the garage and some initial advance paid. Since after that the customer cannot back out, the terms are then dictated by the tuner. I have had this instance where I spent nearly 1L+ for a build to take part in Bombay Speed Run and I was refused to take the delivery of my car two days before the drag since I couldn't make a payment of 10k after being promised at the very beginning money would not be an issue.

Quote:
Day after car back to stock form was called every hour to go and make payment. Till date I have not gotten an explanation of charges which were questioned by me. Still was avoided by Keshav.
Amit, fortunately you didn't have to bear the brunt of being abused, threatened to be beaten up, rumours that you had run away with a huge sum of unpaid money etc that some of us others have faced.


Quote:
I am in good terms with Vasu and Keshav today. Go to he garage regularly to meet them or get minor work done like oil change,plugs etc.etc.
Once again, not everyone is as lucky as you. After almost a year after this fiasco with my baleno I happened to visit Sag Racing just to say hi to Vasu Anna as I was passing by his place. Cmiuc, brraj were along with me. When I entered Sag Racing, Keshav threatened to beat me up if I didn't leave the garage and charged at me. Vikram and theMag who were also present silently watched the show without trying to stop Keshav.

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But Will I modify my car at the garage again or no is something I have to think about,till date I have refrained from doing so.
Exactly the stand that I took to. Vasu Anna asked me several times that he would like to TC my car after all this. Yet I refrained from entering that place for getting any work done on my car. Yes, I do still keep in touch with Vasu Anna for he is a very nice guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie
BUT end of the day the responsiblity is on the tuner no matter how qualified the mechanic turns out to be. Though he had no choice but to stay away from the garage in the midst of the problems that he was facing, end of the day the onus is on him to take responsiblity.
Completely agree that at the end the tuner has to take the responsiblity. Point in case here, if the tuner wasn't around the work should have been postponed until a time the tuner could see for it himself. By Keshav sighting personal reasons for his absence Vasu Anna seems to have done some damage to his reputation here since he then becomes responsible for the work in Keshav's absence.

Quote:
The problems crop up when you trust someone who doesnt (probably) share the same enthusiasm or connern about the build as yourself.
The whole problem arises when you make the mistake of trusting someone. I did the same mistake too, so did many others who still chose to remain silent on their horror stories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
Only thing I can say was keshav made a wrong call with the g15 and then there was no communication between tuner and mechanic
What most people didn't realize when I put up my dark side thread is that, Keshav went wrong while calculating the compression ratio my build would end up with. What set out as a promise to build a engine that would run on pump gas ended up with it needing 100+ Oct fuel for daily drive. Who is to be blamed for it? And Keshav was nowhere around to accept the blame in my case. And he never insisted I pick up an after market ECU, since Keshav was confident that his "Jugaad" job would work instead. Almost all my problems could have been solved if he had asked me to pick up a ECU instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiablo View Post
The first one to come out with the dark side of modding was Rahul. Just adding it to this thread to keep everything in one place.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...dark-side.html (What it takes to own a modded ride - Part II. The dark side!)
Mohit, I have more stuff to add. Let me see if I can get the mods to re-open that thread or I shall post my recent findings here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
As for the McLaren story I will never open my mouth as I felt earlier and feel now that the opinion was made and no one was bothered to look at the other side, this is what makes me dislike the virtual world where anonymity is taken for granted and an all out on someone is considered fair.
I am extremely sorry. But to begin with, no one believed me. And I was tagged a cheat for having run away without paying you huge sums of money. Though the truth was quite the opposite as I proved later on with a copy of my PM. Though after more people suffering like I did people have finally started to see the light.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
so I think the best and honest thing to do is instead of trying to show dignified silence you should own up that things did go haywire for a lot many reasons and try and take it forward. A car or any x amount of money isnt worth losing friendship for. And as far as I could read between the lines the other thread by McLaren I feel he felt more worse about you deserting him then actually the amount of money lost.
You hit the nail on the head. More than the money lost, I was more hurt that someone I once considered as one of my closest friend did this to me. Just to name a few facts:

1. Made promises of delivering me a very quick car that would run on pump gas. He went wrong with calculations to an extent that I had to run 100+ Oct fuel for daily drive, car had to run double head gaskets, with the pistons 2mm+ above deck height. This was the primary mistake, one which Keshav hasn't ever accepted till date or tried to rectify even after the car sufferred 3 engine rebuilds at Sag Racing itself.

2. To make matters worse, I was requested by Keshav himself to go to Scan for cam fitting and subsequently requested Scan to do a rebuild for me as Sag Racing was too occupied with other projects. Later on I was criticized by the man in question that my car had visited other tuners without his notice and hence my reliability sacrificed while the truth is far from it.

3. What really hurt me was that, instead of rectifying what was wrong the minute my engine started spewing white smoke I was advised to drive the car as is till the engine breaks down completely (meaning more money to be spent to get it back up running). Everytime I gave my feedback I was ridiculed saying "You have no clue" and at the end of it all I was right to begin with. If only some ego's had been put aside to listen to my plea's.

4. Final nail in the coffin was the false allegations made that I had run away without paying huge sums of money. That coming from someone you treated as a part of your family is downright unacceptable.

Had he accepted his fault, rectified it and had asked me for more money I would have gladly paid up. But I was charged huge sums of money for 3 of my rebuilds all which lasted for 1000-2000 kms each. Everytime the car broke down for the same reason as the previous time. At the end of it, the entire onus was put on my driving and that my car had visited many tuners. All I ever wanted was to have him accept his mistake like Arush has or Keshav has in this case with Amit's car. But like I said, not all are as lucky as Amit.

Note to mods: I have just highlighted some of points that Amit has faced too and narrated similar issues I faced too. Also since TBHP stands for the truth, I have also stated some true facts regarding the behaviour of the people involved. Tomorrow I would not want to see anyone being harmed. I request the mods to leave the facts so that people are aware of whats really going on behind the scenes.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 11th May 2009 at 22:04.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:28   #260
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After close to 20 pages, I feel that this thread has not served its purpose. This thread was posted by Iceman with good intent to bring out inadequacies of tuning in India so that we can progress and evolve. This was not supposed to be a deterrent to newbies to tune but more of a quick learning curve.

But unfortunately, only a few stories have come to light. It turned out to be tuner bashing, with only a few coming forth with the actual facts. I dont see any point in continuing this unless we have equal participation from all parts of the country.

Let this be buried amongs other threads which have lost it purpose. Amen.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:38   #261
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Mohit, Like someone says "it a sad day for tuning in India"

Unfortunately the tendency is to bash/gloat on other people than to admit or come forth.
BUT, we cannot force anyone so there we go.

Cheers
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:45   #262
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After going through all the above posts, i'd like to put down a brief version of my story. As most of you guys know, I drive an Opel Corsa and it's not that easy to tune one. After a lot of trial and errror with a lot of tuners, I went to Fahad Kutty of Game Over tuning. He was quite curious to work on my car and asked for a couple of months to try things out. The dangers were laid out to me right at the start. He started experimenting with the 1.4 engine and finally managed to do what he had set out to do. The car ran fabulously for a couple of months and then we blew the engine.
Now listen to this. He picks up the car from my place, takes it to his garage and replaces the mill with a 1.6 one free of cost! That's cause he had promised me right in the beginning that he was experimenting with the car as he had never tuned one before. And if anything would go wrong, he would make up for it. Today, after all these years, I have just one thing for that man. Respect.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:54   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adman77 View Post
Now listen to this. He picks up the car from my place, takes it to his garage and replaces the mill with a 1.6 one free of cost! That's cause he had promised me right in the beginning that he was experimenting with the car as he had never tuned one before. And if anything would go wrong, he would make up for it. Today, after all these years, I have just one thing for that man. Respect.
That is too good. He seems to be a honest gentleman!!
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:54   #264
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That is excellent, Man that way I would have 3 spare engines now

Good on him, any details as to what he did, why the engine gave up?
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:58   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
Good on him, any details as to what he did, why the engine gave up?
Lets just say my engine got really bored.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 13th May 2009 at 12:20.
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Old 13th May 2009, 12:23   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
That is too good. He seems to be a honest gentleman!!
very rarely have I come across such instances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
That is excellent, Man that way I would have 3 spare engines now
And I would got 4 .


I think this scene is going to change only when more customers come out openly and discuss how their builds went wrong for various reasons. Its only when this happens that tuners will be left with no choice but to get more professional or up their ante to avoid negative publicity. Until then nothing is going to change, people are going to fall prey to this scene.

Besides, how many tuners actually come out with the truth about their own builds? I have seen them proclaim extreme reliability while the truth is they have blown heads and what not. I often see people not posting serious issues like blown headgaskets, overheating engines, extremely low compression etc and yet claim their car had no reliability issues at all. Or maybe their definition of reliability is a lot different to mine .

Last edited by Rehaan : 15th May 2009 at 01:45. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT button to add to an existing post within 20 minutes instead of posting another consecutive post.
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Old 13th May 2009, 12:53   #267
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Adman77, It was interesting to hear about a tuner who was honest with a busted job. that's a rarity.
Most garages feel that their Job is perfect thus any failures are owner related.

Somebody once pointed out that the expensive Bills for tuning are because of after sale support. So charge more so that it takes care of the blown pipes and else later :-)
Please realize that this is a general statement
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Old 13th May 2009, 12:59   #268
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The best line that i have collected from many a tuner when asked about their own car's performance is-

"The car is on its next Evolution in power development"

Frankly it means we blew the engine and now we're getting better parts for it.

Ask them a few weeks/months later and you'll get the same reply.lol.
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Old 13th May 2009, 13:33   #269
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Adman77: Thats really amazing to hear that your tuner did that! The approach of your tuner is pretty much spot on. The enthusiasm to try a new engine, laying out the risks upfront, and replacing that engine brings total respect for this. I guess the 1.4L was overbored and under extreme stress. You really are lucky and should stick to someone like this.
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Old 13th May 2009, 13:51   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnda View Post
lets kill this horse instead!
ROFLCOPTER!!

Funniest thing i have heard all morning!
I would have to love to join you in killing the horse but I think the PETA guys will lynch me instead!

(looks around)

aah, What the heck!

Last edited by pradster : 13th May 2009 at 13:52. Reason: fixed my silly typos!
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