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Old 21st April 2009, 14:37   #31
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If i dont get what i asked for after agreeing upon what i want, with the tuner's/garage's price; then its my right to shout foul from the rooftops.

If the tuner/garage thinks otherwise undo the bad or prove the blame is incorrect.

Last edited by Spitfire : 21st April 2009 at 14:38.
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Old 21st April 2009, 14:37   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
1. You go to a shop, and ask for a replica of a painting.

2. You go to an artist, and ask for a painting of a "beautiful lady".

Got the difference?

When we buy a car, we are essentially doing (1).

In case of (2), so many variables are involved. Like the concept of "beautiful". And, err.. mmm.. <self censored>.

And assuming that the tuner has got exactly what the customer intended when the customer said "beautiful lady", there still are several slips / holes through which both parties can claim problems.
There is another difference. In most cases, artists create and present their work themselves before it is bought. Or are paid AFTER the work.

You cannot use the same anology with Tuners, where most of the money is spent upfront. Hence there is a responsibility on the part of the tuner to deliver what is expected because the customer has shown his intent by paying upfront. If I had paid upfront, I would expect delivery to be on agreed lines - if this is not the case, shouting from the rooftops is the mildest retribution that can be expected.

This is not the case with a regular dealership, where you can dispute the bill after the work has been done. You havent paid for anything yet.

Again, the artist creates his own intellectual property - how many 'Tuners' can claim to be doing the same? Navin mentioned that 'Google is dangerous' - I would second this, but in a manner that is very different from the point he was trying to make.

Lets not kid ourselves - how many of our 'Tuners' are true artists? Everyone makes mistakes, but a true artist would never accept money for a botched up job because he does his work 'Dil se'.

Last edited by Steeroid : 21st April 2009 at 14:50.
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Old 21st April 2009, 14:40   #33
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I kind of disagree with the sentiment that Google is dangerous. It is as dangerous as a car mag or a tuning mag. In the end, it is the responsibility of the workshop to tell the customer what is possible and what isn't within a certain budget in our country. If you over promise and under deliver, it isn't the fault of Google. It is your own.
Point to ponder what if the work has not been done in the country before? It is like saying the technique Micheal Phelps uses, how the Doctor Rides etc. are the best then we would not have any others aspiring to get there. Yes, agree that it is true a tuner needs to know what are the adverse issues that could (please read carefully I said could and not can as that depends on experience), PS: completely agree with Navin knowledge unless backed by experience is = Iceman's old signature "half baked knowledge is dangerous".

However it does not mean that people will stop pushing the limits, it just means push it slow and steady till you know you can control it well enough. Well some classic statements I have heard over the years: "I want the fastest car in the country", "I want the fastest car in this category" and other smart comments like "I would like this, this and this put in my car can it be done and will it work". It depends on your approach and what you ask for that eventually gets you there. So it basically means be clear on what you need and not say this person has done it in the US/UK I can do it here. Or how about a simple example like using 5-30 oils in India where the temperature ranges ask for at least a 5-40.

As for the promise part I completely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
As for the customer, I'd like to repeat what Zakko told me the other day. Whatever research you do online, do not spend one paisa or agree to a job until you talk to others who have gone through what you are about to.
Well said and is a good point to practice.
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Old 21st April 2009, 14:41   #34
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Should we have a section within the T-BHP REVIEWS category for reviews about tuners ? Maybe that could be a one stop thread for reviews posted on tuners

we can have sub categories as required for body work, engine work, and other forms of work that ppl generally go to tuners for
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:09   #35
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I would like to add that thankfully this thread has not turned into a mudslinging competition as I had originally dreaded but into a proper well mannered discussion that can help guide members here. Please have the posts flowing in with your point of view. By the way where is the starter motor (iceman91).
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:09   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
I think everybody has got it wrong here by mentioning the word TUNING, TUNER etc...

Simple routine maintenance jobs done by certain Bhpians and the workshops they represent has also ran into very weird circumstances. There wasn't any BIG expectations involved in those cases. The customers were cheated, abused, ignored and even shown the door in the most rude manners possible. Are we supposed to be quite in these issues too? And names of the culprits never be mentioned here? A mere finger pointing would be considered as Personal attacks?

Sorry, if we can talk truth about different car manufacturers, dealers, managers, advisors etc... then, it should be applicable to all. Any kind of discrimination should not be allowed just because the wrong doer is a Bhpian.
My view! What say?


Totally agree with your POV, could not have worded it better.




Cheers

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 21st April 2009 at 15:11.
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:19   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
I would like to add that thankfully this thread has not turned into a mudslinging competition as I had originally dreaded but into a proper well mannered discussion that can help guide members here. Please have the posts flowing in with your point of view. By the way where is the starter motor (iceman91).
he must be disappointed , not enough drama going on here.
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:41   #38
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A suggestion to GTO & his team of moderators :

Put up a section for feedback on tuners' in the tuner's directory. Many people may be reffering to the directory for getting work done.

It may be prudent to have realtime feedback from customer's experience with a particular tuner.




Thanks
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:46   #39
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Default Wow!!

Excellent response. I am glad to see the varied answers and opinions.
Well my few points looking at the responses:
1. Going to a dealer and going to a tuner is different agrred but, When we go to a tuner he does;
  • Charge a premium on labour
  • has a profit margin on the "imported" performance parts used
  • most cases no warranty

Similarities with a dealer:
  • No proof parts are changed
  • No proof if work is done as requested
  • buck is passed onto the car's condition or owner

Now the above points are in most cases not ALL.

Tadu, yes as requested you wanted my story to make this thread more "serious" for your perception. Here goes;

I bought my car back and sourced a new engine for it, the G15. for various reasons. This was my decision.When I recieved it we noticed that the pistons were below deck height, the engine had beeen in a turbo car. Given to SAG racing (Vasu & Psycho) to do a complete rebuild of the car, included everything from suspension,gear box, other key parts as lower arm, ball joint etc.etc.
I queried Keshav about the engine compression as I had my doubts he assured me that no, it would be perfect. I did not question him as most know once he has his mind set on it he wont accept any other ideas suggestions.The engine was sent for work to the lathe, and all necessary parts replaced. I bought as many SGP as I could and MGP for the rest. no spurious parts(siddhartha listening ? ). This was verified by me and I have all the bills.NO doubt here. The engine was installed and Dissapointment started, it was low on compression, the car on test drive was as slow as a stock zen. I parked the car and called Keshav, no answer. I was upset and vented my feelings to him and others. He had nothing to say and just said that yes it is not fast. No apologies no explanations none of it. Then they started work on the engine which was in my car and said that they would completely rebuild that for me to its old glory a 1.75 litre FAAAAST baleno which I previously owned. yes time delay again. No car for pondicherry meet. Did not go.
A week later this is done and installed, hence the write up then and pics of the engine. drove the car engine is tight, very very tight. Then they notice oil leak in the head I ask why has it not been opened nad checked, the reply last time we built it it was fine. I am like you guys built it 3 years ago then the car was running on god knows what by the new owner kerosene,gas,diesel who knows??? why did I ask you to completey rebuild the damn car, no answer for it. redo the entire head now send to lathe etc.etc. car comes out. Still tight.They said drive for 3000km and it would be ok. I did not want to risk it hence no for Goa too. Drove it for 2000km and had lots of issues with it. Car kept going off and would need to be cranked a few times, also it would back fire at times. Was told because engine is tight (yeah right) to add to this everytime car switched off water would spew out from overflow tank of the radiator. They had doubts on head gasket, I said change it what else 2000rs for an SGP one. Problem still exists then they doubt the radiator itself get it cleaned etc.etc. still same problem. Asked me to replace it cost 5000rs. This is when I stepped in changed the radiator cap and guess what Problem solved!!!!!! then the startiing issue and Backfire problem took car to Solar, fixed it in few hours. Wires in some sensors were wrongly connected. SAG insists they did not do it. I dint pursue it as problem was solved. Next suspension not right makes all noises and is not balanced.Went to another garage the guy looks at the install and laughs his head off. Installed ncorrectly. Got it fixed, still not happy and could not redo it so replaced it.
Finally car was ok, not great not fast as it used to be but faster than a stock baleno. Was upset had had enough so exchanged it with a friend for his stock engine. I basically gave the engine and gearbox away. Only the clutch was paid for by him. BAck to stock engine VERY VERY VERY VERY happy.
Recently had issues with starting for which they got an electrician from a MASS and found the ECM wires all out of place he spent 6 hours redid the entire ECM wiring and NO issues so far.
The main reason to go to SAG and get the work done as I was told by Keshav that I would not be charged above x amount as I was broke to begin with and also I would not be asked for money. Yes the cost went throught the roof about 6-7 times the quote. some of it I understand as SGP parts were used and they are expensive. Again assured payment is not an issue can be done at my convenience. Day after car back to stock form was called every hour to go and make payment. went there cleared the entire bill in one shot no checks, but cash. Keshav no where in the picture has dissapeared. Till date I have not gotten an explanation of charges which were questioned by me. Still was avoided by Keshav. Then was explained that he was floored with office and family and health issues. I am not to going to divulge more into that as I think that is personal.
This has happened in june-october 2008. 5 months. Keshav is also a goood friend of mine and this was also affected, finally we came to a solution/compromise and a compensation was arrived at to my satisfaction. As of today I drive my car stock except for suspension, brakes and an air filter. I do have headers installed a few days ago but not happy so will be removed shortly.

I am in good terms with Vasu and Keshav today. Go to he garage regularly to meet them or get minor work done like oil change,plugs etc.etc. But Will I modify my car at the garage again or no is something I have to think about,till date I have refrained from doing so.

Disclaimer:
I have spoken to Keshav and he is aware of me posting this. he knows his status on tbhp might be affected but he has stood up and accepted the facts. Respect him for that. (Arush too for that matter)

Keshav if you feel anything I have said is wrong please feeel free to correct me.

P.s. Siddhartha I dont own Jigani Industrial estate so I have to work like normal people plus typing this long one is pretty time consuming LOL

Last edited by iceman91 : 21st April 2009 at 15:55.
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:03   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
Disclaimer:
I have spoken to Keshav and he is aware of me posting this. he knows his status on tbhp might be affected but he has stood up and accepted the facts. Respect him for that. (Arush too for that matter)

Keshav if you feel anything I have said is wrong please feeel free to correct me.
Hey Amit,

Have no issues posting the facts here and am glad we handled the scene offline instead of online. No use washing linen in public. Also apologize again for not being there when the car was done due to my health reasons last year was a complete nightmare but that does not justify the problems you went through.
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:09   #41
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So Vikram, do you have anything to say about MY Engine being Blown again????
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:14   #42
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Amit / Keshav,

Kudos to both of you for putting this up so professionally. I raise my glass of fresh lime water (no soda please) to you.
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:14   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
So Vikram, do you have anything to say about MY Engine being Blown again????
Amit, your engine blew because of excess maaza & sambar inside it.

V1p3r, what do you have to say about the engine gifted to you by Iceman91?

@hrag - Sweet or salt?

Last edited by vikram_d : 21st April 2009 at 16:17.
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:18   #44
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Thank you HRAG, the idea is to get people to post the TRUTH afer all that is what Teambhp stands for. It is not for hearsay and mudslinging. This thread is for people to narrate or openly talk about their bad experiences with a tuner that they themselves have faced, not their brother friend uncle etc etc.
It is to hear BOTH sides of the experience as most tuners are also members here unlike dealerships.
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Old 21st April 2009, 16:22   #45
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Well, I know for a fact that the head / partner of a TASC is a member here. Makes me think - should we have disclosure (?) norms for all those associated with the auto industry in some way or the other?

Last edited by hrag : 21st April 2009 at 16:23.
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