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Old 21st April 2009, 17:33   #61
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I am amused by the stand taken by some when they dont know the whole issue. I see that Amit has put across his case entirely, maturely and matter of factly! And the fact that Psycho has accepted it is a fact that it was a mistake! Its a thing of past for them

But what I cannot understand is that people supporting when there is no need for it. Fitting an exhaust or servicing is NOT equivalent to the what Iceman has undertaken. Its serious tuning and what is considered as street race level or the base competition level, how can you even compare servicing to that.

This is not a case of mismatched expectations! After a G15 swap car is slower than a Zen? What was the expectation then? The rest of the issues like mismatched wiring, wrong suspension install and a job half done is just NOT acceptable.

Maybe its time someone wrote another version of "What it takes to own a modded ride?".
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:42   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiablo View Post
This is not a case of mismatched expectations! After a G15 swap car is slower than a Zen? What was the expectation then? The rest of the issues like mismatched wiring, wrong suspension install and a job half done is just NOT acceptable.
This problem was due to a communication gap and not a mismatch of expectations. The problem with the G15 was that it was running lowered compression as it was on a turbo setup. A lowered compression G15 will definitely be slower. For the rest I guess Psycho has already answered your questions.

A lot of people are taking this thread way too seriously. What say Amit?

Disclaimer: I am not taking any sides here. I am friends equally both with Iceman91 & Psycho and we all hang out together every weekend.

Last edited by vikram_d : 21st April 2009 at 17:46.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:42   #63
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Originally Posted by crazydiablo View Post
Its serious tuning and what is considered as street race level or the base competition level, how can you even compare servicing to that.
The point is "whether it is a tuning outfit or a dealer / service centre, why are things hushed up when the outfit is run by a member of this forum?"

I don't think anybody is comparing engine oil change to increasing compression ratio or preparing a car for the SpeedRun. Both of these can, however, be screwed up by the outfit in question.

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
A lot of people are taking this thread way too seriously. What say Amit?
You want someone to say "my tuner put Maaza in my radiator"?

Last edited by hrag : 21st April 2009 at 17:45.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:45   #64
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My experience

Case 1 - Fiat Palio 1.6 - Tuner - Keshav

I didnt have much exppectations. Just wanted something fast as this was going to be my first modded car. Spent 40k for headers, filters, port & polish, new clutch, new battery. Was very happy with it for the 30k kms i drove. Met my expectations to the T. No issues at all.

Case 2 - Honda City 1.5 - Tuner "Scan & Sean"

Wanted the manual gearbox changed to an automatic one. Was quoted 50k for it which was paid up in advance. Car took 2 months to get over with. Finally after it was over paid 15k installation charges.

Drove the car for 3000 kms and the gearbox started acting up. It would get stuck and not shift. Car was sent to bangalore two time to get this fixed. But in the meanwhile the tuner duo had split. So I had absolutely no means of contacting anyone of them. Finally after 6 months of the car lying around decided to junk the auto and go back to manual.

Totally not happy with the swap. Burnt my fingers major time. This is when I learnt what had to be done when dealing with a tuner.

Case 3 - Lancer Mivec - Tuner Kumar

I had a small issue with electricals. Car wouldnt start or idle properly. Was missing and returning bad FE figures. Left it at Kumar's garage. Was promised I could have the car back in a week. Got it back in 4 days. Paid 7500 for it.

Was very happy with the way the whole issue was sorted out.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:52   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
You want someone to say "my tuner put Maaza in my radiator"?
Too bad I can't post my experience here.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:59   #66
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Wow, just have to say, i have never had any bad experience, but that is because i havnt started modding, and hope i dont end up having to write a big post in this thread, also going off topic i would like to say that this is the fastest increasing thread, it was started today, and already there are 5 pages, i am feeling sorry that this is not a good thing, as the bigger it gets it just means more and more people were dissapointed.
It is truly a sad day for tuners in india.
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:10   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhayshanu View Post
It is truly a sad day for tuners in india.
I think it is one of the best days instead as there will be so much more to learn from and be prepared instead of just hoping you get it right the first time. Not just for the tuners but for the people who would love to tune their cars.

PS: if every thing were perfect in the real world wouldn't we all be driving perfect cars in every sense from the factory itself? (And hopefully never complaining)
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:14   #68
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Excellent thread!! I am happy that the bad experiences are coming out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
A lot of people are taking this thread way too seriously. What say Amit?
I think this is a thread that has to be taken very seriously. It would be better if people do not take sides, clutter it or make it another mudslinging thread, we have so many here. I am happy that Amit and Psycho have taken it in the right spirit.

This thread is very important because a newbie may identify a tuner by doing research on this forum. A few good experiences about a tuner (so many out there) would give him the confidence to trust his hard earned money and beloved vehicle with the workshop. It is our responsibility to show both sides of the coin.

My car has seen only authorized service centres for repairs. I do not want to trust my car with any workshop, because of reasons which Steeroid has described beautifully.

I do not want indian tuning scene to improve at the cost of my car. I think it is better to stick to the usual performance filters and free flow exhaust.

I know we are paying a premium to authorized service centers, but do we have any choice?

Last edited by PatienceWins : 21st April 2009 at 18:16.
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:43   #69
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I queried Keshav about the engine compression as I had my doubts he assured me that no, it would be perfect. I did not question him as most know once he has his mind set on it he wont accept any other ideas suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
This problem was due to a communication gap and not a mismatch of expectations. The problem with the G15 was that it was running lowered compression as it was on a turbo setup. A lowered compression G15 will definitely be slower. For the rest I guess Psycho has already answered your questions.
I think these two statements are a little contradictory? As far as I have talked with Amit, he is hardly a fan of FI but hardcore NA guy. As a tuner Psycho should have advised against this setup for a NA build. I guess that this is the same engine that is in your car and you are happy with is mere FACT that this engine was meant to be turboed.

Actually I do agree that most issue happen due to miscommunication. But reading this experience I am not convinced it was mere miscommunication. I dont want to discuss just one instance, let more experiences pour in.
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Old 21st April 2009, 19:07   #70
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There aaas no miscommunication whatsoever. Only thing I can say was keshav made a wrong call with the g15 and then there was no communication between tuner and mechanic
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Old 21st April 2009, 19:09   #71
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Closest i came with mods on my car was with workshop in whitefield some 4 years back (now frk), when i approached them for Free flow exhaust from Automech (Apparently they were recommended by the POC of Automech in BLR), i was lead to a custom job in a days time. Which i agreed due to cost factor (4 grand which others commented is looting), and since the fact that i needed only a cheap end can. Job was reasonably ok, but the alignment of pipe was off causing major banging. The end can was not rust treated but it sounded sweet, leaks were fixed and an easy bolt on clamp was fitted for fitting and removal.

After this i went to SAG, welder guy sorted the sound issue to an extent by bending the pipe to an extent. Then during cleaning head mech removed the thick sponge top layer from the air filter, claiming it was a hindrance to flaaw. Which kinda convinced me that his knowledge is very limited to other makes. Second time i went for a compression check (after dealer fiasco) and couldnt do it since they didnt have the required adapter for iKON. This convinced me, that to deal with modern makes one needs to have specialized tools and gadgets.

From then on, it's DIY if i know how to do it. Otherwise i take it to the dealer but make myself very clear when i hand over the keys. Touch wood it has worked till date.

I dont have the energy or money to fiddle around with my primary vehicle, maybe will do all this once i have enough moolah to retire. Till then let it itch.
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Old 21st April 2009, 19:32   #72
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Hope Amit got the stuff clear and continuing hitting the nail over and over again is just a waste of time the problems have been accepted and compromise reached and moved on. The core issue on his build was that I was not there when required as I was in Hospital and had issues in office at the same time which led to lack of communication (not miscommunication) between Amit, me and the garage and the list of problems.

The core idea of this thread is more on the lines of identifying if there are issues that are typically swept under the mat and what people need to be aware of. I guess it would be a lot more mature if we all just talked of experiences instead of going around passing generic comments as there could be a million more factors that could affect the outcome of any project. In doing so we may be able to help people making wiser choices on what to do and where to do instead of it being a people bashing thread.
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Old 21st April 2009, 21:53   #73
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Core issues i see are people and their competence and dedication to their job and access to proper tools for a non authorized garage.

Unless you have competent, professionally educated and trained people handling/monitoring the work it will not succeed.

Tools especially if one doesnt have access to high tech gadgets, working on ECU cars will be so so. Its one thing to machine the parts, but when it comes to tuning bit you need to have proper tools to diagnose if you have to succeed proper. Even carbed cars require proper gauges if you need to fine tune it.

On the other hand i would like to share good experience i had in Bangalore. This is when i had Esteem, there is one garage next to Solar automobiles in Ulsoor. Kanniah garage, its a shed, run by a person by name Stephen. He is nothing but a Maruti trained mech. He used to work on my esteem and the way he works itself is worth a watch. Small things like the way he lets the engine cool down before setting tappet, lets the last bit of oil drip from the sump, the way he cleans his tools before touching a screw or bolt.

He will tell you up front the pros and cons and maybe even force you to replace a part, where as he knows he can fix it and run for some more time. He will tell you that he charges less since he gets a commission from parts supplier.

Unfortunately he is now busy with his water service station and stuff, that he spends very lil time there. But he used to tune my esteem engine and guaranties power+mileage and i can vouch that he delivers what he promise. Dont expect him to do miracles with ECU cars coz he doesnt have any high tech gadget, but if you want on the fly mechanical job he is really good. ie if you catch him and he agrees to work on your car.

@iceman: i personally dont think you can expect miracle posts here!
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Old 21st April 2009, 22:04   #74
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oh Jaggu I too admire stephens work. He is a genuine honest down to earth mechanic. Yes they do exist guys
I go to him for my service and he is known to our house cars for 6 plus years.
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Old 21st April 2009, 22:11   #75
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lol i didnt know that you also knew him, so you might be aware that he also has built some sweet esteem engines in the past
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