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Old 18th May 2009, 17:52   #1
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Default Rally mod advice for Esteem

Team,

I have bought an used Esteem (2006, Vxi) recently and plan to carry out some mods. Here is a background of the purpose of the mods. I had always wanted to participate in rallies at an amateur level, especially, the ones that are carried out in and around WB and the neighbouring states. However, it is my dream to participate in the Raid atleast once. I should mention here that I am a novice when it comes to rally mods, and will take these mods slow, and complete over a period of 6 months.

I am looking to mod the car, so that it becomes a capable rally car, but at the same time, remain reliable and will also act as my daily ride. Here are some points on which I would request some advice.

Tyres
The present tyres will last at the most, another 3k kms. I will need to change them at the earliest.
  • Is it necessary to get tyres with tougher side walls for rallying?
  • Are there any rally tyre specifications that differ from regular use tyres? Suggestion on brand would help.
  • It is advisable to use steel rims or should I have alloys? The car currently has steel rims.
  • Should I use wider tyres? The current ones are 175.
Suspension
The suspension needs to be toughened I believe.
  • Should I go for Koni (yellow ones) or Pedders?
  • Is the stock GC sufficient or should I enhance them?
FFE
  • I am looking for good low and mid range power enhancement, as opposed to higher top speed. Should I use 4x2x1 or 4x1 setup?
  • I do not need a very loud FFE. Beyond 3000 rpm, the FFE should roar. Can the FFE be customized based on my requirements?
  • What are the suggested brands?
CAI
  • What will be a good CAI kit to install?
  • What are the brands that sell CAI kits? Pros and cons on the same would be helpful.
  • What should be the type of filter used?
Clutch
  • The present clutch needs to be worked upon. Is it necessary to install racing clutch or should I go ahead with OEM clutch plates, etc.
Brakes
  • The brakes need to be reinforced. Please suggest suitable brands for brake pads
  • Is there anything else that I need to take care of, other than having better brake pads, as far as braking is concerned?
Porting and Polishing
  • Is there anything specific that I need to take care of, for porting and polishing. I do not have any idea about this.
The above list are the mods that I have thought about. I will also install strut braces. Other than these, please add if I have missed anything. Looking forward to your suggestions.
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:05   #2
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Congrats Dude! Before you go for any modification I would advice you to go thru the MAI spec for rally. I think I have the document I will find it out and email it to you.

For rally 1 st and most important is installing a sump gaurd and a petrol tank gaurd, then roll cage, then straightening of lower arm etc. I would say go for Koni, thats absolutely my choice not to influence anyone. Secondly when we talk about rally spec and CAI ,the rally people prefer to play in teh mid range, the ideal guy for this would be Mr. Leelakrishnan. I also plant to soup up my Esteem. Lets do it together. What Say? In calcutta I have contacted couple of guys who are regulars in rally circuit and they have promised to guide me.
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:23   #3
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Congratulations. I must say it was a very very quick purchase decision. While you plan for the more serious mods, in you leisure time do think about a couple of nice paint schemes

Quote:
Originally Posted by me_sid View Post
I also plant to soup up my Esteem. Lets do it together.
Sigh .. so you're not selling it to me :(
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:25   #4
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Thats great Sid. We'll do it together. I'm game. I was just now going through the Raid mod specs and that does not mandate a rollcage (Adventure Trial, of course). Do the local ones (Monsoon, Kaviguru, Kalinga rally) need it? I am actually against having a rollcage.

I missed out on the sump guard and the fuel tank guard.
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Congratulations. I must say it was a very very quick purchase decision. While you plan for the more serious mods, in you leisure time do think about a couple of nice paint schemes


Sigh .. so you're not selling it to me :(
Lolz shuvc I am seriously thinking man, i might even think of selling Black velvet and get a MPFI 2006 -07 esteem!
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Old 18th May 2009, 19:42   #6
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congratulations saurabh da, so finally you managed to get the esteem.

did you go through the MAI docs i had sent you?

firstly i would suggest you get the specific details and regulations regarding modding from the bengal motorsports association. that way you will know how much you can and cannot mod. let me know when you are planning to get things started, will help you and sid da as much as i can (thats if i'm able to).

Sid da, bah ki bapar modding!!!!!!!!!

Baleno tar kichu koro

Last edited by NOS Power : 18th May 2009 at 19:44.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:28   #7
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By "rally" do you mean you intend to participate in on or more round of the INRC ? If yes, then you need to go through the FMSCI specs and decide what mods are "allowed" depending on the "class" you plan to participate in .

The details of what is allowed and what is not is given here .:: The Federation of Motor Sports Clubs of India ::.

About using a rally car as a daily driver please do note that :
- it will have only two seats !
- it will have a hard suspension(unless you change to stock when not rallying)
- it will have no air-con (again you can fit it when not competing, but its a hassle to put it back and remove and also fill the gas in it!)
- it will not have bonnet/boot locks as it needs to be removed and fasteners installed which can be opened from outside the car
- it will be loud and might attract cops and associated fines/fees
- the rally seats and roll cage make entry and exit a little more "difficult" - depending on how thin/fat/flexible you are!

Also do take a look on Rally India - Welcome to the Home of Indian Rallying | Home | Rally India in case you are really serious into getting into rallying! there's a lot of rally drivers,navigators,organizers and couch rallyists in there who can help you

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 18th May 2009 at 22:31.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:47   #8
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You my friend, are living my dream!! ANyways, one word of Advice, DO NOT RALLY WITHOUT A ROLL CAGE!!! No matter how against a roll cage you are, it is life saving.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:53   #9
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You can have a chat with Amittrajit Ghosh (RK Performance) and tell him about your intentions. He might be able to guide you. Please PM me if you need his number.
Regarding roll cage, as Cyrus has mentioned, it is a must whether you like it or not.
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Old 18th May 2009, 23:10   #10
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Aah... It's always been my dream to make rallying my career but that's another story for another time.

Coming to your queries, here's what I know and have gathered from my rally friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurabh M View Post

Tyres
  • Is it necessary to get tyres with tougher side walls for rallying?
Yes. Rally tires are hard compound tires with tough sidewalls to take maximum abuse.
  • Are there any rally tyre specifications that differ from regular use tyres? Suggestion on brand would help.
You can approach MRF or JK as most of India's rally car's run on these 2 brands. I'm not sure if you can source them directly from the manufacturers though.
  • It is advisable to use steel rims or should I have alloys? The car currently has steel rims.
I'm yet to see a rally car doing a course with alloys. It's always steel rims. I guess it's to do with the fact that alloy wheels break on hard impact but steel rims only bend.
  • Should I use wider tyres? The current ones are 175.
The hard compound tires i've used on the race track are also used for rally's. They are 185 profile tube type tires.

Suspension
The suspension needs to be toughened I believe.
  • Should I go for Koni (yellow ones) or Pedders?
Most of the rally car's sport Koni's and the rally drivers swear by them. The yellow's would be your best bet.
  • Is the stock GC sufficient or should I enhance them?
I'm not sure if the GC is altered.

FFE
  • I am looking for good low and mid range power enhancement, as opposed to higher top speed. Should I use 4x2x1 or 4x1 setup?
AFAIK, rally car's use 4x1 setup for mid range power.
  • I do not need a very loud FFE. Beyond 3000 rpm, the FFE should roar. Can the FFE be customized based on my requirements?
Yes. FFE or the end can can be customised as per requirement. Depends on the amount of restriction (glass wool) in the muffler. Lower the restriction, more the noise.
  • What are the suggested brands?
Get a custom made muffler. A branded one will cost you more and may not suit your requirements of sound levels.

CAI
  • What will be a good CAI kit to install?
  • What are the brands that sell CAI kits? Pros and cons on the same would be helpful.
  • What should be the type of filter used?
Clutch
  • The present clutch needs to be worked upon. Is it necessary to install racing clutch or should I go ahead with OEM clutch plates, etc.
You'd definitely need a racing clutch to handle the high degree of abuse in a rally scenario.

Brakes
  • The brakes need to be reinforced. Please suggest suitable brands for brake pads
EBC brake pads. Search the forum for brake upgades.
  • Is there anything else that I need to take care of, other than having better brake pads, as far as braking is concerned?
#1 - Roll cage.

Make the car as light as possible. Remove air con, dashboard, get a fire extinguisher, strut braces, etc.

Porting and Polishing
  • Is there anything specific that I need to take care of, for porting and polishing. I do not have any idea about this.
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Old 19th May 2009, 00:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naditya
Rally tires are hard compound tires with tough sidewalls to take maximum abuse.
Tough sidewall,yes. Hard compound? Debatable!
While there is no choice on the compound since the tyres are provided by the tyre company, tyre compound for a rally is a tight rope balancing act between being soft enough for traction, but hard enough to complete the required stages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naditya
You can approach MRF or JK as most of India's rally car's run on these 2 brands. I'm not sure if you can source them directly from the manufacturers though.
Usually, given free to registered competitors with some terms and conditions by the sponsoring tyre company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naditya
I'm yet to see a rally car doing a course with alloys. It's always steel rims. I guess it's to do with the fact that alloy wheels break on hard impact but steel rims only bend.
Never heard of rally alloy rims, Aditya? Eg. Compomotive. I think Speedsport on the forum uses them on his zen. These are specially made for rallying.
A little heavier than racing rims,but cast really well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naditya
hard compound tires i've used on the race track are also used for rally's. They are 185 profile tube type tires.
Maybe the ones you used got hard over time. But, circuit racing tyres are essentially soft compound. And I doubt the JK ultima NXT tarmac tyres provide grip in gravel/slush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naditya
It's always been my dream to make rallying my career but that's another story for another time.
Oh congratulations! When and where did you do a rally round? We'd love to hear about your rallying experience.
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Old 19th May 2009, 10:58   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
You can have a chat with Amittrajit Ghosh (RK Performance) and tell him about your intentions.
Absolutely. And a thorough gentleman at that. RK Performance is the only place to visit in Calcutta for your requirements. Look up his contact information in our Tuner Database

You might also want to take a look at these threads:

1

2 (Report - Raid-De-Himalaya 2006. Now with pictures)

3 (Sprucing up Gypsy King MPFI and making it more reliable (for the RAID etc))
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Old 19th May 2009, 13:12   #13
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please visit the official MAI or FMSCI sites , and also rally.co.in .
please familiarise yourself with the modifications/ preparations as per the rules and regulations laid down by the competent authorities for the 1400 cc class.
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Old 19th May 2009, 13:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
You my friend, are living my dream!! ANyways, one word of Advice, DO NOT RALLY WITHOUT A ROLL CAGE!!! No matter how against a roll cage you are, it is life saving.
Cud'nt agree any better with this post. Here's something you might wanna see. BTW check rally.co.in there's loadsa advise there on rallying.

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Old 19th May 2009, 13:35   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Usually, given free to registered competitors with some terms and conditions by the sponsoring tyre company.
Unfortunately, not any more, they used to be given free by MRF for the RSC class (carb esteems) , the other guys had to buy them. Its not clear as yet whether this year they'd be giving out tyres or not :(

The deal with tyres was simple - you give the company a cheque for the tyres' cost and get the tyres. You return the tyres post rally, you get your cheque back, if not the company deposits the cheque!
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