My OHC VTEC - Lowered, Stiffened, FFE'd and Now with ITBs!!

[ssjr0498]

You could feel your car's chassis flex .... please explain!!

Cheers
Shrey

Originally Posted by ankitahuja

Nice to hear that it's holding up well!! Do you feel the lateral movement of the chasis flex now? I'm sure the car is way better in a straight line but not too sure about the % of improvement in cornering.

Oh Sunilb is in town.. Anxious to get a TD on your car by now is he? hehe Tell him I said 'Hi'

[pranavt]

No, never did. Was only looking for additional stiffness from the chassis.

[KSM-Vtec]

Originally Posted by pranavt

Am meeting up Sunilb tomorrow, will call you

sure do that, wanted to meet him also.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by doomsday

I've seen well executed 'local' setups that have lasted a whole lot more with constant flogging. Most run the same setups for street n strip and they don't emanate a feel akin to the struts 'just being welded together' either for daily duties.

Rishi, honestly I have seen quite a few setups of the kind you are mentioning. And using a different viscosity oil is not something I would recommend and its day light robbery the price that are charged at some places given that you can go to Shivajinagar and get the same done for peanuts. It only ends up harming your struts IMO. I would anyday prefer picking up a branded setup even at a higher cost. But that is just me?

[DocG]

I totally agree with McLaren! I mean think about it this way. Everything in your car undergoes an R&D process post which there is a practical trial and error prior to production.

A short body Koni or Pedder or H&K or Tein will go through this with roughly a few hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars.

Where is the R&D in a local setup? How do they know the tolerances of your stock shocks? Just adding higher viscosity oil is not going to do this. If hydraulics were so easy then our stock suspensions should be dirt cheap from the company...

Just some food for thought.

Oh and since you got your shocks "stiffened" why didn't you get your springs cut?

Cheers

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

And using a different viscosity oil is not something I would recommend and its day light robbery the price that are charged at some places given that you can go to Shivajinagar and get the same done for peanuts. It only ends up harming your struts IMO.

Ahh, I never mentioned that did I? Its definitely not a simple case of high-viscosity oil being thrown in, which is what will happen when you get these things done at Shivajinagar or a similar place and get ripped off. If you get it done from someone who knows suspensions, he will ensure that optimum re-valving is done to arrive at the final damping rate- yes, some people do know what they are doing even though its a minority. So you just need to be careful with whom you are dealing with.

A branded setup offers better functionality and adjustability when compared to the this approach- however, even during the most spirited street driving a driver with higher than average skills will also be hard pressed to reach the absolute limits of a well-done revalving job on a sub 1.1 tonne, street-driven Indian car putting down 120 to 130whp max (rarely though); provided the other pieces of the dynamics puzzle (tyres, alignment etc.) are in place. Aftermarket turbocharged FWDs are left out of this equation since they aren't meant to be thrown headfirst into a corner anyways.

Can't comment on slightly heavier cars (like the Cedia) since I haven't come across any example with a revalving job yet but I guess they'll definitely benefit more from aftermarket coilovers when compared to something lighter like a Baleno or a City.

For someone not looking to track the car on a regular basis, an investment of 20-30k on suspension alone (at the very least, leaving out cars which have lesser aftermarket support) is simply not justified.

Originally Posted by DocG

A short body Koni or Pedder or H&K or Tein will go through this with roughly a few hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars.

Where is the R&D in a local setup? How do they know the tolerances of your stock shocks? Just adding higher viscosity oil is not going to do this. If hydraulics were so easy then our stock suspensions should be dirt cheap from the company...

Right. And the customer pays for the R&D in part when purchasing the same. And it may be justified for a 200whp+ car, as even the most basic street performance dampers from brands like H&R (not H&K) or Tein retail at around US$900, which means someone looking to buy the same in India will have to shell out close to a lakh of rupees after factoring in the duties and importer margins. All this for a car valued at three lakhs to begin with. In all probability, the guy wouldn't have spent that kind of money on the performance mods for crying out loud. Boss, this is India, not SoCal.

And just because someone tooner doesn't know what he is doing and you ended up being the guinea pig doesn't make that a generic case.

Originally Posted by DocG

Oh and since you got your shocks "stiffened" why didn't you get your springs cut?

Just to enlighten you, ghetto cut springs to slam the car won't do handling any favour, however, cutting the springs after doing some homework can easily lead to small percentage gains wrt spring rates. Getting the right preload is tough, but it can be made to work with matching dampers. As I said, its all about who does it.

Its comparatively easy to go for all bells and whistles when you are paying retail. Its clearly not the case here so its only the privileged few who can afford all this high-funda stuff.

P.S. Please don't type in bold, it equals to an offensive tone online. I understand you were trying to be sarcastic and all however, I can read and answer if you type in normal font. Thanks.

[WasavaTyres]

Was this a result of the lowering or it'd already happened during transition ??

[pranavt]

Happened a while ago. Retarded Mumbai bikers. The first photo was taken about 6-7 months ago when I bought the car.

[nitrous]

Someone who paid for eibach springs could probably also afford branded dampers.
Most probably, aftermaket dampers are not available for the city. And hence pranavt was forced to get the only other feasible option which is "stiffening".
@pranavt: How much did you pay for the "stiffening"?
@DocG: I've been reading a lot of you posts and a lot of them in different sections show that you're a diplomat's son and you seem to ridicule people with lower budgets using cheaper techniques.
It would be nice if you understand everyone is not well off and understand the point of view of the modder.

[agentsmith]

[quote=doomsday;1397241Its comparatively easy to go for all bells and whistles when you are paying retail. Its clearly not the case here so its only the privileged few who can afford all this high-funda stuff.
[/quote]

Brilliant post, doomsday! You (and many more) are the reason why I (and many more) are registered here [].

Thanks!

[pranavt]

Fine, I'll come out with the figures. The suspension job, including labour, springs, stiffening, mounting kit and other miscellaneous stuff cost me around 35K, give or take a grand. In hindsight, a full-blown HotBits coilover set isn't really out of reach, but again, it's something I don't really require at this stage. Another thing that I considered was that Viper was using the same setup but with Pedders springs on his TC'd City. If it was fine for him, my currently stock City shouldn't be a problem. I did have a ride in his car and found the suspension extremely planted and trustworthy.

The following brands make suspension stuff for the OHC from what I know. There probably are others that I'm unaware of.
Springs: Pedders, Eibach, HotBits.
Dampers/Shocks: Pedders, Hotbits.
Coilovers: HotBits, DMS.

Originally Posted by DocG

A short body Koni or Pedder or H&K or Tein will go through this with roughly a few hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars.

None of the brands that you have suggested make anything for an OHC AFAIK. DMS coilovers, new, cost around 150-200K Indian Rupees.

Originally Posted by DocG

Oh and since you got your shocks "stiffened" why didn't you get your springs cut?

Cheers

I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean by that? At no point were corners cut to get a cheap job done. The stiffening of shocks was undertaken after I had checked out Viper's car which had the same setup and rode very well.

[ssjr0498]

Very very well said Rishi!!

~ Shrey

Originally Posted by doomsday

Ahh, I never mentioned that did I? Its definitely not a simple case of high-viscosity oil being thrown in, which is what will happen when you get these things done at Shivajinagar or a similar place and get ripped off. If you get it done from someone who knows suspensions, he will ensure that optimum re-valving is done to arrive at the final damping rate- yes, some people do know what they are doing even though its a minority. So you just need to be careful with whom you are dealing with.

A branded setup offers better functionality and adjustability when compared to the this approach- however, even during the most spirited street driving a driver with higher than average skills will also be hard pressed to reach the absolute limits of a well-done revalving job on a sub 1.1 tonne, street-driven Indian car putting down 120 to 130whp max (rarely though); provided the other pieces of the dynamics puzzle (tyres, alignment etc.) are in place. Aftermarket turbocharged FWDs are left out of this equation since they aren't meant to be thrown headfirst into a corner anyways.

Can't comment on slightly heavier cars (like the Cedia) since I haven't come across any example with a revalving job yet but I guess they'll definitely benefit more from aftermarket coilovers when compared to something lighter like a Baleno or a City.

For someone not looking to track the car on a regular basis, an investment of 20-30k on suspension alone (at the very least, leaving out cars which have lesser aftermarket support) is simply not justified.



Right. And the customer pays for the R&D in part when purchasing the same. And it may be justified for a 200whp+ car, as even the most basic street performance dampers from brands like H&R (not H&K) or Tein retail at around US$900, which means someone looking to buy the same in India will have to shell out close to a lakh of rupees after factoring in the duties and importer margins. All this for a car valued at three lakhs to begin with. In all probability, the guy wouldn't have spent that kind of money on the performance mods for crying out loud. Boss, this is India, not SoCal.

And just because someone tooner doesn't know what he is doing and you ended up being the guinea pig doesn't make that a generic case.




Just to enlighten you, ghetto cut springs to slam the car won't do handling any favour, however, cutting the springs after doing some homework can easily lead to small percentage gains wrt spring rates. Getting the right preload is tough, but it can be made to work with matching dampers. As I said, its all about who does it.

Its comparatively easy to go for all bells and whistles when you are paying retail. Its clearly not the case here so its only the privileged few who can afford all this high-funda stuff.

P.S. Please don't type in bold, it equals to an offensive tone online. I understand you were trying to be sarcastic and all however, I can read and answer if you type in normal font. Thanks.

[pranavt]

or rather, back on topic, lol... Got the filter fitted today and did an ECU reset an hour ago. I'm loving the new sound and a bit of difference in acceleration Moar pics coming.

Just one thing though, the filter's between the battery and the suspension mounting bit, since that's the only place where the pipe can go and without sucking hot air. It's quite a snug fit there. Is it better to relocate the battery to the boot so that the filter has lots of space around it?

Also, Sunil had a drive and a ride in my car, hopefully he will give his opinion in this thread for all to see.

[v1p3r]

To put things in perspective, I've driven everything from 'ghetto' suspension chop jobs to Reiger and DMS, which is pretty much as good as it gets on this planet. The single advantage a good set of coilovers will have is near infinite adjustability within its operational specifications. Height, bump, rebound, spring compression, etc can all be played around with like crazy. It is possible to get very close to a specific point using local techniques, if you know what you are doing -- and there are enough people in BLR who know what they are doing. The only disadvantage is that such suspension setups are not adjustable, and thus always have some sort of compromise factored in.

Originally Posted by DocG

A short body Koni or Pedder or H&K or Tein will go through this with roughly a few hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars.

They make automatic weapons. Maybe you mean H&R.

Originally Posted by DocG

Where is the R&D in a local setup? How do they know the tolerances of your stock shocks? Just adding higher viscosity oil is not going to do this. If hydraulics were so easy then our stock suspensions should be dirt cheap from the company...

Let me also tell you that all imported motorsport-level struts do not come with prefabricated casings and joints for Indian cars. They are made locally, and they seem to be holding up just fine. As do the 'local' J Anand coilovers, which are used in the INRC.

Casting is actually a pretty easy process, but still, head-porting is something that often liberates significant amounts of horsepower. Using your logic, all cars should come from the company with high-flowing heads, not just the occasional B18C.

pranavt, relocate your battery to the boot. It should help.

[kutlee]

Originally Posted by pranavt

In hindsight, a full-blown HotBits coilover set isn't really out of reach, but again, it's something I don't really require at this stage.

have been following this thread for a while. how much does a full blown hotbits cost? would be hugely helpful. also is there new/used available in India?