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Old 12th September 2010, 12:34   #16
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Atlast, problem is sorted out.
MASS people found out a bent rear axle, responsible for tyre wear
There was a small dent in the rear axle assembly,which caused mal-alignment of rear tyres

Courtesy the potholed roads of God's own country and the 'superior' build of Dzire rear axle, its as flimsy as an umbrella rod !!


Last edited by sandygordon : 12th September 2010 at 12:36.
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Old 21st January 2018, 21:33   #17
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
Atlast, problem is sorted out.
MASS people found out a bent rear axle, responsible for tyre wear
There was a small dent in the rear axle assembly,which caused mal-alignment of rear tyres

Courtesy the potholed roads of God's own country and the 'superior' build of Dzire rear axle, its as flimsy as an umbrella rod !!

May I ask what was done as a result of this discovery?
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Old 21st January 2018, 21:59   #18
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
Atlast, problem is sorted out.
MASS people found out a bent rear axle, responsible for tyre wear
There was a small dent in the rear axle assembly,which caused mal-alignment of rear tyres

Courtesy the potholed roads of God's own country and the 'superior' build of Dzire rear axle, its as flimsy as an umbrella rod !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooka View Post
May I ask what was done as a result of this discovery?
One of the main reasons of rear axle bending in newer gen cars is the incompetence of the mechanics. If you notice, there is a sticker not to use jack on the axle. Older cars like the M800 which had solid rear axle were fine if jack was used. But not the new cars. If one isn't careful, most of the mechanics, tyre shop chaps and washing caps like to lift from the axle.

A picture of the same taken from internet :

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Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)-img20180121wa0073.jpg

The best option in case of such a damage is to change the beam.

Regards
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 21st January 2018 at 22:02.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 01:13   #19
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

Thanks, Sashi.
Is there any conclusive way of knowing that the rear axle is out of spec?
My mech said that even post swapping, there is no guarantee that things will be perfect... seems like a giant money-sink.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 01:32   #20
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Originally Posted by wooka View Post
Thanks, Sashi.
Is there any conclusive way of knowing that the rear axle is out of spec?
My mech said that even post swapping, there is no guarantee that things will be perfect... seems like a giant money-sink.
Sorry I wasn't able to reply to your query on my MGP thread. Here's what I'd suggest/ask:

1. Is there any case of abnormal tyre wear??Sorry if you have mentioned it and I missed.

2. Have you checked with other(preferably newer) alignment shops??

3. If Axle is gone then in 99% of the cases, an axle replacement solves the issue.

4. Faulty suspension and springs are also known to cause some degree of out of spec values(not that much which you have).

5. Get your rear hub and bearings checked once.

Ask your MASS to swap the axle of a known good car and check.

Last edited by Leoshashi : 23rd January 2018 at 01:34.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 01:46   #21
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

Hi again, Sashi.
Did I mention you're a credit to society? Allow me to answer in-line.
1. Is there any case of abnormal tyre wear??Sorry if you have mentioned it and I missed. Not that I can see. I've examined the tyres - nothing abnormal.

2. Have you checked with other(preferably newer) alignment shops?? This is MRF - the best in the city (or so I've heard). They employ the use of an AMC-tuned Hunter system - the owner was a bit flabbergasted at the result and was very concerned at my reading. He even ran it a second time.

3. If Axle is gone then in 99% of the cases, an axle replacement solves the issue. This sounds good, expensive, but is reassuring. Success depends on #6 below.

4. Faulty suspension and springs are also known to cause some degree of out of spec values(not that much which you have). I'd expect camber, and the likes, right? No clue how these parts (rear suspension and springs) are isolated for fault.

5. Get your rear hub and bearings checked once. Hub/wheel bearings? What would be a telltale sign of damage to these parts (also unsure which parts one's to look at.)

6. Ask your MASS to swap the axle of a known good car and check. I doubt I can ask them to do it - it's a laborious job and I don't see why they'd want to do just do so. Unless I pay 700+ for alignment and then insist - in either case, my agenda seems to be a poor investment of time and effort for them.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 02:10   #22
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Originally Posted by wooka View Post
1. Is there any case of abnormal tyre wear??Sorry if you have mentioned it and I missed. Not that I can see. I've examined the tyres - nothing abnormal.
If there is nothing abnormal or wrong with the wheels, I'd not be concerned about it honestly. I am getting a feeling they are making some error on their part. If it's genuinely so much off, then there should be some sign of abnormal wear.

Quote:
2. Have you checked with other(preferably newer) alignment shops?? This is MRF - the best in the city (or so I've heard). They employ the use of an AMC-tuned Hunter system - the owner was a bit flabbergasted at the result and was very concerned at my reading. He even ran it a second time.
Nice to know it's being regularly calibrated. Still I would test on another machine before shelling out 7500 rupees for the axle.

Quote:
6. Ask your MASS to swap the axle of a known good car and check. I doubt I can ask them to do it - it's a laborious job and I don't see why they'd want to do just do so. Unless I pay 700+ for alignment and then insist - in either case, my agenda seems to be a poor investment of time and effort for them.
They should. You should offer to pay them the labour. They have opened a workshop for diagnosis/solving issues. Swapping from some other swift is unethical, but they can swap a new one or from one of their TD cars. If they have a proper lift, then swapping the axle isn't a time consuming job.

Regards,
Shashi

PS: It's either a case of wrong measurement, or the axle change should solve the issue(unless your car was involved in some mishap causing misaligned repairs).

Last edited by Leoshashi : 23rd January 2018 at 02:14.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 02:24   #23
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
If there is nothing abnormal or wrong with the wheels, I'd not be concerned about it honestly. I am getting a feeling they are making some error on their part. If it's genuinely so much off, then there should be some sign of abnormal wear.
The tyres have been rotated thanks to three punctures, so I am not a credible source of information on tyre wear right now :(
Also, the overall thrust direction, potential braking line stability in panic situations, and gradual tyre erosion is definitely on my radar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
before shelling out 7500 rupees for the axle.
Would it be OK to have it fitted by an FNG and not the MAS$? I'm just contemplating overall cost in time and effort - I am cautious by nature and throw money at a problem as long as I can limit my exposure.

And just to be sure, it's 7.5K an axle? What else would one look to swap out? If you could be so kind to let me know what the suspension parts would set me back, it'd help immensely. I just overhauled the front suspension (arms and shockers) and I'm happy with the new-car feel. I hate rattles!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
You should offer to pay them the labour.
So I'll start off with a request to align and troubleshoot - offer them the money making opportunity to do the repair as well. Would you second this approach?

P.S -- there hasn't been a massive direct bang up that I am aware of. The alignment guys have (since I took the car from the family six months back) at two instances said, while under the car, that the car is 'clean.'

Last edited by wooka : 23rd January 2018 at 02:27. Reason: P.S
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Old 23rd January 2018, 18:35   #24
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Would it be OK to have it fitted by an FNG and not the MAS$? I'm just contemplating overall cost in time and effort - I am cautious by nature and throw money at a problem as long as I can limit my exposure.
Yes you can, FNG will be much cheaper. But they won't take the spares back incase the new axle doesn't solve the issue.

Quote:
And just to be sure, it's 7.5K an axle?
Yes its close to 7.5k an axle. I'll reply in the MGP thread with the exact prices and part number.

Quote:
What else would one look to swap out? If you could be so kind to let me know what the suspension parts would set me back, it'd help immensely. I just overhauled the front suspension (arms and shockers) and I'm happy with the new-car feel. I hate rattles!
Just the axle should suffice. When its taken out, do have an eye on condition of:
1. Rear hubs and bearing
2. Springs
3. Spring seats

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 23rd January 2018, 19:23   #25
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

Thanks, Sashi - this helps immensely.
Unfortunately, my MAS$ of choice has a dysfunctional alignment machine - there goes nothing.

Allow me to recap my experiences from today.

1. Maruti workshop #1 started off with 650 for alignment, a knuckle sort of a thing (can't remember what it's called, ?spindle?), and then the dead axle. Also said I'll need to give them the car for a few days. Refused to cooperate beyond this. Very unfortunate.

2. Maruti workshop #2 put it on the alignment machine - rear sensors refused to work. They used the thread method and said that the misalignment is within tolerances.. nothing special. One mechanic said he'll pay for new tires shall the need arise in the next 20K Kms.. another said that the dead axle is a dicey thing - difficult to diagnose outside a 3D alignment machine, and since I have new tires, it'd be too late by when we notice a glaring issue.

3. All other workshops (without seeing the car) have recommended replacement only. One guy said a proper frame straightening machine job will cost ~5k to patch this, and even they'd recommend just getting a new one. That used ones like mine are recirculated and unreliable. That my current axle is just as good shall in such a case. In which case, why should I trust a small MGP shop in the local market to source this reliably?

I've found no one who wants to take responsibility for this part.
If I were to find one, I'd get it changed on the presumption that it'd go back if it doesn't fix the problem.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 19:32   #26
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

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Originally Posted by wooka View Post
Thanks, Sashi - this helps immensely.
Unfortunately, my MAS$ of choice has a dysfunctional alignment machine - there goes nothing.

Allow me to recap my experiences from today.

1. Maruti workshop #1 started off with 650 for alignment, a knuckle sort of a thing (can't remember what it's called, ?spindle?), and then the dead axle. Also said I'll need to give them the car for a few days. Refused to cooperate beyond this. Very unfortunate.

2. Maruti workshop #2 put it on the alignment machine - rear sensors refused to work. They used the thread method and said that the misalignment is within tolerances.. nothing special. One mechanic said he'll pay for new tires shall the need arise in the next 20K Kms.. another said that the dead axle is a dicey thing - difficult to diagnose outside a 3D alignment machine, and since I have new tires, it'd be too late by when we notice a glaring issue.

3. All other workshops (without seeing the car) have recommended replacement only. One guy said a proper frame straightening machine job will cost ~5k to patch this, and even they'd recommend just getting a new one. That used ones like mine are recirculated and unreliable. That my current axle is just as good shall in such a case. In which case, why should I trust a small MGP shop in the local market to source this reliably?

I've found no one who wants to take responsibility for this part.
If I were to find one, I'd get it changed on the presumption that it'd go back if it doesn't fix the problem.
That's unfortunate. You can do one thing. Go to any MASS or MGP store, do a live stock search. If the part is lying at any location, take your car there, do the replacement on condition that you'll return the part if the problem isn't solved.

Pay for labour whether the issue is or isn't solved. They should agree, because they too have a hope of getting rid of their dead inventory.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 23rd January 2018, 19:43   #27
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Default Re: Suspension upgrade for Dzire (Maruti Swift Dzire)

Ha!
That's a fabulous idea
Labour should work out to 1.5K I believe, correct?

Edit: Any thoughts on the spindle that goes into the rear hub?
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