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Old 14th July 2009, 21:19   #16
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In this case, the jobs you have mentioned are fairly minor and can be done by local Mumbai tuners. The reason for that is because if there is any problem tomorrow, then you cannot take the car all the way to B'lore to get it looked into.
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Old 14th July 2009, 21:30   #17
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Can the mods edit the thread title?
It is misleading to call this project '...for track racing'.
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Old 15th July 2009, 00:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post

My options

stock motor,polished/ported,change in compression,standalone,exhaust and a intake job...

option two is plonking a esteem engine in to it,which is a good option but i have just 50k and i dont think the swap will come in that.

option 1 seems to fit in to my budget...and maybe a while later il get my self a wild piper...
There are a couple of things you need to look into- a little bit of foresight will go a long way in saving you money and headache.

If you go with the first option and do all works on the one-litre motor, you will have to throw some of the stuff (like the headers, for instance) and pay for them again when you are doing the mods on the 1.3-litre.

You said your budget is 50k- that should get you a 1.3-litre swap and basics (I/H/E) and maybe even the RD ECM if you are trading your one litre engine. Get the whole engine and swap it in, a much easier no-hassle way of approaching things. And its a swap that any accomplished tuner can pull easily- not something you need to get done especially in Blore.

This package will give you more fun per buck than going extreme with the tiny one-litre naturally aspirated mill. When you have more funds then you can pop in a cam and get headwork done as well.

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Can the mods edit the thread title?
It is misleading to call this project '...for track racing'.
+1

Last edited by doomsday : 15th July 2009 at 00:28.
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Old 15th July 2009, 06:07   #19
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Hi Scorpion,

just one quick question! Why LSD??

Cheers
Shery

Last edited by ssjr0498 : 15th July 2009 at 06:14.
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Old 15th July 2009, 06:36   #20
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Or just get the 1300 bottom half and stick to the zen head. Will lower your costs and bump up the compression a little as well.
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Old 15th July 2009, 09:15   #21
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Mods please do change the title,am sorry being layman in this field i had no idea what to call it...sorry

Can anyone shed light how much the 1.3 motor would cost and how much would i get if i trade my motor in return?Wont i need the ecm of esteem also for starters or will the zen ecm match(i doubt).
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Old 15th July 2009, 10:49   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post
Can anyone shed light how much the 1.3 motor would cost and how much would i get if i trade my motor in return?Wont i need the ecm of esteem also for starters or will the zen ecm match(i doubt).
A well maintained 1300 engine with wiring, gearbox, ECU should be around 35-50k. I doubt you will get more than 12k for the 1ltr engine. My suggestion would be to keep the stock motor and NOT sell it.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:18   #23
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Quote:
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Or just get the 1300 bottom half and stick to the zen head. Will lower your costs and bump up the compression a little as well.
IIRC, the bore size of the Zen (72mm??) is lower than the G13 of the Esteem (74mm). This means the whole thing has to be rebored, with new pistons/rings/sleeves etc. adding up to the cost. The Zen ECM will not have fuelling and ignition maps to suit the G13 and the rev-limit in place (6k rpm?) will also be for the one litre. All these aspects can be taken care with the RD ECM though. I'm not so sure about the rest of the fuelling though- namely injectors and rail; in that order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post
Can anyone shed light how much the 1.3 motor would cost and how much would i get if i trade my motor in return?Wont i need the ecm of esteem also for starters or will the zen ecm match(i doubt).
You are in Bbay- the holy grail for junkyard sourcing. Get yourself to Kurla (or through someone whom has contacts there) and you should be able to get a full motor fairly cheap. As Mcl suggested, anywhere between 30-35k for a full setup including harness, injectors, ECM and gbox should be a good price to start with.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:22   #24
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IIRC, the zen 1ltr head is a direct fit onto the 1300 bottom half. Shall clarify once I get back to Bangalore. Have seen a few cars run this setup and were really peppy to drive around town. Never bothered to dwell much into the tech details. A block should cost you around 10-12k and one can spend the rest of the money on the ECU. I think with the zen head the compression goes up a bit.
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Old 15th July 2009, 14:59   #25
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Sorry for the confusion in my previous post. Just checked with someone and I stand corrected. The block is indeed a direct fit but won't exactly be 1300cc because of the smaller head (as a result the compression will be slightly higher as Mcl previously mentioned). RD ECM will become a necessity in this setup though.

However, the valve size is smaller on the one-litre head- shouldn't be a problem now but if you are going for a cam later can become a hindrance. Finding just the bottom in good condition is also quite a task compared to a sealed engine in which case you might be forced to do a rebuild to eradicate problems cropping up later. Injectors are same for both the engines so no worries there.
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Old 18th July 2009, 07:17   #26
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Hey everyone here has already almost given you all the key points. Ditch the zen head and get a complete esteem longblock, the ports, valves and the cumbustion chamber. Design and size of the 1 litre head are puny compared to the esteem, you'll make very nice power even with a standard 1.3l engine in your zen. Just make sure as soon as you buy the block to rebuild it completely.

You dont want to mount it and then have the issue's crop up and dismount again later, labour will kill you there. Injector and fuel rail is same for 1/1.3L, intake manifold design is different and so is the port size of the intake manifold and so is the throttle body size different.

zen 40mm throttle body vs esteem 45mm standard

Complete package will flow much better, leave the head as it is where it is. Very few people in this country know what they are doing with port designs, surface finishing, bowl shape, valve angle and stuff like that. So there are more chances you'll lose power than make any or you may just land up shifting the power band of the engine, which will then give you many problems in the future, which will need to be corrected. Get a nice 285 spec cam, with not too much overlap. City driving will be a pain.

Get an adjustable cam gear and the best part of the whole package, the race dynamics stand alone ecu, trust me you car will be a dream for you from day one. Boring out the zen block as told to you earlier is more expenses, very torquey responsive engine, but reliability could be a factor depending upon who's boring the engine, what honing, piston to wall clearance and many other factor's.

I have typed way too much, hope i could be of some help sorry if i sounded repetitive, cheers, happy revvin!

Last edited by Jaggu : 18th July 2009 at 14:09. Reason: Readability, poor punctuation! Please take time to type in full anf proper english. Thanks
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Old 18th July 2009, 17:37   #27
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@Dragger,
Thanks for tht great info nikhil..''

Hada weird prob today in the zen the car wouldnt rev freely and felt very jerky,the nearby mechanic checked and told me that the c.converter is blocked,so we removed it and yes it was all jammed....

He suggested to replace it with a straight pipe as a new converter is very expensive but i do understand that i need to do my little bit and save the enviroment,so will be searching for one fron the scrap that looks ok...

At the moment the mechanic has removed the entire inside core,it now looks like an expansion...hehehe...

is this going to make any positive or negative effect???to be used for some time...i mean is this free converter form inside gonna help the flow someqwhere???
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Old 19th July 2009, 15:20   #28
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Good advice from Dragger, just wanted to add that one-litre cam will be way underprofiled to perform on the 1.3 and spending on an aftermarket cam will become mandatory. The whole 1.3 engine will keep you entertained for a while and you can go for a wilder cam, headwork etc. whenever finances permit.

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is this going to make any positive or negative effect???to be used for some time...i mean is this free converter form inside gonna help the flow somewhere???
You might actually be losing power (compared to a healthy cat-con, not a ruined one) because of the turbulence created in the exhaust system by the hollowed cat. Had come across this article a while back- proves the same with dyno figures.

Hollowed-Out Catalysts - Power Increase - Import Tuner Magazine

Last edited by doomsday : 19th July 2009 at 15:35.
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Old 19th July 2009, 19:21   #29
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Lots of good adivce guys, thanks. While we are at it can some one confirm if there are cross drilled/ventillated braking kits available here that fits the Zen? What are the options available ? Lot of people have complained about the braking even after retrofitting the esteem type2 brakes. Is the esteem brakes setup really good enough to take care of all the power?
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Old 20th July 2009, 08:29   #30
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the esteem setup is great,i didn't know many people were using it,they are complaining is really strange,are you'll only swapping the brake disc and caliper or the complete brake kit which includes brake disc,caliper,brake booster & master cylinder,also check rear wheel cylinder and drum,get it relined that might help aswell,i personally know of some extremely fast zen's which are more than happy with this setup,also buy genuine spares people tend to take it lightly but that makes a huge difference,hope i could be of some help,cheers,happy revving..!
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