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Old 26th August 2009, 19:44   #91
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Nice work on the carb setup buddy. love the detail gone into fitting those carbs.

Last edited by dinar : 26th August 2009 at 19:46.
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Old 26th August 2009, 20:15   #92
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@need_for_speed

How do you adjust the AFR in the second carb (the one on the right).
From what I understand its on the left side of the carb.
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Old 26th August 2009, 20:16   #93
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Originally Posted by need_for_speed View Post
1. To fix the disc you need to change your knuckles and hub as well. I used the Zen Diesel Knuckle and Hub because that was a perfect fit for my car with the esteem type II disc. I changed the booster during the engine swap. Only after changing the booster could i realise the difference in braking, till then it was worthless.

2. I thought of jus plonking the engine at first, but then changed my mind overhaul for the same pistons, just changed the rings and sleeve, in case this did not workout i had high compression pistons of 0.25 oversize ready, but with god's grace it worked out well.

3. No I have not cut the chasis for the engine to fit, the zen and the esteem engine bay are of the same size, so i had no trouble with that, as i mentioned earlier i had to alter only one engine bed, the one next to right side headlight.

4. I used the Zen Gear Box as i had sold the GT Gear box, but changed the Zen Final Drive in the box to Maruti 1000 Final Drive. Zen Gear Box's Final Drive has 75 teeth whereas Maruti 1000 has 78 teeth, therefore it gives me a better ratio.

Welcome
hey thanks for the pics and reply,

1. so u have the knuckles and hub of the diesel zen, did u buy brand new ones and fit them or 2nd hand ones ? wat was the cost involved in the zen D knuckles, hub and esteem rotor and disc ( new or used) ? also the brake booster is of the esteem type 2 only or some other car ( new used ) & cost.

2. M sure you must have had to make a custom intake manifold, how much did it cost you and what is it made of ?

3. what do u think if i install only a weber on the car will it be better dan 2 carbs ? any idea where i can source webers that would suit the esteem engine ?

4. are your carbs new as they shine and seem to be new, if yes how much? anything done to the carbs ?

5. Since you changed the rings did u not run int he car like 1000 or 2000 kms for the rings to set in?? cause ur supposed to drive within 3000Rpm and without ac .

thanks in advance,

now i am getting inspirde to get twin carb n not go mpfi
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Old 26th August 2009, 22:46   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
@need_for_speed

How do you adjust the AFR in the second carb (the one on the right).
From what I understand its on the left side of the carb.
Everything is interconnected in both the carbs, they simultaneously, except the accelerator cable i.e, there are 2 separate cables going from the accelerator, one to each carb

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeshan suleman View Post
hey thanks for the pics and reply,

1. so u have the knuckles and hub of the diesel zen, did u buy brand new ones and fit them or 2nd hand ones ? wat was the cost involved in the zen D knuckles, hub and esteem rotor and disc ( new or used) ? also the brake booster is of the esteem type 2 only or some other car ( new used ) & cost.

2. M sure you must have had to make a custom intake manifold, how much did it cost you and what is it made of ?

3. what do u think if i install only a weber on the car will it be better dan 2 carbs ? any idea where i can source webers that would suit the esteem engine ?

4. are your carbs new as they shine and seem to be new, if yes how much? anything done to the carbs ?

5. Since you changed the rings did u not run int he car like 1000 or 2000 kms for the rings to set in?? cause ur supposed to drive within 3000Rpm and without ac .

thanks in advance,

now i am getting inspirde to get twin carb n not go mpfi
1. Yes i did install only new ones, the cost i do not know as my elder brother has a automobile spares showroom here, so i jus go and pickup wat i need. The Booster is of Esteem Type 2, New.

2. It Costed me 11000 to make the manifold, complete aluminium.

3. Mikuni Carburetors are the best for the suzuki engines, nothing to beat them.

4. The Carbs are perfectly New, nothing done to them each costed me 4800

5. Yes i did run it in for 3000 kms. Kept it under 2500rpm. A/c or without a/c does not matter, jus keep the rpm low but not below 1000, and in the top gear was going at 90 km/h in the run in period at 2500 rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
Nice work on the carb setup buddy. love the detail gone into fitting those carbs.
Thanks a lot buddy
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Old 26th August 2009, 23:28   #95
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@NFS : Thanks for the complete details and sharing the same.
Even though you have a car set up. I have a question whetehr it is possible to just use the esteem head and bottom on a Zen MPFI 16 Bit ECM without changineg anything else (Only change would be the head and bottom ).And if it does require any further changes , What would those changes be ? A brief detail would be helpful.

Thanks & Regards
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Old 26th August 2009, 23:31   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
@NFS : Thanks for the complete details and sharing the same.
Even though you have a car set up. I have a question whetehr it is possible to just use the esteem head and bottom on a Zen MPFI 16 Bit ECM without changineg anything else (Only change would be the head and bottom ).And if it does require any further changes , What would those changes be ? A brief detail would be helpful.

Thanks & Regards
You need to check the intake manifold, i dont think it will set. The Manifold will differ.
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Old 26th August 2009, 23:42   #97
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@NFS ; So it would be manifold at max + head , bottom half for making it Ezen.
This means all sensors wiring etc will remain stock .
Right ?
Thanks
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Old 26th August 2009, 23:56   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
@NFS ; So it would be manifold at max + head , bottom half for making it Ezen.
This means all sensors wiring etc will remain stock .
Right ?
Thanks
IIRC, the esteem engine has a few additional sensors. And how do you expect the zen ECU to handle the ignition and fueling of the G13b motor? So if you are doing an engine swap you will need the wiring and ECU from the G13b as well.

However, you can just use the G13B bottom half (block) and retain the zen head along with everything else that comes with the zen (including wiring, ECM etc). This will bump up your CR a bit. Just run a FPR to add some additional fuel just to keep the temperatures down.
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Old 27th August 2009, 00:16   #99
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@maclaren1885 : Thanks for the reply. I really do not want to rip apart the wiring .I am still under the impression Head , Bottom , Manifold , ECM ( with info from You , i have searched a lot some say zen ECM works fine but other school of thought says ECM change is required).Also can i just put in a 16 Bit Esteem ECM in the same coupler which i already have ?Also would a 32 bit ECM from esteem would fit in the same coupler of Zen ECM ? I have a 16 Bit ECM in the Zen .
Also FPR means ?
Regards

I am sorry but i am not trying to hijack the thread and i really do not want to open a new thread just because of the MPFI thing .

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 27th August 2009 at 00:19.
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Old 27th August 2009, 00:52   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need_for_speed View Post
Everything is interconnected in both the carbs, they simultaneously, except the accelerator cable i.e, there are 2 separate cables going from the accelerator, one to each carb



1. Yes i did install only new ones, the cost i do not know as my elder brother has a automobile spares showroom here, so i jus go and pickup wat i need. The Booster is of Esteem Type 2, New.

2. It Costed me 11000 to make the manifold, complete aluminium.

3. Mikuni Carburetors are the best for the suzuki engines, nothing to beat them.

4. The Carbs are perfectly New, nothing done to them each costed me 4800

5. Yes i did run it in for 3000 kms. Kept it under 2500rpm. A/c or without a/c does not matter, jus keep the rpm low but not below 1000, and in the top gear was going at 90 km/h in the run in period at 2500 rpm.



Thanks a lot buddy
zen petrol knuckles & hubs were removed and the Zen D were a straight bolt on without any other minor modifications or adjustments ? or were there any other changes which need to be done for fit the Zen D knuckles and hub ? i am asking as i am thinking as well, dont want to be after buying new parts worth thousands. can u ask ur bro an approx value of the brake components parts ?

what clutch are you using ? ?

have you ported the head ?

also is it possible that i can get a pic of only ur intake manifold so that it'll help me get a better idea, i know a guy who is saying that he can custom make it for me , but is goin to use mild steel and charges are approx 7-8. he was saying aluminum metal pieces are difficult to get and there is lot of wastage as well...

in mumbai new esteem carbs cost 6k with MGP, dat i had asked 6 months back.

Guys what should i do? should i do mpfi or twin carb, cost in both is approx the same, please suggest i am confused.
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Old 27th August 2009, 00:55   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeshan suleman View Post
zen petrol knuckles & hubs were removed and the Zen D were a straight bolt on without any other minor modifications or adjustments ? or were there any other changes which need to be done for fit the Zen D knuckles and hub ? i am asking as i am thinking as well, dont want to be after buying new parts worth thousands. can u ask ur bro an approx value of the brake components parts ?

what clutch are you using ? ?

have you ported the head ?

also is it possible that i can get a pic of only ur intake manifold so that it'll help me get a better idea, i know a guy who is saying that he can custom make it for me , but is goin to use mild steel and charges are approx 7-8. he was saying aluminum metal pieces are difficult to get and there is lot of wastage as well...

in mumbai new esteem carbs cost 6k with MGP, dat i had asked 6 months back.

Guys what should i do? should i do mpfi or twin carb, cost in both is approx the same, please suggest i am confused.
If your finding a similar cost go for mpfi, there are many people to rectify errors caused later with mpfi, not everyone can rectify a carb
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Old 27th August 2009, 00:57   #102
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I would also suggest MPFI . Lesser hassles / tune ups / maintenance means peace of mind.
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Old 27th August 2009, 01:00   #103
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@maclaren1885 : Thanks for the reply. I really do not want to rip apart the wiring .I am still under the impression Head , Bottom , Manifold , ECM ( with info from You , i have searched a lot some say zen ECM works fine but other school of thought says ECM change is required).Also can i just put in a 16 Bit Esteem ECM in the same coupler which i already have ?Also would a 32 bit ECM from esteem would fit in the same coupler of Zen ECM ? I have a 16 Bit ECM in the Zen .
Also FPR means ?
Regards

I am sorry but i am not trying to hijack the thread and i really do not want to open a new thread just because of the MPFI thing .
Initially when i wanted to sell my engine i had got a fellow team-bhpian who eanted to buy my engine and convert it to mpfi, his was a mpfi zen, i spoke to mu tuner and he said wiring will remain, what changes is ecm , intake manifold and injectors, now even i am in two minds of keeping my e zen twin carb or mpfi, even if i do mpfi i will buy ( if buying new) a zen euro 2 wiring only for my zen, but if i am going uto buy used wiring anything will do even the baleno can be adjusted in the zen , theres a baleno engine g/box and wiring for sale with the engine dealer that i got my engine from, its for 75k, m getting tempted !!!


please confirm if the diff between 16 bit ecm and 32 bit ecm is euro 1 and euro 2 ?
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Old 27th August 2009, 01:09   #104
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I haven't had much experience with the esteem ECU, so not sure if the couplers are the same for both. Maybe Rdkarthik would be a better person to ask.

FPR means a Fuel Pressure Regulator. Google it for more info. It increases the fuel pressure.

MPFI is less hassle and better when it comes to performance anyday.

A bzen sounds very tempting. 75k could be a little too tad expensive. Try negotiating it down to around 60k.

Also, like I mentioned before I think the esteem engine comes with a few additional sensors, so the wiring can be different to the zens. Along with the ECU, intake manifold, injectors, fuel rail will have to be changed too.
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Old 27th August 2009, 01:12   #105
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@ Zeeshan ; I can confirm that Euro II uses 16 Bit and the Zen that came in odd lights / new shape was using 32 Bit Euro III. Also if you plonk a Baleno it would require work on the mountings and wiring integration with your current instrument console , AC etc.

I wanted to go got EZen conversion but have my doubts as i am not able to clear them .

1.) Brakes ; @NFS has clarified in totality .Thanks to him.
2.) Head ; Not sure .@mclaren just pointed out it can be retained.But i am wondering will the port areas for intake an dexhast not be different in a 1000CC and 1300CC mill.But i am fine with a new head too.
3.) Bottom half : I would certainly go for a new one from Maruti Spares.
4.) Injectors ; Well it has been confirmed from 2 mechanics they are the same in Zen and Esteem.
5.) Manifold : I believe it will definitely need to be changed.
6.) ECM : i would be happy if i could just put in Esteem 16 bit ECM against Zen ECM with no wiring changes .Also i am not clear whether a 32 Bit ECM also work fine with the same wiring.
7.) Sensors : What additional sensors are there in Esteem .Not clear.

I could go to some tuner and get it done but what will be fun then !

Edit :
8.) Fuel rail also.

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 27th August 2009 at 01:19.
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