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Old 19th September 2014, 10:03   #91
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWikram View Post
Btw, how much time does it usually take for a remap? I'm sure they'd have maps readily available lets say for a Polo, which would maybe increase the fuel efficiency by say an x% and improve the low end grunt by a y%, but what if it needs more customization as per my needs? will they entertain a fussy guy like me?
I was kidding when i said you can drive down. In case of remaps, it depends on how hard the ecu is to remap. In the Ecosport thread, one of our own member has put up a detailed thread on the remap process.

This is how it generally works:
1. The tuner first understands your requirement. What is the pain point, where would you like the power to improve, etc etc.
2. He would then extract the stock map from your car and make the changes as necessitated in the map.
3. Load the map and drive for around 40-50kms for the new map to take effect.
4. Check if it matches your criteria. If not, the tuner will sit with you when you drive and check where he needs to make changes to the map. Based on this he will make changes and reload the map.
5. Test again and once you are fully happy with it you are free to enjoy the car.

Experts or people who have got the remap done can chip in with their inputs too or correct the above process if any. For remaps, some of the tuners like T-o-T have tie up with people in different cities. So they will remotely get the remap done on the car though they may not be present in your city. Some even travel all over on a set schedule and do the tuning. You might want to call and check with the different tuners and go with the one whom you feel most confident about.

Last edited by abhinav.s : 19th September 2014 at 10:06.
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Old 12th October 2014, 12:19   #92
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Lightbulb What is Engine / ECU Remapping ?

While visiting a reputed tuning garage at Cochin with my friends Polo GT 1.6 TDi, they claimed to improve the performance of the car from 105 Bhp to 145 Bhp by remapping the engine. We left to another tuning and car accessories garage where the guy claimed that it is impossible to improve the bhp to 145 just by remapping. His theory went like this:

Quote:
Most car manufactures tune the engine for maximum reliability and longer life, and hence they always leave a reserve power of around 30% which will be used only in case of situations which demand more power, like if they the car is carrying more load than recommended, or one of the wheels is punctured etc. So, by remapping, we can utilise the extra reserved power all the time, regardless of whether it is required or not. But, this will increase the stress on the engine and hence decrease its life. So, the maximum power that can be gained by remapping is 30% for Polo and hence a theoretical max. power would be 136.5 Bhp, which will not be attained in real world situations.

Although many claim to have increased power to 145 Bhp, it is not proven!
We are having second thoughts now!
  1. What is the actual process of engine remapping ?
  2. Does it decrease the life / reliability of engine ?
  3. To what extent does it improve performance ?
  4. Are these performance figures claimed by tuning garages true ?
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Old 12th October 2014, 19:27   #93
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Default Re: What is Engine / ECU Remapping ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjuunz View Post
While visiting a reputed tuning garage at Cochin with my friends Polo GT 1.6 TDi, they claimed to improve the performance of the car from 105 Bhp to 145 Bhp by remapping the engine. We left to another tuning and car accessories garage where the guy claimed that it is impossible to improve the bhp to 145 just by remapping. His theory went like this:



We are having second thoughts now!
  1. What is the actual process of engine remapping ?
  2. Does it decrease the life / reliability of engine ?
  3. To what extent does it improve performance ?
  4. Are these performance figures claimed by tuning garages true ?
You can extract 145 bhp from the 1.6 TDI sure with just a remap, its no biggie.

Some parameters like CRDI rail pressure, injector pulse width, fuel pump pressure, drivers wish map, Boost (If it has an electronic boost controler) etc etc are changed.

You will need to take the tune to a dyno to ascertain flat spots if any and iron them out or if the tuner has already done all that for your model of the car and ironed everything out, then its just a matter of half an hour before you are good to go with the new tune.

But remember, at the end of the day, its your car and more power is never free. Injectors will be a little more stressed, so will be the fuel rail and crdi pump. I don't know their FOS and how close you will get to them. but one thing is sure, the EGT ( Exhaust gas temperature) is something that will need to be kept a watch on if you are into revving the car or top speeding a lot.

Also can your gearbox handle this much increase in torque and bhp is a question you need an answer for.

If you personally ask me, enjoy the 105 bhp and XX amount your torque your car already has.
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Old 21st March 2015, 20:27   #94
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Cool Code 6 Tuning

Some of you are aware that i have picked up a Thar, after coming from the silky DDiS Swift, Thar's Crde engine felt... well.. LIKE A TRACTOR! I was ok with the power, for the weight of the vehicle it moves pretty well, BUT it was like those Volvo buses. No not the handling, my vehicle has Tein shocks all around, which makes it predictable in handling department, but the Rev range. It was pathetic! Usable from say 1800 to about 3000 beyond which it is absolute waste to use the right foot. So one keeps shifting up and down in that narrow rev band. Second issue, it feels very restricted and rough (tractor reference), does not like the idea of revving.

I was in dilemma on what to do. Then came info that Code 6 tuning has done a map for Thar and is a riot. The said vehicle is running on 31" offroad tyres and belongs to a good friend, test drove and i was mighty impressed the way in which the vehicle was moving.

Fixed up appointment for today morning with Code 6 and met up with Sajan at their outfit Bay 6. Ecu came off the vehicle in about 5 minutes and was handed over to Sajan, who had to struggle a bit to open it up (being holiday no helping hands). The parts inside are delicate and one minor slip is all that is enough to mess up the ECU, so Sajan patiently goes around the ECU mm by mm to open it.

My original plan was to go for a stage 1 and get the rev issue sorted, but then Sajan insisted that i try his latest brew (let us call it Stage 2). He went on with his job of carefully loading the new map after taking backup of the OE code.

Put the ECU back, a test crank and engine fired up as usual. Since its stage 2 he insisted that we get the EGR cancelled and remove the cat con can. So the mech took another 30 mts to get this done and we (Sajan in front and Vidyut in back) again started the vehicle and took it out for a test drive.

First gear and wooooaaahhh vehicle just leaps forward and unlike earlier just keeps revving, it was already 4000+ rpm and with a blink of an eye. I see a huge burst of black smoke hmmm. Sajan assured me just keep driving, so we went on and every time i give gas i see a plume of smoke and vehicle just keeps climbing revs like a rabid locomotive. ECU needs to learn parameters since such advanced stage means all the historical data is also wiped clean. Pulled over to restart the engine, yes that is also needed. And drove back..

That is when i noticed, the smoke has disappeared and the acceleration is still ON!

Was in a hurry so said bye to Sajan and hit the Sarjapur to Indira Nagar via IRR, and i was grinnning from ear to ear every time i gave gas. Apart from EGR and Catcon this is stock, no air filter or exhaust mod. But the way in which the vehicle now revs and puts on power is just awesome. Mind you i have driven Thar's with tuning box and Scorpios. But Trust me, the ECU remap and a Piggy back SHOULD NOT be compared! Unlike feeding more fuel, a proper remap just creates a whole new possibility with even a not so modern diesel engine. And as i said this is just a moderate tune, considering the vehicle dynamics of Thar, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Yes more is possible! to Code 6 Tuning.

Name:  Code6.jpg
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EDIT: My Thar runs on 28.5" tyres so acceleration is also much more brutal compared to the previous vehicle i drove.

Last edited by Jaggu : 21st March 2015 at 20:34.
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Old 21st March 2015, 21:07   #95
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Default Re: Code 6 Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
That is when i noticed, the smoke has disappeared and the acceleration is still ON!

Was in a hurry so said bye to Sajan and hit the Sarjapur to Indira Nagar via IRR, and i was grinnning from ear to ear every time i gave gas. Apart from EGR and Catcon this is stock, no air filter or exhaust mod. But the way in which the vehicle now revs and puts on power is just awesome. Mind you i have driven Thar's with tuning box and Scorpios. But Trust me, the ECU remap and a Piggy back SHOULD NOT be compared! Unlike feeding more fuel, a proper remap just creates a whole new possibility with even a not so modern diesel engine. And as i said this is just a moderate tune, considering the vehicle dynamics of Thar, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Yes more is possible! to Code 6 Tuning.

Attachment 1351628

.
The remap seems a simple enough mod which makes a world of difference in drivability especially in a not-so-advanced engine like the Thar's.

That said, I wonder why dont manufacturers offer something optimal as these maps from factory?By optimal I mean optimal, as in something with reserve left and not maxing out.

I've heard good remaps don't affect fuel efficiency either and in some cases improve it.Any cues?

Last edited by octane1002 : 21st March 2015 at 21:14.
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Old 21st March 2015, 21:36   #96
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Default Re: Code 6 Tuning

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Originally Posted by octane1002 View Post
I've heard good remaps don't affect fuel efficiency either and in some cases improve it.Any cues?
I am sure it will improve in my case since drivability is so much better. Vehicle can pull in 4th gear as low as 35 Kmph with a gentle foot. Infact mild inputs in moderate moving traffic Thar is now an automatic with no need to shift.
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Old 9th September 2015, 12:31   #97
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

I have a VW Polo TDI (2011) Model which is a 1.2 l engine.

The main problem i have is with the drivability as it does provide enough torque. It does not pull enough at low rpm and i have to constantly shift gears. For eg. If i am at 30 kmph speed i have to come back to 2nd gear to pull it instead of staying on 4th and cruise it from there.

So my question is that can a chip tuning or mod box /remapping help me here? And which is the best place for it? I am from chandigarh by the way so nearby places will help too. Thanks.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 12:51   #98
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

Has anyone used the Lumax tuning box with multi drive processor ? And if so, how is it when compared to others in the market ?
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Old 17th February 2016, 21:30   #99
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Default My Engine Remap Experience With Sx4 & Grand I10

July 2015 Petes remap
My SX4 diesel had clocked 80k kms and I got the Remap itch. I decided to go with Petes remap since Petes is a well known name. Remap costed 28k and power gain was quoted as 110bhp and 245nm.There was wheel spin even in 2 nd gear and turbo kick was more addictive. I loved the remap initially. Same day, I had to drive back 400 kms to mangalore from cochin at night. This drive made me hate the remap. I noticed flat spots in map and huge pile of smoke above 3k rpm. Also fuel efficiency dropped by 2 kmpl. I started missing my stock map. I had to schedule a drive back to cochin for stock map which I couldn't. I drove for 2000 kms more and noticed low oil pressure warning light. Maruti service advisor asked me to do engine overhaul. I cross checked the same with my FNG mechanic and only piston rings and engine head service was done. I dont know if remap was the culprit. Post repair, I used to drive car very safely. Finally after driving 5k kms I got my stock map. Engine oil consumption was nothing significant after piston rings change.

January 2016 Wolf moto remap
I had run 93k kms in my SX4. I did not face any oil consumption or mileage drop issues. But my car used to smoke a little even in stock map now. I read about switchable maps from Wolf and wanted to try the same. I drove again to Kochi for remap. Wolf tuner read my stock map and he was surprised to find out that it a 512 kb file. This is the first time he saw 512 kb file in 90 hp multijet engine. He had not remapped any sx4 before, but did a lot of lineas and puntos which has same engine. He told switchable maps requires ECU recoding and it would take time. I had to get back to mangalore. So we decided to go for a normal remap and I was promised switchable maps in future. Rajiv, the tuner started the work on remap. He told he is not going to change fuel pressure, injection cycles etc. He increased turbo boost pressure to 2600 mbar, made mild changes to SOI(start of injection) and increased fuel by 8 percent. He flashed the new map and we go for a drive. I missed the wheel spin, addictive turbo kick of Petes remap. I could feel only mild increase in low end. I started revving above 2500 rpm and car was picking speed all the way to 4000 rpm. Power delivery is very prominent in 5 th gear. I shift to 5 th gear at 2500 rpm and push the pedal, Car picks up speed very well all the way to 4000 rpm.In stock map power used to taper above 3000 rpm and now it is increasing. I was happy with the remap. But there was black smoke above 3k rpm. Rajiv will correct it and fine tune when he flashes switchable maps in future. There were no flat spots and linear power delivery in turbo zone. I enjoyed my drive back to mangalore. I have driven 5000 kms post Wolf remap with absolutely no issues except black smoke under hard acceleration. I would be getting switchable maps soon from Rajiv. Excited!!

November 2015 Code 6 remap for Grand i10
My Grand i10 had clocked 50k kms and I wanted to remap. I did not want to go back to Petes and I did not know about Wolf moto. I contacted code 6 and Tune O Tronics. I decided to go for Code 6 since the price quote was lesser. I drove to their bangalore workshop and remap process was initiated. Tuner told 90 bhp 200 nm would be ideal and he can give 100 bhp 220 nm with few precautions. I asked for the more powerful map and he worked on it and Flashed. I was very excited to feel 100 horses. We go for a drive. I start the car and accelerate.. No difference. Shift to 2 nd and accelerate.. May be there is slight difference. Shift to 3 rd and ya there is mild increased. Noticed mild increase even in 4 th and 5 th. But I was quoted 100 bhp and mild difference, I was not at all happy. Tuner did some changes to map and still I couldn't appreciate power gain. What I noticed was huge amount of Black smoke. I decided to get back stock map and work on remap at later date. Tuner had said Grand i10 is VGT, but I think it's a FGT. Guess the remap methods are different for FGT and VGT equipped cars.

Code 6 experience was before I got my SX4 Wolfed. I asked Rajiv about grand i10 and he said he has not done remap on grand i10 and could try. I am still confused about grand i10.I have asked for demo of diesel tronic tuning box in Grand i10. If am not happy with the box, I will try working it out again with Code 6 or else catch up with Rajiv at Kochi.

I will list down few Points I learnt from interaction with various tuners.
1.Tuning box basically deals with fuel rail pressure or injection modulation. Diesel tronic dual channel deals with boost pressure too. All sensors have voltage range of 0-5 volts. Tuning box alters these values and fool the ecu to inject more fuel.
2.ECU Remap. Power gain is possible with a remap in many ways. There are a lot of parameters to play around with. Fuel rail pressure, injection duty cycle, SOI, Torque limiters, Drivers wish map, smoke map, Turbo boost pressure etc etc can be altered. So with a remap, power delivery is any day better than tuning box.
3.About Petes remap. Petes has tie up with many international tuners. Drawback is you can't sit with your tuner and make him tailor the map for you. Also Petes is good for VAG cars since they get the remap done from Custom Code. I dont know about the Petes remap for other manufacturers.
4.Switchable ECU REMAP. Wolf moto is the only tuner in India who offers switchable maps for fiat multijet, Fiat T jet, Renault dci engines at same or even lesser cost than normal remap of other tuners. Few tuners do have option of switchable maps using a obd flasher which would cost around 30 K plus remap price.

I will post more details as I clock more miles in My Sx4 and after I get switchable maps from Wolf.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 17th February 2016 at 21:53.
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Old 18th February 2016, 10:06   #100
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Old 22nd February 2016, 04:36   #101
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

I have confirmed turbo charger in Grand i10 is FGT. I will attach the picture of Turbo. There is no electronic solenoid like VGT and there is a wastegate actuator with pressure pipe(blue colour) going back to turbo compressor. Code 6 tuner was adamant that Grand i10 turbo is VGT. He claimed to have increased the turbo boost and only my turbo charger would be at risk if I do high speed runs for long time. It is not possible to increase boost of FGT without ECU control by remap. A manual boost controller is required. Since the remap was done thinking increased boost with other parameters change would help, entire tune went wrong. There would be no effect if you increase the boost in a map for cars with FGT without ECU control. Code 6 has many happy remapped customers. Grand i10 is a rare sight in any tuners garage. But I expected the tuner to do his home work well and atleast to differentiate between VGT and FGT turbo.


I have driven almost 400 kms with RD box now. Power delivery increases after driving few kms in every mode, thanks to self adaptation technology. P2 mode is really insane. It totally transforms my Grand i10. I find black smoke under hard acceleration only in P2 mode. I will take a call on buying the box after checking mileage.
Cheers
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Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)-img20160219wa0005.jpg  


Last edited by Dr.Naren : 22nd February 2016 at 04:42.
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Old 4th September 2016, 03:33   #102
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Post Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

Hi BHP-ians,
I have been looking to Power Up my New Scorpio for quite some time but was confused on the same (Tuning Box or a Map)
Finally after Extensive research and reviews it was evident that a map is better than the tuning box anyday, as very rightly pointed out by some BHP-ians.
Next Step was choosing the Tuner.
Since I am from Kolkata there is No viable option for a remap here.
Kiirus usually visits Kolkata on their own time, when they have more than 5 cars lined up.
Next I contacted Pete's (Sent mail and Called) NO reply from them.
Next in Line was Red Rooster. They replied back within a day saying that remapping of the New Scorpio has not been tried and suggested me a Tuning Box.
So slowly all these options Checked out.
Then I contacted CODE6 , Sajan was very patient in hearing out my requirements and said the same that it hasn't been tried and he will have to create the map of his own which involves certain risks regarding reliability.
So i agreed to take on the risk and fixed an appointment . I drove down to Bangalore in June with around 25k on the ODO.
The ECU was opened Very Carefully, being a Precision operation.
Then it was connected to the Laptop and voila,remapping was in progress.
I needed a Moderate Map with a Power Boost and No Effect on the present Kmpl with the EGR, Rev Limiter Off.
Took some hours to create the map and the ECU was back connected with the car.
Initial Test rounds were taken in the Bangalore city itself , which wasn't very Co-Operative considering the severe traffic conditions. But my beast was Accelerating like crazy which needed some tweaks in my driving style.
Due to the Time constraint I didn't get a chance for a Dyno test but the Torque was connected to the ECU which gave some very satisfying Initial Stats.

Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)-stats-initial.jpg

Then I drove the Car from Bangalore~Goa~Hyderabad~Kolkata.
The Power on tap is very satisfying and its now much more of a pleasure to drive. Since the engine needed some time to learn the new parameters and get used to the new map, I gave another 10k Kms before i performed another test. Currently my ODO reads around 34K kms and I did another test on the Highway by almost redlining till 4th Gear and finally 5th for cruising. Attached Screenshots of the Latest Test results from Torque PRO.

Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)-14233616_10153963670725838_339933355_o.jpg

So Now, Here I am, Very Satisfied every time I Crank the Engine and Press the accelerator driving one of the Most Powerful Scorpio with a Smile.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 03:11   #103
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

ECU Remap Vs Tuning Box : Myths & Facts

I have tried 6 remaps and 1 tuning box in last 1 year.

SX4 ( Petes / Wolf / TOT)
Grand I10 ( Code 6 /RD tuning box / TOT)
S-Cross 1.6 (TOT)

Also I was trying to gather more knowledge by reading various international tuning / remap forums since last few months.

Tuning Box :

It could be single channel or multi channel boxes. Most of the boxes are rail pressure modulation type. Another type is injector pulse width modulation. Few tuning boxes like RD dual channel box control both rail pressure and turbo boost.

We all know that or have read about it several times that a tuning box makes power by "fooling" the ECU. Yes, it's correct. Most of the sensors are rated from 0 to 5V. Tuning box manipulates the voltage and sends wrong values to the ECU to inject more fuel. It's a simple tech and nothing complicated. More fuel = More power!!

I have seen many argue that tuning box is not as safe as remap. Well, it's not actually true. Remap is much more complicated and I will get into that later. Yes, the tuning box would increase the rail pressure / turbo boost (but within the limiters set in ECU maps) and put more stress on the components. But, what many don't know is : The factory stock limiters (max turbo boost, max rail pressure etc) set in the ECU are not altered with tuning box.

Power delivery in a tuning box couldn't be controlled to the level of good remap. There might be few spikes in power delivery. Also, with a tuning box you can't delete EGR etc.

ECU Remap :

ECU remap is much more complicated process. There are hundreds of maps in the ECU. Finding the right maps and making precise changes is really not that easy unless you develop the tune on a dyno. I have hardly seen any custom remap guys in India "develop" their maps on dyno. Recently I have heard that Code 6 tuning is developing / perfecting the tune on various cars at Spitfire Dyno.

To name some of the maps which are basically changed during remap are :

1. Drivers wish map : Changes made to this map improves "throttle response". This is the main advantage for tuners and also one of the easiest way to fool the customer. Yes, I said fool the customer. If the tuner makes changes only in this map, customer would feel that the car is more faster and be very very happy with the results. It would act like a sprint booster / pedal tune box.

Quoting few lines from a tuning / remap document :

Quote:
"Firstly we can fool the car owner into thinking his car is much faster. If we make the map so that our
100% throttle settings are at 50% throttle we will have changed what is called “throttle response”
What you need to consider is not many people actually put their foot flat down on the throttle, and
if they do it is for a very short period of time. Make it so that it happens at only 50% and the car will
respond quicker, the brain will think the car is faster because it is used to how far we press the pedal
and how much acceleration we feel. Additionally when we do accelerate in our standard car we are
used to the acceleration feeling falling away the faster we go, our driver will not be able to separate
these 2 known pre-existing feelings (i.e. before we changed the throttle settings) because our brain
learns over time how to alter pressure on our foot and the feedback it gets.
"
I had experienced the same on my S-Cross 1.6 with Tune O Tronics remap. The first map by TOT had torque monitoring error codes. So they gave me a second map which felt faster but did not have any errors. I drove on this map for almost one month and luckily I found out that 0--100, in gear figures were as good as stock map. I did raise this issue with TOT way back in September 2016 and they gave me another map later. I am still running on the same map and it's faster on V box too. TOT had told me that their testing guys abroad had "detuned" their map due to protocol issues and they were not aware of it etc. I have huge doubts if it's true now. I was not aware of these facts then.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post4066267 (Maruti S-Cross 1.6L : Remapped by Tune-O-Tronics. EDIT: Issues on page 6)

So guys, please be very careful and don't let your butt dyno fool you . Easiest way to check gains is to do 40-120 kmph run in 3rd / 4 th gear.

2. Smoke limiter maps : This is like a limiter map. It limits the fuel by looking at amount of air going into the engine.

3. Torque limiter maps : There are many torque limiters maps in ECU based on atmospheric pressure, gear based, engine coolant temperature etc

4. Injection maps ( SOI / duration) : Injector duration maps define the amount of time for the injectors to remain open to inject X quantity of fuel. Start of injection (SOI) is the timing of when fuel is injected into cylinder. It is based on degrees of crank rotation.

5. Turbo boost pressure / limiters maps : These maps define the turbo boost and the amount of air going into the engine.

I have mentioned only few major maps which are mostly changed during a good remap.

Now the Challenges :

There are different ECUs and the maps are not the same. It takes lot of effort for a tuner to identify all maps on his own. Basically the tuners depend on Map packs / DAMOS /A2L files to identify the various maps in ECU. These are sold for each ECU type and makes the work lot more easier. If the tuner is able to identify the required maps, half job is done!!

But, what I have seen is most of these custom remap tuners in India don't invest on these small things and get over confident. They develop the tune by experimenting on customer cars.

Few examples of remap going wrong :

My Grand I10 :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...bangalore.html (Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore)

Suraj's Abarth Punto :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post4157807 (Maruti S-Cross 1.6L : Remapped by Tune-O-Tronics. EDIT: Issues on page 6)

I hope everyone understands how difficult / complex it is to tailor a good map. Tuning box feels simple and easy power. But, a remap if done rightly has better control and you can extract more power across the revv band.

My Conclusion :

1. Tuning box : Good for cars under warranty, plug and play, can be sold / used on next car, also good for cars which are hardly remapped

2. ECU Remap : A good remap is better and can extract more juice out of the engine. It's always better to go with tried and tested tunes. For example, APR / REVO / Shark /Malone tuning / Custom code UK are known all over the world for VAG remaps and it's safe to put your hard earned money. If it is a VAG car, I would choose remap from these reputed firms anyday over a tuning box. For other cars, it's better to do a proper research and go with any custom tuner in India. Say Wolf Moto has something unique for Fiat cars. Wolf is the only tuner in the world to provide switchable maps for Fiat, Renault cars. Also, some big firms like Quantum UK, Viezu have entered Indian market and provide remaps for all the cars. Obviously they would have more experience and claim to do around 3000 remaps per month globally. I did check these claims with Alientech directly. The disadvantage is you can't sit with the tuner and customise the map. Anyways, as per my discussion with Viezu and Quantum : they do customise maps till the customer is happy.

There is no hard and fast rule like tuning box is safer or a remap is safer. Basically both make power by increasing fuelling. Its upto the customer to choose the right product based on his priorities.

Disclaimer : I do not claim to have any expertise on this topic and it is just my opinion based on my experience and learning on various forums. There might be some errors / mistakes which could be debated / corrected.

Cheers!!!!!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 23rd March 2017 at 03:35.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 18:49   #104
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

Continuation of above post :

Good Tuning box vs Bad Tuning box

All the tuning boxes work on same principle. So there is not much to compare on the basics. It's all based on the effort taken by the tuning box manufacturers to develop the box for a specific car.

A good company will invest on R & D. They will test the car on dyno and also log various parameters. It will require fine tuning on the dyno, followed by road testing. After thorough analysis, they would release the box to public. There are many Chinese companies who do not do any research and just fake the European boxes. Yes, it would work most of the times. But we really can't say if it would be as safe as a box thoroughly tested by reputed companies.

Next aspect is practicality and gizmos. Few boxes come with wireless remote control, mobile phone apps to change power modes. It's not a need, just helps in ease of use.

Good remap vs Bad remap :

This is what many don't know about. A bad tune is very very harmful on long term. As I said in my previous post, there are multiple maps in ECU and tailoring a good tune is not easy, but definitely possible.

I have read one very interesting document. The document explains clearly about bad tune vs good tune. If any tuner claims to do a custom remap / does it within 1 hour (say for a car which he is working on for first time) : It's a bad tune most of the times. Yes, I can say that because there are lot of calculations to be made to tailor a good tune. It would take couple of hours to even few days.

So what does a bad tuner do??

He opens the stock file and identifies few maps using tuning softwares like Win Ols, Swiftec, ECM titanium etc. The tuner makes guess work and increases the values in terms of percentage on few maps. Ultimately there is more fuelling and yes it will make power. This is what most of the tuners do and save on time. I will quote some interesting lines from the said document.

Quote:
Bad tuners will just change numbers until they get
smoke, then back them off a bit until the smoke reaches a level that you don’t see it in your mirror
as you drive down the road
This is how a bad tuner changed drivers wish map by mere guess work :

Quote:
Why did our “bad tuner” make a 10% change to our map, and why is it so bad?

The percentage increase, how was it done and why is it wrong.

How was it done?

One of the mapping software systems you can buy will show you the tables we are
looking at, you can select each map table one at a time. With the map selected you can then
highlight and area and using a built in “button” at the top increase this selected area just by using
the up and down arrows on your keyboard, or by typing a number into the box next to the button. If
our tuner was using another software then he would copy the table to Microsoft Excel and using
Excel’s built in facilities created a simple formula to increase the numbers by a percentage. The
formula used is =A3*1.1 this will give a 10% increase to one number, you can then copy this formula
to all the other numbers and Excel will auto update the formula for you. After we have looked at all
the maps I will do a chapter on using Excel, we do not need to know how it works to understand the
maps and the changes we will want to make to them.

Firstly a percentage increase has not been calculated it’s just been guessed at.

Secondly 10% of 0 is 0 so where we have small numbers the increase we have is also very small
which means we have not smoothed out our map, in my modified map I have changed in the
1218/25 cell the original number from 13 to 21, a 10% increase would have seen 13 changed to 14.3.

Thirdly, we want a smooth accelerating car at the end of our remap, our percentage increase
method now means that we go from 0 to 14.3 over a long gap but to 54 in a short space, so we go
from a nice slope up a hill to suddenly the side of a mountain with a near vertical rock face.
There are many more maps explained in that document and how a bad tuner makes changes by increasing percentage (guess work). I have attached the said document. Interested readers can go through it for more information and understand the facts about remapping.

Cheers!!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf So you want to get into mapping cars.pdf (2.03 MB, 202 views)
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Old 23rd March 2017, 19:28   #105
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Default Re: Tuning Box versus Remaps (Diesel tuning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
ECU Remap Vs Tuning Box : Myths & Facts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
There are many more maps explained in that document and how a bad tuner makes changes by increasing percentage (guess work). I have attached the said document. Interested readers can go through it for more information and understand the facts about remapping.
Very informative post!! Thanks a lot Dr. Naren!! Specially the PDF doc which is a bible of sorts for people looking for a remap. Skimmed through the contents and the index itself is so exhaustive. Superb find. Thanks again !
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