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Old 2nd December 2009, 21:19   #136
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Great to see that this thread is now going on the right track. People are cooling off and thats a great start.

I will offer my two bits (uncalled for, but im still offering it being a neutral party and a member of this forum and it pains me when any member gets hurt, here obviously two are, viz; Vidiatech and Viper.

I have the opportunity of knowing Viper but every person responds to different people differently, hence i will not say that Viper ir right completely and Vidiatech is wrong completely, lest i be termed as Viper's friend or mouthpiece etc. People who know me from the forum will know i NEVER indulge in side taking purely on friendship or acquaintance. If i wanted to take sides, i would have never commented on this thread.

In fact after this i called him today simply to tell him that if he had done the things that Vidaitech claimed, he was in the wrong... i got his reply but will put his replies to the questions as we go further.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pjbiju View Post
Can Viper in all honesty say that he fitted the FFE on a bone stock Corsa and test it? If he did not, the benefit of doubt should be given to the customer and he should send a free replacement.....
As i said, i called him and asked this first hand. He has said that he got his cousin's Corsa for a template and FIT it in the car to test it before he sent this piece to Vidiatech.

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All the others speaking about him as threatening to blackmail/malign viper etc. pause to think for a moment. This is exactly what a whole lot of forum members do (or have done) when they have issues with dealers, banks, manufacturers, insurance companies etc. Many of us tell those guys that we will go public with negative publicity if they do not resolve our issues. So I feel it is a typical example of a kettle calling the pot black.
I sorry but this is certainly not a fitting comparison. We are on a public forum that has certain rules and strict ones mind you. We do get sales calls from cell phone companies everyday of out life but if someone from Team-Bhp calls you trying to sell something he will be met with the strictest of Mod action so thats the difference in what we do everyday elsewhere and what we do on the forum. There are things you dont do here, what you normally do in real life.....simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
Vdiatech,

Please do talk.

You are the customer & you are entitled to get good service. But give a chance to the supplier to sort out the issue (ofcourse not at his own pace)

I don't understand the cry for "evidence" Does the FFE supplier got any evidence that this piece fitted exactly in a Corsa or does he got any Quality check for his product?


Viper has been doing FFEs & Why can't he give an installation procedure for such offsite customers? He is not having these issues of mismatch for the first time.

The LEVIS' example is a bit out of track.

Has anyone seen an Obese Corsa or a size zero Corsa.

So if the FFE is tailored for Corsa, it should fit in Corsa

Firstly its not rocket science to fit headers on any car. I can understand that may be needed for a DIY guy but not for an experienced installer.

Re the evidence i spoke to Viper at length. He has gone to say that the same template is lying with him, that he used to get this Corsa's FFE done. He says he is confident enough to say that if anyone is willing to come forward and bear the expenses of manufacturing another piece, he will manufacture the entire headers using the same template and if it mismatches one bit or does not fit he is ready to refund the entire amount to Vidatech. And if it fits what about all the wrong things that according to him have been said in this thread? Anyone wants to answer that?
I could say nothing more to him. I think he is being very just and fair. He seems confident enough, will there be someone who is willing?

Coming to my Levis example, pray tell me what is so different or out of track? What was that about an obese or size zero Corsa? Have i missed something here because i dont seem to understand or is it that you have not understood my comparison??

I agree with you completely that if made and tested on a Corsa, should fit a Corsa. But then i have seen people who have not been able to fit something as easy as aftermarket filters made for the car or even OE products on a particular car. That cannot be blamed on the product, that is an error in installation and how many persons have you seen admitting that they could not install something or that they missed something leading to a faulty install. The best way is blame the other guy, especially since hes not in your city.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
You stole my words sreejith,

Guys common we have a guy who has been saving money for months togather to get something for his car, and finally he gets what he wants and takes it to some local guy, who wants to make some money, he removes most of the things to make the install look complex so that he can extrot money at the end, and guess what the headers does not fit, our man now has no option but to revert to stock but the mech says there is little tweeking to be done which will fix it. Our man dosent have a choice but to oblige as as per his expectation(our all expectations) a bolt on part means plug and play. So this might be ~98% of what might have actually happened.
I absolutely agree with you. I said these very same things earlier.

Quote:
As sreejith pointed out this is not the first time viper is having an issue with his headers. Paul barber also faced an isse and there are others whose names i dont remember at the back of my head.
True. But didi the guys who had problems with his headers earlier refuse to take his calls?
Re Paul Barber, read the earlier posts, he was sent a full replacement, after which he never posted that he did and apparently never even returned the earlier so called faulty ones.....great, how convenient, two for the price of one huh? Correct me if im wrong guys but that was written somewhere above.



Quote:
....that dosent absolve viper for the moral responsibility of sending some one some untested part. viper if you can provide some proof that you tested them on some car it would definitly hold up your case, but again whay didnt this fit on this one. Rerouting the pipes(be it anything) should be probably the last resort, well i am sure vidyatec is not making that decission now.
Absolutely agree but when Viper replied through someone, that someone was labelled as being his mouthpiece.

Quote:
Viper the product is faulty period. what happened after that, he cut it open blah ...blah is secondry, BTW do you have any documented terms and conditions that doing small tweeks to the header will voild warranty, and also what if there are leaks are we supposed to fix that ourselves or send it back to you? who will bear the shippment cost etc... I hope you does not shut your online trading shop after this incedance, but probably we all need answers to these questions, or else accept the product to be faulty and replace it, what you do with this one is your problem.
Read the quoted text and screen shots of their conversational emails.
Viper has apologise if Vidaitech thought the product was faulty and has offered to help out and solve the problem if possible. Then how can he be accused of being unprofessional and not wanting to agree, etc etc. I find this most rational. What happened? Monetary compensation only was asked i presume. So now whos unreasonable if one sticks to ones stand? I can read this surely else everyone can.

Quote:
I know my tone is little harsh well i am trying to prove a small point here, if i am enraged reading this thread, i can understand what will be the man himself be going through who had to save and wait for over 6 months to get a crappy product.
22 days to be exact, where is a six month wait involved and are you not being judgemental now about some product of which you know nothing of except what you read. Be rational here.

Quote:
@V12, you are again missing the point here, was the product faulty or not? You might have great relations with viper as you do repeat bussiness with him, and i am sure he takes good care of you as well, but here is one guy who lost his 6 month worth savings and has lost faith on the trading completly.
Its V-16. V-12 is another member.

How do i know if the product is faulty or not? In fact how do you know for sure too. The product was tampered before it was fitted and why was it tampered in the first place? SO we have to give Viper the benefit of doubt. How can you pass judgement like that?
Yes i know Viper from the forum as do many people, I have a good relation with him as i enjoy with most people on the forum, I may or may not do business with him but whats the point? There are many satisfied Viper customers here too but thats not the point. Its not a Viper against Vidiatech thing here. Dont take it so personally.

Im as sorry for Vidiatech for having lost his hard earned money but is that an excuse for stonking someone's reputation? See the title of the thread.... looks like the sensation was created with the title itself. Talk anout the product, why are you getting into his business practices, whether one is right or wrong.

And talking about Vidaitech, it does not seem like hes lost faith in the Human race, please dont be melodramatic. Anyone who can suggest a trade of reputation against money is not so innocent, please wake up.

Quote:
Guys please forgive me if my tone is harsh but we all are condeming e trading here not the reason why e trading became painful in this case.
We are not condemning E trading here, try telling Ebay that i will only talk to you on the phone....will they listen?

When Viper made so many calls, why were they not answered, is it that these so called allegations were an afterthought?
See..... you dont like this tone right? Neither do i. I never meant it to mean this but only as a way to make you understand what you guys are stressing on.



Quote:
Too many if's and but's!!!
There are an equal number iof not more iffs and buts in Vidiatech's case too. Lets not get into that. We are here to resolve an issue. lets not get it more complicated.

Quote:
Vidya please fight for your right. you have enough proof, you dont have to justify your stand in front of people after all your sufferings.
Vidya, please resolve the issue dont do something that will make matters worse between you two please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post


To Summarize

My Faults

1. Ordering from Mumbai, when plenty tuners in Chennai ( I have already given my reason : Shoe string budget of mine and dream to have FFE for 7 months )

2. Not discussing heat resistant coat, sound of FFE. Checking difference between a centre exhaust muffler and expansion chamber. I asked for an expansion chamber ( hoping it would look like automechs and I got a normal centre muffler ( looks like my OEM, not sure if thats how they are
supposed to be))

3. Not having some extra funds, just in case things go wrong.

4. Not taking VIPERs Calls and insisting on email communications only

5. Cutting the headers , although it was a simple 2 min job to cut the headers at one point, slide them in and weld it back !
It was not a simple two minute job man. Please understand this. Its this simple two minute job that has caused all this besides the fact that you have not bothered to take his calls which gives him the benefit of doubt.


Quote:
VIPER's fault

1. Promising a one week delivery and taking 22 days to deliver.
Agreed, but he says you were informed of the delay, unless he is lying here.

Quote:
2. Contradicting statements on the progress
What are those?

Quote:
3. Not double checking the FFE for faults ( strictly in my opinion )
He has something else to say even on the email but lets forget this as that will never be deciphered. Please read my above reference to this point wherein he has made a suggestion.


Quote:
4. Offering to make good for my loss and when I quote any of the 3 options to make good for my loss, not responding !
You gave him only one option. Give me money!! Obviously he was not comfortable with your option so thats where the daggers were drawn. Then not talking to him inspite of him calling you several times. Then when he gave you an option to call him as he was tired of calling you, you use that against him.

Quote:
5. A lot of you are asking me to talk/negotiate, I am still open, while he has closed this !
Then pick up the phone and call him. Whats stopping you? If he does not respond positively, we all will see Viper in a different light. Prove him wrong then, go ahead and use the phone.

Quote:
6. Not understanding a customer, when he writes about the problems and rubbishing off the customers claims initally .
I cant see him rubbishing anywhere your claims flatly as you put it, what has he not understood about you?

Quote:
Ps. Not sure if I should mention this, but there was an abusive message on this threadt posted by VIPER throug AKSHAY. I had to report it to MOD's who edited out the word.

I am only saying this because I have never used any abusive language. People who know me, would vouch for this !
You are not sure but you still mention it. Why the sham. You wanted to mention it and you did. I saw the post and IMHO there was no abusive language. He was wondering why you were behaving like a XYZ. which tantamounts to why are you behaving stupidly. This is not abusive? You did not like it and apparently reported it.


Quote:
For the critics, well I dont know what to say ! I still feel I have received a sub-standard product and all this is because of a mis-communication etween AFZAL and VIPER. Somewhere the testing of end product has been neglected and now it is too late for either one them to admit this !
The mis communication is between YOU and Viper with YOU being theone to blame. Viper says he could have sorted the thing out in a jiffy had you answered his calls or made the installer talk to him. Maybe his product was faulty but then why didn't you answr or callhim back. Leeks like you were so eager to get the headers installed, that you threw caution to the winds and your bad luck your installer also took you for a ride aned blamed everything on Viper. Did your installer, at anytime, advice you to send the headers back or not install it? That means he was confident that the error was not so large, or maybe there was no error at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Dont you think you are passing judgement now? he had some inabilities to take phone calls and was responding to emails right? so where is your problem? you can fully sympathise with some one who we all know is not doing this for the first time. Isn't this forum all about sharing experiences and learning, if this was "washing dirty lenin" it would have been locked the way other threads were locked.

PS: Please do suggest a more grown up and matured way of handling this whole thing.

Pramod

Is he a paraplegic that he cannot take calls? What is the inability involved? That is a ridiculous statement. Well we are getting contradictory signals from you and your friend. HE says he knows a lot of stuff and is a DIY guy and you say he is a first timer.

Yes this is a forum where everyone is trying to help the other but one will get little or no help if one will try to malign without proof, another member, whether it is Viper or anyone else. The response will be this strong against wrong propaganda, please note.

Please give your friend the advice of handling this issue maturely. It is his immature and brash handling of this whole issue which is blowing out of proportion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Jignesh has been kind enough to say sorry 'if' the piece was faulty. I am happy there !

I would only request the mods to close, if a small refund is given or a new header without any leaks and which would sit in without touching the AC PIPES is sent (which will not happen as Jignesh has decided long ago not to respond to me) !

This is being mature. Realising your mistake, and being bold enough to admit it. If it were done i this manner there would have been no problem from the start.

Stop shouting for a monitory compensation, if it were coming it would have been sent to you in the first place.

Jignesh WILL respond to you. CALL HIM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Well In his final email he has told me that he will not communicate (in an email, that was in response to me inisting that i wanted only email communication and he insisted on talking to me. He has also said that in a post through AKSHAY.
now that its settled, please call him,. You have to make the first move, He has made many earlier ones where he was rebuffed.

Quote:
That being said, I am really glad that he is open to negotiation now.

Also, you should appreciate that I have never personally attacked VIPER, past compliants or his business model or gains claims or his reputation as a tuner. I did try to settle it through emails and when that did not help for many a days, I only posted on the forum MY EXPERIENCE.
Forget all that now he was always open for negotiation, thats why he was calling you. He also apologised and asked what he could do to sort things out inhis email which you have posted.

Quote:
I am really hoping like scooby said, to shake VIPER's hands and clear the air. if he feels an apology is due from me for the way I have handled things, I will respect it and do so when things are settled.
Excellent. Im sure Viper is reading this. You call him and he WILL settle this, After all he is a mature man and you two should solve this without any more mudslinging on the open forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Guys, I am leaving for Bangalore tonight. So If I dont post/reply promptly please dont whack me . I am there till 6th and back on 7th morning.

Ofcourse when I am free and have access to interne and I will look into this thread.

Meanwhile if VIPER calls me and we reach a resolution (my terms (inability to pay) mentioned in the messages below), I will be the happiest guy and will apologise whole heartedly if he honestly feels there is a necessity. I again maintain, I only quoted my experience and intention was not to fire a NUCLEAR MISSILE as some one quoted it ! If I have to call VIPER then it will be on 7th only !

I dont mind an e-resoultion as well ! It does not have to wait till 7th then

I have come forward many a steps ( always wanted resolution in my emails and messages here) , VIPERS turn now..

Thank You
Good. I dont think you should expect him to call you but if he does, that will be his graciousness. Frankly after all this if i was in his place, i wouldnt. Viper if you are reading this, im not inciting you. Vidya, call him and make a new start, Then if he behaves stuck up, we will start a new thread against him.....just kidding!!

Last edited by Rehaan : 4th December 2009 at 03:26. Reason: Quoted information corrected + reply regarding mod activities removed.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 22:54   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
So, if the expansion chamber what I received is right, then I need only headers.
If the EC is not the right one then I need headers and EC ! ( in both cases, no delivery charge to me , I have to now pay the installer to fit these !)

On my part, I will send back the headers ( and the EC ) through the same courier guys 'to be paid by the receiver'
I am confused now? What is it that you want, the EC or the Headers or both?

I presume you have not spoken to Viper. Sending back the FFE without speaking to him at first?? Bad move. Even your friends who jumped to your rescue without knowing anything will advice you this.....Why?....What good would it do to send back the whole FFE at the receiver's cost? And why would Viper accept it and pay for it too? But if he did then its a different story. Just a while ago you saw the light and were sounding all up there, now you go and want to send the FFE back at the receiver's cost... Im sorry to say this but you seem to have finally lost it. I feel like a fool for having intervened and tried to resolve the issue, with your fickle attitude, the problem is never going to be resolved. God bless you and hope you dont have another angle in a minute from now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
This just might be the stupidest thread I've ever read on TBHP. My opinions and emotions at this point (Sat and read all 9 long, dreadful pages):
If its so stupid why are you on it?

Quote:
1) Let's be honest and get this out the way, the Indian after-market modifications scene is nothing like the mass market retail examples being given. This is an after market FFE, not a pair of jeans, not anything else! So stop with the analogies, as they simply don't apply!
Well if you fail to see the resemblance i cant force you to. Thats your opinion. It does not have to match mine or anyone else's for that matter.

Quote:
5) Is there any written warranty notice or claim form that comes with such a product? For those who've likened it to jeans, Nokia cell phones etc!
Neither does your pair of Jeans. Its to uphold their reputation that they would want to change/mend it. Try telling them ill only talk through email



Quote:
8) Why is vdiatech asking for a refund? Wouldn't a replacement suffice? That should be the way to go.
HEs asking for a compensation which is translated as a refund by you. Would your laptop company acept your claim of refund if they found you had opened it up and shut it, even without doing anything?

Quote:
9) vdiatech I request you to contact Viper via the phone. You can request him to commit to the solution via e-mail, but real-time communication is the best in such cases. If you feel it necessary, record the communication.
Forget it. Right now hes planning to send the FFE at reciever's cost. I dont even think the courier company or carrier will agree to that.


Quote:
2) Warranties and replacements are what normally take place, not refunds! And none of these warranties are written on paper, they are given by the tuner to protect their reputation.

4) In case you experience any problem the first person you should call is your tuner/vendor so they may direct you on how to solve it, as they are the manufacturer/dealer and therefore have more knowledge about their product than anyone else!
Right on. But one has to contact the tuner and cant expect the tuner to reply and respond positively or even, at all ,if there is an attempt at tarnishing his reputation.

Quote:
3) NEVER get into a project without having cash to spare in case of problems. We've seen this time and time again. With any modification, the price that is estimated is never right, it's either lower or higher, so leave room for the unanticipated stuff!
This is the case of a simple FFE. IM sure there are cheaper guys in the south fixing FFEs. Cant comment on their expertise though their existence is a presumption. Viper was asked to send the goods because he had a reputation which the buyer believed to be good. I am not buying the story of the FFE being ordered from Viper because he was cheaper. Please!!

Tried to help but looks like im failing, some times some people are stubborn and problem magnets!!
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Old 3rd December 2009, 00:50   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
I am really hoping like scooby said, to shake VIPER's hands and clear the air. if he feels an apology is due from me for the way I have handled things, I will respect it and do so when things are settled.

Many thanks for your kind help.
why when things are settled? maybe if you apologize for not taking his calls it might just help in settling your issue faster.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post

Also, you guys dont seem to understand that I am somebody who is literally broke ! Even if I had spare 2K, dont you think I would have got FFE from the IGNITE GARAGE in chennai for 14 K which would have been completely fitted, tested ad delivered !


It is unfair to ask me to pay for 1. my situation and 2. for product i received 3. There is no damage to headers. The headers was cut where AFZAL had welded two pipes and the same place welded back. So no damage because of my installer!
well im sorry for sounding harsh, but buddy if you are literally broke i would expect you to be a bit more careful when your dealing with something you just paid a whole lot for. since the exhaust meant spending so much for you, you could have been a bit more patient while fitting it.

anyway to anyone who is saying that the exhaust is faulty and are adamant on that point, why dont you get proof that viper hasnt tested it on another corsa before sending. or if you think his design is faulty why dont you take up his offer of making another header from that template, you will get your money back since you are so sure the header will not fit a corsa. there is no point arguing about the exhaust being faulty or not anymore since there is neither proof that it is faulty nor is there complete proof that it was perfect but viper seems better off in this perspective since he is saying that he has the templates from which he made the exhaust.

vdiatech i hope you call up viper and whether you apologise or not about not answering the calls i am sure you will come to a conclusion. best of luck.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 03:07   #139
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Things to learn from this thread,

As a Customer

1) Doesn't makes sense to buy customized FFE or any such job from a different city just to save a few thousands bucks.Its just not worth it.
2) Customer should realize that it will be difficult to get any after mod support if any technical problem or fitment issues arise later since vendor is in different city,last he will hear is to send it back, in that case who bears transport cost?
3) It is also possible that things can get damage (crack/bend) during transport from one city to other due to not so good handling of courier company, in that case you cannot blame the supplier so its customer who will suffer, you can claim from courier co. but you never know how long it will take.
4) It becomes easy for a customer if there is any leaks or cracks developed after few months of usage to get it fixed if its done locally.
5) one should not alter/ cut weld without knowledge of vendor if there is some problem fitting the stuff especially if its brand new under warranty, it has to be brought to their notice.
No vendor will give you warranty if that piece is altered/cut without his permission.

As a Vendor

1) Raise level of standards eg: If i have to buy an exhaust system of an branded company like Skunk2 from U.S for Honda i would not worry , cause these guys have really done their homework so its matter of plug & play & i know it would fit. It takes good amount of R&D and testing to achieve that.

I know one thing for sure, Vdiatech would not have started this thread had his exhaust system fitted without any issue. Period

2) Educate customer in advance about time to make a customized job the delay arising due to unwanted circumstances,shipping cost, damage arise if any.warranty policy etc etc
3) For outstation customer, its more of responsibility of vendor to make sure that a customized job is done right at first time taking all technical aspects in to consideration & this requires involvement with your local fabricator. merely assigning job to someone else does not help.
4) Recommending customer for options, eg like ceramic coating,heat wrap etc telling him advantages & its worthiness & let him decide if he wants to pay extra for that.

Eventually things go wrong sometime so instead of playing blame game, its necessary to talk to each other & sort out the matter in which both parties have a win win situation.
That sums things UP.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 10:57   #140
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Ford_Rocam has summed it up very well.

I think we should leave this thread until there is an update from either of them.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 13:54   #141
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i guess this thread should stopped untill vdiatech and viper call each other and settle the matter and come to a better solution.

period, FORD ROCAM has summarized the best. very neutral and the most sensible.
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Old 4th December 2009, 10:05   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
if I were you, I would expect either the entire money back or a replacement
Fair enough provided that the product had not been modified (without consent).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
My Faults
VIPER's fault
Vdiatech the first step is that you recognise that both parties were at fault. Your cheapest option should be to work with Viper because Viper has been paid. The modfications/corrections you require for a functional product might cost you a bit more but willl surely be less than a whole new FFE.

That said your safest option might be to chalk it up as a learning experience (we all pay fees in the school of life - I am a few decades older and still do) and get this made locally where you will have better control over all variables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
He has stated this categorically and in agreement to NAvin's resolution and as Navin has posted earlier.
If Viper and Vdaitech have agreed to talk and resolve this then hey we can eventually close this thread too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
...we used to get FFEs from Govindji (Apex exhaust systems, Worli, Mumbai) for our Fiats and the damn things never ever fitted without a fight. Every damn car was different. Even the guys working on Chip Foose's overhaulin' do the whole thing from start to finish on that particular car!
Behram,

Fiats, Ambassadors, Heralds, and even the Contessas of the past were hand built. No two were ever the same. I assume todays (post Opel, Ford, Daewoo) cars are much better organised and parts can be interchanged with less or no trouble. So the exhaust from a Corolla should fit another with little or no trouble and no modification (cutting/welding/etc..) no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
Behram, what you say is true. but it also means that there is no such thing as a BOLT-ON FFE; only a best approximation.
I am not as current as Behram but I assume that modern cars might be more standardised. If they were not, robots would not be able to do welding and some assembly. Still a bit of pushing and shoving (not nesscarily cuttting and welding) can be expected.

Discalimer: I have not got much hands on experience with cars made post 1980.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
He says he is confident enough to say that if anyone is willing to come forward and bear the expenses of manufacturing another piece, he will manufacture the entire headers using the same template and if it mismatches one bit or does not fit he is ready to refund the entire amount to Vidatech.

Re Paul Barber, read the earlier posts, he was sent a full replacement, after which he never posted that he did and apparently never even returned the earlier so called faulty ones.....great, how convenient, two for the price of one huh?

You gave him only one option. Give me money!!
Then pick up the phone and call him. Whats stopping you?
now that its settled, please call him,. You have to make the first move, He has made many earlier ones where he was rebuffed.
1. Gogi, I think Viper has made a fair statement. Vdiatech, the way I see it Viper is more than willing to meet you more than half way.

2. Ref Paul Barber: How does Viper know that the first product did not fit. He did not get it back.

3. Vdiatech having modifed the product (however minor the modfication may be) withtout the consent of the the vendor automatically disbars you from asking for a refund. No vendor would tolerate this unless the vendor sees a business opportunity in your actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Its V-16. V-12 is another member.
Gogi I alwyas knew you had a few screws missing, but 4 whole valves?
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Old 4th December 2009, 11:20   #143
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Originally Posted by navin View Post


Gogi I alwyas knew you had a few screws missing, but 4 whole valves?
you mean cylinders right?
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Old 4th December 2009, 11:41   #144
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Ok, The only mistake I admit to is not speaking to Viper over phone.
I always thought, dealing with emails, helps prove a point, if need be, in the future ! Also that I am not a phony person ( read it as telephonic/phony). In my opinion, my first conversation did not go well with VIPER and thought the conversation was one sided and I did not get to say what I wanted. So, I chose email.

Probably thats my fault.

I still standby what I wrote about the quality of the workmanship, lack of stringest testing before packing it off to a distant town. The delay I can live with ! I still beleive, all this is because of mis-communication between Afzal and Viper. Thats all I have to say.

Now, like you guys suggested , I wil call VIPER this evening and ask for a replacement headers , with good finish and no leaks and something that would fit in without brushing against the AC PIPE.

My final offer to VIPER I will make this evening after all my meetings is

1. Please send a replacement header, good finishing, after through checking
2. Please pay for the delivery of the same and also ensure that it reaches me promptly
3. I will return the headers and VIPER would have to pay for that
(for those of you who asked, which courier would accept without pay, my answer is , thats how VIPER sent them!, So I am sure, they would take it back that way !)
4. Apology for not taking his calls

Also, can someone please PM me or post an image as to what the expansion chamber should like. Thats something, I should verify with VIPER.

I will post how my telephonic experience goes !

Thanks
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Old 4th December 2009, 12:04   #145
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vdiatech: you are asking for way too much. you fiddled with the headers he sent you and refused to talk to him about your problem. viper will be doing you a favour by just replacing the headers forget paying for shipping.
BTW according to me the expansion chambers can have more than one designs. (if expansion chamber is what i think it is)..
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Old 4th December 2009, 12:17   #146
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I would say a reasonable compromise is as follows:

- Viper should send you a new set of headers which should work without any issues. Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- You send the old set back to him and again Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- If the new set works then you should agree to pay him 50% cost of the new headers as you have rendered his old set unusable and after meddling with it any evidence has been destroyed.

Both parties have incurred losses and there is no win win situation for one side alone. What you are asking for is a little unfair IMO.

You had to incurr loss with your fitting guy and extra modifications and Viper will loose 50% cost for the new headers.
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Old 4th December 2009, 12:26   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
- Viper should send you a new set of headers which should work without any issues. Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- You send the old set back to him and again Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- If the new set works then you should agree to pay him 50% cost of the new headers as you have rendered his old set unusable and after meddling with it any evidence has been destroyed.
Sounds like a very fair deal to me. Let's be honest, Maruthi made a mistake by cutting the headers without talking to VIPER. VIPER on his part has sent a bad product & failed to mention whose head the shipping's gonna be. If someone says I will ship this to you for a payment of Rs.xxxxx, you would believe that includes shipping.
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Old 4th December 2009, 13:51   #148
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From what i understand, fitting the headers in a Corsa requires the AC piping etc to be removed and reattached, etc.

I have a gut feeling that replacement set is gonna end in the same cycle because it will be fitted by the same local mechanic who seems to be prejudiced (and holds a grudge since work was not done from him). This is my personal opinion about the fitter's thinking. I have not spoken to viper or anyone else about this topic at all.

I would suggest, viper should just refund him 50% of the money, vdiatech should go to a local guy, make new headers and reuse the expansion chamber, endcan (if there), etc and close this topic.

Viper refunds and gets out of this mess. Vdiatech gets a local guy who can always sort out minor niggling issues.

Personally, vdiatech, your demands are too optimistic and unrealistic.
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Old 4th December 2009, 14:16   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
I would say a reasonable compromise is as follows:

- Viper should send you a new set of headers which should work without any issues. Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- You send the old set back to him and again Delivery cost to be borne by Viper.
- If the new set works then you should agree to pay him 50% cost of the new headers as you have rendered his old set unusable and after meddling with it any evidence has been destroyed.

Both parties have incurred losses and there is no win win situation for one side alone. What you are asking for is a little unfair IMO.

You had to incurr loss with your fitting guy and extra modifications and Viper will loose 50% cost for the new headers.
agree with you on this. This is very reasonable considering both sides of the story.
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Old 4th December 2009, 14:29   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Ok,

1. Please send a replacement header, good finishing, after through checking
2. Please pay for the delivery of the same and also ensure that it reaches me promptly
3. I will return the headers and VIPER would have to pay for that
(for those of you who asked, which courier would accept without pay, my answer is , thats how VIPER sent them!, So I am sure, they would take it back that way !)
4. Apology for not taking his calls
Bro don't you think you are asking too much for the deal?a piece of iron doesn not become old unless its rusted badly,rather than Viper spending 10-15k i would suggest you have a talk with viper exchange pics of the installation spend 1-2k more and get the header's corrected from the guy in your area whats the big deal in that,if you would have been a littlebit techie in this,you would be definately going GAGA over's Viper's FFE.

This is a highly precision job,and even a bolt-on kit need's to be looked and installed without forcing any screw's bolts.

Also there is no specific size for Expansion Chamber,its used to reduce the loudness from the FFE,you can even use the OE changer.

Peace
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