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Old 4th December 2009, 14:36   #151
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I would say close the thread. Why should the forum be used for negotiations. It has educated others enough.
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Old 4th December 2009, 15:58   #152
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Gogi I alwyas knew you had a few screws missing, but 4 whole valves?
I guess Valves is the first word that came to your mind from our era of amplifiers using them. What you meant was cylinders.

Yes sir, a whole lot of screws missing and four cylinders too that would make it a whole lot of missing valves per cylinder.
I guess that makes me a missing person


Vidiaji i know i said id keep out but one last piece of advice like a brother;

1) Get real or you wont get anything. Dont be so stuck up. Whatever is done is done and crying out more or dissecting this issue is not going to hurt anyone more than your own credibility. Please understand this. Stop using the forum as your tear kerchief. You wanted to write a report, now the whole thread has gone off topic.

2) Call Viper and sort things out between yourself, you dont need all or any of us as arbitrators. You know the maxim, too many cooks spoil the broth. Also the term Caveat Emptor does come into mind.

3) Decide between you and Viper as to what part of the loss each of you should bear and call it a day. Remember the loss is yours not Viper's, apart from his reputation but that is already taken a hit so he has nothing further to loose. People who know of him will still go to him contrary to what you and me or anyone says. He has already recieved his money so if you want something from him and if he is willing, then you will have to bend, thats how its going to be. Even after suppose he sends you another pair and that fits, how are you going to undo the proposed damage that you think to have done to his reputation already in guise of a product report? So think with a clear mind, whatever the loss will be, it will be yours in toto.

4). The end to all problems or at least most of them is a compromise, thats what you both will have to do and should do.

5). In the event you two come to an understanding, and Viper agrees to send you another set, request, yes request someone who is willing to go to Viper and supervise the install and make sure it is tested and fitted on a Corsa so that this episode is not repeated again. Please realise that leaks could have sprung up in transportation which could be the case again. Are you willing to pay for a high class courier for delivery? Everything cannot be cheap.

Mods may kindly decide what to do with this thread unless we want to play agony aunts/mediators, else may i suggest a change of title of the thread as the content is definitely not what it implies. This thread is way too out of topic.

I have nothing against you Vidia or pro Viper. If you guys had changed places, i would be saying the same things, albeit a bit more harshly to Viper, having known him.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:05   #153
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Hello, Just called VIPER and apologised for not taking his calls earlier .

I put forward this:

1. Kindly send me a new set of headers, with photo/video proof of installation and that there is no hinderance to AC PIPE

2. I will return the old headers.

Jignesh, does not want to do the above, instead demanded that I go back stock now, send him the problamtic piece and he will repair it, install it , take proof of the same and send it back.

As already mentioned Jignesh's proposal does not suit me as an affected customer because: (It suits him as a business man and not me as a customer)

1. I will have to bear the extra cost of removal/install/romval/install and courier( although a faulty piece was sent to me at the first instant)
2. I cannot go through the time frame ( making/dispatch) delay again and there would absolutely be no guarantee that it would fit my car . If it does not fit then I have to bear further costs.

Now, I have to summarize and will not post further.

I honestly feel, in a rush ( jignesh did tell me, it was done in a rush - Not that it was over looked. Jignesh just said it was done in a rush) a few things ( size of pipes, fitment, welding , bends ) were over looked. I am not pointing a finger at Jignesh as he did not do it personally. Although it was his responsibility to ensure that I receive a good piece especially when I spend so much !

I cannot go through further time delay, costs etc for no fault of mine. If the original peice was a perfect fit and did not have any leaks, or did not touch AC PIPE why would i go through all this.

Now, I back to public transport until I source a header locally.

I urge all probable clients of VIPER not to be put off by my experience. May be you should ensure that things which went wrong with my piece does no happen again. He is a nice lad. Very patiently spoke to me this time.

Mods: please close this thread. No more comments from me as myself and Jignesh are not able to resolve

Last edited by vdiatech : 4th December 2009 at 19:24.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:29   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Hello, Just called VIPER and apologised for not taking his calls earlier .

At least you made the first move that is great, lets not get into why you didnt take his calls etc, thats in the past.

Quote:
1. I will have to bear the extra cost of removal/install/romval/install and courier( although a faulty piece was sent to me at the first instant)
Quote:
2. I cannot go through the time frame ( making/dispatch) delay again and there would absolutely be no guarantee that it would fit my car . If it does not fit then I have to bear further costs.
Boss, whether he replaces your old header with set or not, you will still have to bear the cost of removing, refitting and transporting. If he was willing to share out even one ways transport cost (which is fair) you still would have to bear the removal and refitting cost of the headers so i wonder why the proposal does not suit you.

As regards making a new piece, im sure if he does so, he will get it made from the existing template and test it on another Corsa document it and send you and what if it still does not fit? Are you going to bear the cost again? there are many issues left unanswered but im glad you two got talking. I found from another FFE guy who says that the balance rod and the oil pump. No need to touch the a/c pipes.


Quote:
Now, I back to public transport until I source a header locally.

Why should you wait for another set of headers to be made? Revert back to stock till your headers are repaired and sent back. Surely you have the stock headers and silencers with you.
Also please correct me if im wrong i believe your present FFE system is now running fine (after the alterations made by your installer) so why not enjoy it and be happy??!! Wouldnt it be cheaper to bear the one way cost of sending the headers back and getting it repaired? Plain Math!! anyways its your money, at least it got you two talking. Maybe in a few days you both will agree to something to. Give it a rest, get in touch with him after a few days, let this episode rest and im sure it will work out. Cheers!!

I think this thread has lived its life!!

Last edited by V-16 : 4th December 2009 at 19:33. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:31   #155
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Bro i cannot understand one thing,its just a piece of iron,why can't your installer get the stuff installed properly???even if you cut thru a MS pipe it can be welded making no harm ,you bacically have to modd a littlebit here and there to fix the stuff properly and make it intact,in mod-jobs nothing come's precision plug & play,I have a friend of mine who own's a corsa,he also had to re-direct the ac piping.I would suggest rather than just posting all these stuff,read relevant forums to gain knowledge on how to install the header's properly,it could be that you might be lacking knowledge so your installer might have taken you for the ride???To be very frank one who builds the FFE he has the correct templates for the face to be fitted properly,but needs to flow your 4x2x1 comfortably,if not then it has to be modded to make its way.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:34   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Also please correct me if im wrong i believe your present FFE system is now running fine (after the alterations made by your installer)
Hi, This shows you have been 'selectively' following my thread yaar. I did mention that I am not using the car because it is touching the AC pipe . Use of car will result in hole in AC PIPE. The car is stationed/parked outside my house. Until I get a new set of headers. Now, removing, VIPERS, going back stock will cost me about 1K. now, If I wait a few weeks or a month, I can save enough to get a new header and directly fit that.

No point in wasting my money on just installations/removals. Some one who is on a budget will understand this
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:38   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
and make it intact,in mod-jobs nothing come's precision plug & play,I have a friend of mine who own's a corsa,he also had to re-direct the ac piping.I would suggest rather than just posting all these stuff,read relevant forums to gain knowledge on how to install the header's properly,it could be that you might be lacking knowledge so your installer might have taken you for the ride???To be very frank one who builds the FFE he has the correct templates for the face to be fitted properly,but needs to flow your 4x2x1 comfortably,if not then it has to be modded to make its way.
Hi, again, the installation was done fine. The entire header design is flawed. Nothing can be done at my end. If I could, I would have.

Flawed headers is my concern. so no use of me gaining knowledge or a suitable installer. The headers are just too big and resting on my AC PIPE. No room for the AC PIPE to be pushed behind.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:45   #158
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Ramie anna thats an old story, everyone knows that when making a FFE for a car it is always a custom job unless many FFEs for that model are in demand. Auto mech makes and keeps them in stock for certain cars. For any other car, say a Corsa in this case, the car has to be bought and the FFE made with it in place. It is not as if a ffe header of a swift will fit a Corsa. Even between Maruti cars, the FFe headers cannot be swapped. The flange should fit exactly on the place where the stock header was removed. This cannot be done without having a car in place. So a Corsa was got for the job is certain as eventually after cutting and re welding, the holes matched. The issue here is the leakage (for which Viper may be responsible for not checking thoroughly) and removal of the a/c pipe as that would mean recharging with gas, which will set you back by around Rs 900/- odd or whatever more it costs. This is the part Vidia's installer should have looked into. Maybe Vidia asked him to hurry, so the installer took the easy way out, maybe he was too lazy to disconnect the balance rod and the oil pump or maybe he was ignorant. It has to be one of these three. In this case Vidia is the victim again. First the header has sprung a leak (for which Viper apologised and offered to repair it) and then by his own installer who took him for a ride. Thats that. Upon that many jumped in, some pointing fingers to Vidia and some to Viper. I would say it is Viper's fault if he has not checked the leak and Vidia's fault for blindly believing his installer and letting him cut the piece to fi tit fast. Impatience is the cause.

Have fun both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Hi, This shows you have been 'selectively' following my thread yaar. I did mention that I am not using the car because it is touching the AC pipe . Use of car will result in hole in AC PIPE. The car is stationed/parked outside my house. Until I get a new set of headers. Now, removing, VIPERS, going back stock will cost me about 1K. now, If I wait a few weeks or a month, I can save enough to get a new header and directly fit that.

No point in wasting my money on just installations/removals. Some one who is on a budget will understand this
Buddy sorry no offence , i read from another members quote that your install was now fine so i presumed, my fault for not reading through. I have just seen the pics in the other thread and the a/c pipe does not look to be touching the header leave alone resting on it (maybe appears like that in the pic) but then get the opinion of your mechanic or a/c guy who will advice you better.

As i said, you will be better off sending the headers back to Viper to repair and im sure we can get him to bear one side of the courier cost. In that way you are in a win win situation, else you did say you were on a budget, you will have to pay for another new set up (14K right) thats a whole lot of money than a one way courier charge.

And by the looks of it (also asked another Corsa owner running an automech FFE) there is not much place in the engine bay to play around much, much as in the case of the Palio.

Last edited by V-16 : 4th December 2009 at 19:59. Reason: adding text.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:52   #159
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vdiatech: you plan to go stock nowand loose the 12-13k you paid for the FFE. Am i correct here. and will save money to get a new ffe from automech.
Case 1:
lets say you spend like 1000 rupees for courier one side.
so you send old headers, get new headers so thats Rs 2000 for transportation.
Jignesh repairs them for you. dont know if any cost is involved. he fits them on a corsa and gives you pictures assuring that it will fit. Jignesh sir i hope your offer here for refunding the money if headers do not fit as in your e-mail works here.
you pay installation of say 2k.
so you have a FFE'd corsa for like 4 grands.

Case 2:
You scrap this pair of headers. save money and go to automech.
pay them 16k.
installation remains the same. 2k
you are short 18 grand.

DUDE DO THE MATH AND FORGET ABOUT VIPER BEARING TRANSPORT COST.
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Old 4th December 2009, 20:45   #160
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Off topic, however relevant to this case.

This is the finest example of dispute resolutions I have ever seen, V-16's, Navin's, Rehaan's, Ford Rocam's and Scooby's efforts in making both parties to come to a conclusion and settling things down is one of the unparalleled examples of arbitrations seen by me.

I am sure most others will agree, as might be usual of Team bhpians, however this is a rare case of team spirit I have seen and it is of the highest order.

Keep up the spirit Team-bhp.
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Old 4th December 2009, 21:06   #161
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i guess now since this matter has reached to eternity, vdiatech should call viper once or vice versa.

1. vdiatech should post the snaps of the header here as well as mail viper, showing exactly the damage he has done by cutting and welding.

2. Viper should comment on the headers posted by vdiatech, whether he can get them repaired or altered. i guess they are just MS pipes. Viper knows better the material cost (not considering his profit here). if there is a easy route he can cut and reweld them at Afzals workshop. When done he should fit it on corsa and take snaps and post them here/mail vdiatech. he should ensure the quality and check for leaks. also this time he should show clear snaps as how to install on corsa. earlier even after knowing that fittment on corsa is a pain he dint bother to educate the customer. also he should have obviously informed that courier charges will be extra and also that headers wont have any paint/coat.

3. Vdiatech should send the headers to mumbai and viper should bear the cost.

4. When the headers are perfect/refurbished viper should charge Vdiatech for the damages he has made i.e extra material cost + labor (without profit) and send back the headers. this time courier charges should be paid by Vdiatech.

5. this time vdiatech has to be constantly in touch with viper while installing. he should learn the telephonic stuffs, they are quite useful. you should not hang up other person over mails that too when the situation is critical.

i guess the above solution will be less costly instead of going for a brand new FFE.
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Old 5th December 2009, 11:30   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i guess now since this matter has reached to eternity, vdiatech should call viper once or vice versa.
Hi, I have already spoken to VIPER and posted the details. Just scroll down a bit and you will see.

The bottom line is, If VIPER had sent me a truly bolt-on set like he claimed then I would have not had to go through all this. This is the source of all issues and you guys should acknowledge this also !

Its not the installation that has caused me all the issues, like my first paragraph of the first message I posted, its 'this particular piece' which was a bad quality and VIPER did agree that some of the leaks were a cause of what he called ( quoting him ) , ' in mumbai we call it kaccha weilding' .

Now guys, I got a faulty piece which has caused me all this. So why should I bear more expenses ? No body talks about the faulty piece I got , just on about me 'cutting' !

Anyways, I finally rest this thread and urge the mods to close it. I have nothing new to say. Its all in the messages below.

I thank, mask, akshay, v-16, scooby, navin , fordrocam etc for tryin to help me resolve. Thanks a lot guys.
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Old 5th December 2009, 11:45   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
I guess Valves is the first word that came to your mind from our era of amplifiers using them. What you meant was cylinders. .
Kya karun I am not an "engine-vengine" guy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Hi, I have already spoken to VIPER and posted the details. Just scroll down a bit and you will see.

Now guys, I got a faulty piece which has caused me all this. So why should I bear more expenses ?
I dont see why Viper would invest in a new set of hearders. What wold he do with the headers that you sent back? The Corsa is not a common car. Vipers proposal of you sending the product back to him and he making the requisite mods seems reasonable. If you dont want to use the car then you dont need to install the stock header/FFE back. Your car Your choice.

Vdiatech I dont think anyone is claimin that Viper's header/FFE fit like a Bolt on. However you should called Viper and followed his directions (modifying it locally under his instructions and with his consent or sending it back with instructions of the modficications required to make it fit). But lets forget about all this (it is easier for us to say this since we did not bear the loss or go through the trouble) and move forward.

Like akshaymahajan has posted below I too believe your most cost effective solution is to work with Viper. A more natural solution (albeit more expensive) would be to get it doen locally. Your car, your choice.

Thread Closed. Vdiatech if you want this thread opened to add anything or any new progress is made please PM me.
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