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Old 30th November 2009, 10:11   #31
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I suppose enough has already been said on this between the two threads on this experience. I would not rant on about who is right or wrong. Objectively, there are just a few points I would make (which have been said across posts already):

1. First and foremost - If the exhaust did not fit (as a bolt-on) at the first attempt, it should not have been tampered with. Remember the standard warranty terms with everything you buy?! (although it may not be directly applicable here because of the nature of the business).

2. All decisions regarding car modding should be taken only after looking at enough evidence (physically and otherwise) that a particular mod by a certain someone was well established and work without too many issues. We as customers need to make sure that our hard earned money will bear us fruits.

If it is an experiment (like in my case), terms of the experiment should be clearly agreed upon (like I did with Viper - if the exhaust was not satisfactory, car would be returned to stock and no charges would be paid. I was actually surprised that Viper agreed to this, but he was fairly confident about his skills).

3. As somebody mentioned a few posts ago - its just one's word against the other. So I believe it is unethical to expect monetary compensation by threatening to badmouth someone's reputation.

4. I realize Vdiatech's need of communicating though emails (to keep a record, and its both ways ), but we all understand the importance of verbal communication too! In fact, I know that Viper always tells his out of town customers to "call me, if there is a problem. Don't force anything."

Although the tuning scene in India is still unorganized and far from established (don't hammer me on this!), 'tuners' build their reputation over a period of time, with their skills, work and required customer support. Viper must have had a satisfied user base and hence he has some reputation in the market. It could not have been built overnight.

I am also a customer, and hence sympathize with Vdiatech's 'bad' experience. But I strongly believe that this was a one-off incident and would definitely have gone on as a success story if the points above had been followed.

Maybe there is still scope that Vdiatech's 'installer' can directly talk to Viper and work out the details of the fitment. Otherwise, if he feels that all options have been exhausted, he is of course free to choose his own path.
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Old 30th November 2009, 10:51   #32
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Rightly said by the_maassk, If the exhaust was not fitting at the first attempt, you should have not tampered with it, One phone call to Jignesh and you should have send the exhaust back.

Have you tried a different installer?? Happened in my case also when I had ordered my FFE from Viper, when I went to get my exhaust fitted, my installer told me the same things, the calculations are all wrong and this exhaust wont fit.

He told me that the header is fine but the down pipes are wrong, they are not for the SWIFT. I told him clearly to keep these pipes aside and fabricate your own. I was obviously fooled by this installer since I got those same pipes fitted in my friends swift and they fitted without cutting or modding anything, a straight bolt on fit.

And even after six months of usuage when my header developed a leak, I contacted Jignesh, and he promptly told me how to fix it, and if it did not hold up, sending the header back to mumbai and he will rectify the problem for the same.

There are good and bad experiences, Luckily I have had all good experiences with Mr Jignesh and Viper Performance hence this post in his favor, I hope your problem gets sorted out soon.
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Old 30th November 2009, 10:51   #33
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Members - since Viper is banned from the forums, he has requested that I post his reply to Vdiatech's posts. He has sent his response as an email to me and I am quoting it word for word (with some formatting) below:

---------Start Quote-----------

Hi Guys,

Since this has turned into a thread which has only one motive that is to spoil my reputation I feel it is imperative that the true facts are placed before all.

1> Vdiatech was informed of the delay in making and he could have chosen to ask for refund but he preferred waiting.

2> We do not run a transportation business and delay in delivery is beyond my scope of work. Still in all fairness it reached in 8 days via surface transport from date of dispatch which is not unreasonable by any standard.

3> If there was a product fitment issue he should have answered my calls and not installed the same. Would have given him option of sending another or refund. By making alterations to the product and then not answering calls is ridiculous.

4> I have made over 50 calls to him and some sms’s and even answered his email instantly. How can I be called unprofessional if he chooses not to speak with me. Have replied to 2 emails sent by him and insisted he speak to me to understand the exact problem and offer a solution.

5> Received 2 emails from him one on the 27th and one on the 28th threatening to write a bad review if I did not offer him a compensation and also that if I compensate him he would post a good review. Am copy pasting that sentence for all to see -

“I hope you have a heart and would compensate me in whatever way / amount you seem fit/worthy. I will only tell the tbhpians that your a kind fellow, good customer services and immediately fixed the issues (once you have compensated me in someway). I dont expect a reply, as you said you would not contact me futher and you have tried calling me enough. But i am just not a telephonic person and I communicate best through emails only ! I hope you will also understand that I will only give my honest feed back to guys who PM me if I am not compensated. “

“You can only understand, how many people will not do business with you after reading my feedback/review about yourself and Afzal , which is nothing but the truth.”

I can copy paste the entire contents of both his emails and my replies if need be. I Had already apologized the very same day he emailed me i.e. on the 18th and I am pasting my reply in part below.

“Kindly send me the pics. If there is a making fault I apologise.
I am sorry I could not meet your expectations. let me know what you would like from me and if possible will oblige.”


You guys can now decide for yourselves.

Viper

----------End Quote---------------

I see hints if a double standard; trying to leverage the forum membership for monetary compensation - totally uncalled for!
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Old 30th November 2009, 11:10   #34
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So basically someone tried to blackmail jiggy and it hasnt worked.

People who know cars DO NOT NEED a stupid review on teamBHP to know right from wrong!! As I said, a case of sour grapes. And I shall stick to my Statement come what May!!
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Old 30th November 2009, 11:22   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_maassk View Post
Members - since Viper is banned from the forums, he has requested that I post his reply to Vdiatech's posts. He has sent his response as an email to me and I am quoting it word for word (with some formatting) below:

---------Start Quote-----------

----------End Quote---------------

I see hints if a double standard; trying to leverage the forum membership for monetary compensation - totally uncalled for!
He seems to be interacting really professionally in this issue with his client. But one question remains. Why the tested headers didn't fit? An explanation to that also would make a lot of smoke disappear.
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Old 30th November 2009, 11:47   #36
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I have used VIPER headers on my santro and also on my friends cars. No problem as yet ...
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Old 30th November 2009, 11:55   #37
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Vdiatech,

So what is your POA now? Have you thought about what to do? Because there is no point going around blaming people and getting blamed too.

I suggest you try and go ahead with getting a replacement from VIPER but I don't know how far that's possible as the headers have been tampered with. You will surely not get a refund so this might be a colossal waste of money.

You should get in touch with VIPER and come to some sort of deal if you can with the help of some others on this forum (who're close to them) and get a replacement header.

Or shift to a completely different brand. Or get a new one fabricated by a tuner?
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Old 30th November 2009, 12:08   #38
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Vdiatech,

threatening VIPER to post a bad review if not compensated and a good review if compensated clearly shows how low is your ethics/values. This is my observation as a neutral party. Request you not to indulge in such practices in the future (On this forum or any other forum).
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Old 30th November 2009, 12:27   #39
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Speak to a member called adman77. Hes got headers for his corsa. He could possibly give you a solution.
As far as it goes i think your leaks have been sorted. Your only problem remains is that of your A/C routing. Which undoubtedly has to be changed. It'll cost you around 2k for routing and gas refill. OR if not remove the piping and then drive. Only problem is you wont have A/C. But that would be almost minimum damage to your pocket.

Last edited by danlalan : 30th November 2009 at 12:28.
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:10   #40
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Now, where is Vdiatech? VIPER seems to have handled it pretty professionally from the above email.

Any new part, even if it is a bolt on may cause some little installation issues and any competent mechanic should be able to address that.

My guess is that: The Mechanic, who tried fitting the exhaust has taken vdiatech for a ride as the headers was not done from his scope. This is a usual mechanic syndrome too!
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:20   #41
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From what i have seen so far both parties are at fault. Who is more at fault, i'm not sure!

What Viper (Jiggy) should have done :
1) TESTED the FULL exhaust on a Corsa. Since i don't think he had a template for a corsa exhaust before. (Would have also spotted the leak if this was done.)

2) Clearly mentioned that SHIPPING would be EXTRA. This was given as a "its always done this way" -- i disagree! As a businessman you should be mentioning all costs up-front. No suprises.

3) Should have mentioned a REALISTIC time-frame for shipping, instead of advertising x days as the reality.

4) Been more receptive to the possibility that the headers were infact not fitting. (Also, from the pics the workmanship in general seemed poor.) Though in Viper's defence, hard to do without telephonic communication!

5) Offer to replace the exhaust. Though this very well could have been part of Viper's offered solution, had vdiatech followed it up correctly.


Vdiatech should have :
1) Don't do things in a hurry - it will just cause more trouble in the long run.

2) Picked up the phone and called viper to discuss the specifics of the problem! Some things simply cannot be explained over email -- especially if the other party repeatedly asks to speak with you on the phone / calls you repeatedly.
(In your defence, you might have wanted to leave a paper-trail, that could be considered smart, but sometimes in doing so you end up shooting yourself in the foot).

3) You can't CUT & weld another suppliers exhaust, without their permission, and then expect a replacement or monetary compensation after that.

4) Shouldn't assume that the headers are coated, just because other (more expensive) fabricators offer it.

5) And lastly, the wording of your emails to Viper sounds a lot like leveraging Team-BHP for your own selfish gains. Something that the Support Team will be looking into.


In the end, it seems viper's last communication with you said :
"I am sorry I could not meet your expectations. let me know what you would like from me and if possible will oblige."

At which point you played the card of give me monetary compensation or i'll write you a bad review.

A very bad move in my opinion.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 30th November 2009 at 13:29.
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:47   #42
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I dont know who is wrong and who is right. Maybe Viper is right. Maybe the customer is right.

But what I am very happy about is the fact that Team-BHP is helping customer service improve, something that is almost absent in India. Absent in all fields of businesses, not just cars.
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:51   #43
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BTW, i had bought a few stuff from Viper and SO far never faced any issues as such.

And also got a FFE for my Swift from Viper a long time back, and as far as i remember it was ceramic coated, like the Automech ones. I did not use it on my car too much as it was VERY loud, not something i wanted. But besides that, there was no fitment issue or anything as such.

@vdiatech
Talking would have been the best and easiest way to sort things out. If you wanted to keep a record of everything, i hope you know that calls can be recorded.
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:54   #44
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+1 to Rehaan's post with the additions below:

Vdiatech should also have known that any after market fitment can always have issues of exact fitting. Sometimes even genuine parts don't fit straight away!

Viper should also have informed Vdiatech of what all is required further to make the car fully operational e.g. heat cladding, shifting of ac pipes etc. Viper should also not advertise the product as a bolt-on if it requires any modifications to the vehicle.

That said, Vdiatech's blackamailing tactics are inexcusable and should be seriously dealt with by the support team.

By the way was this deal made on the basis of a t-bhp ad (sorry but this was not clear to me from the post)?

CDM
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:59   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
So basically someone tried to blackmail jiggy and it hasnt worked.
I sincerly hope this is not true. Using TBHP's reputation as fair and honest forum for "blackmail" is just not right or fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
1) TESTED the FULL exhaust on a Corsa.
2) Clearly mentioned that SHIPPING would be EXTRA.
3) Should have mentioned a REALISTIC time-frame for shipping
Agreed. I believe Viper/Jignesh still needs to "coperatize" his business. Fledgling enterpreneurs will often have such loose ends un-attended. If you are working with a small enterpreneur you should be aware of this - I do a lot of DIY (in audio) and usually arrange for packing, shipping and handling myself or give very detailed instructions (how to pack, which shippers/agents to use, and how to fill the invoice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
4) Been more receptive to the possibility that the headers were infact not fitting.
5) Offer to replace the exhaust.

Vdiatech should have :
1) Don't do things in a hurry
2) Picked up the phone and called viper
To create a paper trail of the conversation the conversation could have been minuted and emailed.
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