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Old 1st December 2009, 11:30   #76
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@vdiatech - dont repeat again and again the same stuffs. as a customer you have your point very much valid. dont break your heads on explaining people who dont want to understand what exactly happened and what you went through as a customer who paid full 11.5 k in advance then waited for 22 long days and then paid the courier charges too and then paid more to get the stuff inside your car too.
i just pity people who boldly say that you blackmailed someone. dont worry man. lets things sort out. if not take it as a lesson of your life. the lost money in this transaction which taught you a good lesson will fetch more money in your life time. take this as a training amount as if you joined some course
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Old 1st December 2009, 11:43   #77
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@vdiatech

Two Options.

Option 1 : Get your refund. (Pointless in my opinion since Headers are perfect after fixing leaks.)

Option 2 : Discharge gas, RE-ROUTE A/C pipes. Refill gas. Any other issues ask Adman 77 or other corsa FFE users.


Viper..??

Last edited by danlalan : 1st December 2009 at 11:56.
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Old 1st December 2009, 11:45   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
. take this as a training amount as if you joined some course
I am sure it will be very difficult to convince his home ministry about this expensive course.
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Old 1st December 2009, 11:55   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
I swear, I did not blackmail anyone.
So, my intent was not black mail, or damage his reputation.
Fair enough. It is just that the words you chose did give many of us that impression.

If you really want to resolve this I think you need to talk to Viper. I assume he is ready to help you resolve this in an amicable manner. It does not do either of you any good by washing your dirty laundry on a public forum.
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Old 1st December 2009, 11:56   #80
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just got an email from viper and this is what he wants to say -

Quote:
Hi,

I’ve just about had enough with Vdiatech’s ranting which is one sided. If any of you go thru the emails carefully you will realise my point of view. I am not here to prove him wrong but when someone makes accusations which are incorrect then it needs to be clarified or backed up. Facts are as under.

1>Exhaust picked up and taken to installer on the 17th evening and taken to installer. Get a call saying problem in installation. I say will call back in 5mins as was in a meeting. Got back to him in 15 mins but he did not answer my calls(3-4). Received sms approx 45mins to a hour later saying they have figured out what to do with some alterations. Again try calling him to find out what happened later but no answer.

2>Get a Email at 6.54pm which is self explanatory. Again tried calling him umpteen times including sending my sms’s mentioning that no solution can be arrived at if he ignores my calls.

3>Reply next morning at 9.07 am which is also there for all to see.

4>Receive another Email at 10.30to which I replied at 11.30 i.e in a hour as I wanted to speak with Afzal and discuss the issue. Again make calls which are not answered. Receive another email at 5.35 pm with one pic only showing a leak and nothing else. Called him at least 20 times thereafter but still no answer.

5>Receive a 4th email at 9.27pm laying down conditions if I wanted to speak with him. This pissed me off and I told him clearly that if he did not answer my calls I would end all communication with him. He still chose not to.
Now my point is

a.If there was a problem why did he install the header. He could have simply reinstalled the OE setup and continued using his car. Why did he have to cause himself “mental agony and huge financial losses” by installing a product that was not fitting.

b.Was it not his duty to pick up the phone and complain to me or make me speak with the installer or explain the exact problem or provide me pics of all the issues so I could understand the issue correctly and offer him a solution.

c.Am I supposed to entertain threats from a customer or bow down to his terms without knowing the exact facts.

d.Why should I take back or refund him after he has damaged/cut the headers without my permission.

e.The plug wires cannot melt due to radiant heat and a coating is not really going to help in that scenario.

f.I had already apologised at 11.20am in the morning itself and also asked him what he expects.


Inspite of all this he then threatens me of blackmail which is ridiculous. Am shocked that you guys are actually supporting him when he is totally out of line. None of this so called misery would have happened if he spoke to me and explained the situation. I am known for my customer service and have given free replacements to several people in the event of a fitting/product fault then why does he have to be negative.

Last but not the least if someone has the time and inclination I can make another header call for my friends bone stock car again and install it in front of them to show that it fits without issues. Pics can be taken to prove that.

As far as Paul Barber goes he got a replacement around the 30th of July following which he has not had the decency to mention that or return the old set to me.
Viper

PS- This will be my absolute last communication regarding Vdiatech

Last edited by GTO : 1st December 2009 at 14:50. Reason: Removing offensive word
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Old 1st December 2009, 12:09   #81
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Quote:

As far as Paul Barber goes he got a replacement around the 30th of July following which he has not had the decency to mention that or return the old set to me.
He's not logged into TBHP since September! That's why his thread is totally dead.

The problem in this case seems to be vdiatech's impatience. After anyway waiting 22 days, a few more minutes wouldnt have killed him. That is the base of all problems andh his total refusal to pick up Viper's calls.

I can understand his viewpoint that there shouldnt have been faults in the workmanship in the first place, but his response to such problems is also wrong.

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 1st December 2009 at 12:12.
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Old 1st December 2009, 12:21   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
just got an email from viper and this is what he wants to say -
Viper, I assume you can read this.

Chill. Both you and Vdiatech need to resolve this matter without getting agitated.

Vidatech,
a) if there was a problem you should have atleast taken Viper's consent to cut / modify what he sent you. If you cut/modified without Viper's consent, Viper has no obligation to take the product back.
b) looking forward, Vdiatech still needs a FFE. My advise to you would be (since you have already paid Viper) is that you work out some amicable solution to this with Viper. I dont see how any of you will gain anything by getting upset about this. Focus on getting a new FFE instead. The FFE you have is of no use to you in it's current state. If you can detail what you expect from Viper maybe Viper can help you. You need to talk to Viper it is your best option.

Viper,
If you have photos of the Corsa install you shoud email the same to Vdiatech so he has evidence that the FFE was tested and how also directions of how to install it.

Maybe (I wont give you business advice here) Vdiatech could send the FFE back to you and you could sell him a new FFE at some reasonable discount (work that you between the two of you).

Viper can you not modify the FFE/header that has been damaged by Viatech's installer and show pics detilaig directions on how to install this.

Last edited by navin : 1st December 2009 at 12:46.
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Old 1st December 2009, 14:57   #83
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Some tips for those looking at buying free flow exhausts:

1. Know the BEST providers in your city itself. As per my reply to vdiatech (from the other thread), I find it amusing that someone from the South would source an exhaust from Mumbai (it's like me travelling to Delhi to eat vada-pav ). The South has the BEST after-market support. Period.

2. Buy the product & installation service from the same person. That way, there is no finger pointing. Here, there are 4 parties at play. The car owner, the part supplier, the transportation company and the actual installer. If things go wrong, no one will claim responsibility. Again, ALWAYS buy the entire package from the same shop itself.

3. ALWAYS visit a specialist. Or someone who has in-house experience in exhausts. As an example, I am exceedingly happy with Automech and the job they performed on my Vtec. Not a bolt gone loose in 2.5 years of high-revving, not once has the car needed to revisit Automech for a single problem.
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Old 1st December 2009, 15:23   #84
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One more tip for out of towner's. Please save up an additional money to pay for a bombay trip to get the installation complete onsite in your presence.

I can say I am one more happy Automech customer,

Cheers!
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Old 1st December 2009, 16:14   #85
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one thing i can say about the Afzals exhaust is that they are good . ive been running it for quite a while now.if ever i even had a doubt about a leak,Afzal would check it for me.ive never had a leak in the past two years.even when my friends have had leaks or anything of that sort he would offer to do it for free.
if this is the case why would jignesh ever have a problem in doing the same.
i feel jignesh would gladly do the needful.

im not taking sides here as ive been through the same with another dealer here in mumbai.
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Old 1st December 2009, 17:14   #86
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while i dont want to get into the debate of who is right and who is wrong because most of the facts are here and each one can make their own judgement, i just want to share my experience with regards to getting an FFE for my OHC 3yrs back
and im sharing this purely because a lot of people are taking this view that SOUTH is the PLACE TO get these things done etc etc

i fully agree on that part, but when i was in the market for an FFE ( with very little knowledge of what these things are !! ) i just went through the forum and got automech and Viper's name.
i checked both their websites. wrote email to both of them
viper clearly mentioned that i have to get installation done through someone locally in Chennai - which swung the deal to automech because they have dealer tie up who does the installation.

went to their dealer, made part payment . the entire set , i think came in a week to 10 days. all the while , i think it was Vivek from automech who was in touch over emails and once the stuff came, his dealer in Chennai got it installed.

after a week there was some vibration issue and took it back to the dealer. they noticed that one of the bushings for mounting the silencer had given away. promptly a new bushing was placed. i paid for it. and since then things have been going pretty well...

so bottom line - its quite ok to buy from outside your state as long as you have someone arranged by the supplier to do the install. again i feel because mine was an OHC, the FFE must have been tried and tested for donkeys years and hence possibly there was no installation related issues also
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Old 1st December 2009, 18:07   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
.....being a DIY enthusiast, I know a few things too.
Hi Narayan,

What DIY experiments and mods have you tried?

You seemed to have made some very critical errors.

1) Getting an FFE from out of town.....hell we are in CHENNAI (Motorcity/Detroit of INDIA)

2) Do further modification of the Viper FFE to make it fit. (DIY or not what makes you think he will take it back after you cut it up, and now you cannot prove that the mistake was from viper's end, no one will believe it.)

Regards,

Arka

PS - Its better to know or not to know at all, this knowing a few things screws everything up.
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Old 1st December 2009, 19:38   #88
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I had a nice experience with Viper in installing a FFE on my GTX. I just gave him a call and took my car to Mumbai from Pune. After clearing all my doubts in person, I gave the nod and the work was completed by 11 in the night. Took the car and returned back to Pune. Except for a loose nut in the header(which was tightened by a local mechanic) I haven't had any problems for a year now(touch wood). The problem here in my opinion is the parcel thing, should have taken the car to Mumbai or should have bought the kit from Chennai.
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Old 1st December 2009, 20:17   #89
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Vdiatech, personally i feel you should tone down....a lot, both, in your posts about a product and the person who has fabricated/supplied/stocked it. Starting a product review and then going full on about the person who supplied it is not in my opinion in any way related to a product review.

I will address some points which you have raised and will attempt to analyse them, at all times, at the risk of being branded a "Mouthpiece" in your terms, if it is not agreeable to you. Please all, this is a neutral post as i have got a lot of work done by Viper and have nee satisfied always. That does not mean he is right here too. What i read is what i know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Hello, my long pending review of the VIPER Performance FFE for my Opel Corsa.
My friend, take a good look at your thread. When giving a review about a product, good or bad, stick to that. Without, saying whether your experience was right or wrong, you seem to easily cross the thin line between a product review and character assassination of the supplier/manufacturere/stockist. Refrain from such posts please and kindly preserve the sanctity of the thread and more importantly the forum.

Quote:
I deffered posting the review, hoping to get a slight refund of atleast 2-3K for the issues I faced and ending the review stating that a slight refund was given. But I have been ignored totally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Hi Samurai, well if JIGNESH would make good for the money I spent in excess ( for the faulty workmanship) and Stress I went through and the sub-standard headers then I would most certainly speak to him.
Quote:
Also, After showing it to two fabricators in Chennai, it is of their opinion that the making costs of these were under 7K. Iam not debating the price, I agreed to a price and I am not moaning about the profit they made. Just that, they could have given me a slight refund.
From your above posts it is certain you are sore about a product you received and want nothing less than monetary compensation for it. Please read the above underlined text. That is your main peeve. You want compensation only in form of money. Most products have a money back guarantee, that is, if you dont tamper with them. That goes for a regular car too. Try putting in after market headers in your car and if something goes wrong with anything unrelated, your warranty is void. Im sure you are aware of that.

Let us imagine you go to Levi's and get a ready made pair of jeans. Upon coming home you realise they do not fit you so instead of asking Levi's to replace/alter/change them, being the impatient soul you have yourself agreed to being, ask a tailor to fit it right. Now its gone worse, so you trot to Levi's and ask them to change your Jeans or refund your money back. I dont think Levi's is going to oblige. In fact they ought not to.

Going by the same principle (now someone please dont get into... "Jeans and cars are not the same thing", the situation is similar.


Basically you are cheezed off that you are not being compensated with money, thats what i can gather from your posts. The product you received, was substandard according to you, well you have not helped in proving it.
Dissecting it, cutting and re welding etc etc is not what you should have done. How are you so sure that the leaks were not initiated at this point?



Quote:
The only reason I did not speak to him then ( as in email ) is because he would not admit a few things and I am not someone to argue
So you think now hes admitting it? What you have done by insisting on express communication is, opened your cards in front of everyone.

You agree he called you so many times, you admit you didnt answer him, so who is at fault?

Im not protecting the FFE, not saying it was good, nor bad but there are rules to follow and a decorum of doing things, you have broken them and cannot expect to be compensated for goods spoilt by you.




Quote:
Now, I dont have the will to go back stock to use my car Its too much of an exercise.
I am saving up for automech headers. Local tuners dont want to do just the headers.
Why dont they want to do that?

South India is IMHO the Mecca of Mods. Most tuners, fabricators etc whom i really respect are from that part.

I will not comment on what quote you received from your city viz a viz what you got from Viper Performance, as thats their problem and your problem but later commenting that it must have cost X amount shows the pettiness of the person. Not only was he irritated that you got a better deal, he probably also wanted to justify his high price.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
I swear, I did not blackmail anyone.

Thats when I had to tell him that I will post my review that will only spoil his reputation ( and that I did not have to lie, just posting my experience would do ! ) I was hoping that atleast then he would take notice of my concern. Even now, I have not slagged him off, I have only posted my experience !

SO you are saying that you would not say anything (or say good things) about his product if he compensates you monetorily else you spoil his reputation, right?

Blackmail is a harsh word, agreed but it certainly seems like you are giving him the option of spilling the beans if he does not comply to your demands. What can we call this then.....???....... Extortion, Coercion, Pressurise, Victimize, what would you word it as? Sorry buddy no amount of frustration can make your above statement sound civilized



Quote:
Kindly PM me your email ID's and I will forward you all the emails. I dont need to justify to his friends, mouth pieces. anybody Neutral, i will forward to. !
And who is going to decide who is neutral? I dont think anyone is bothered with the exchange of emails between you and Viper. You say you have already emailed the mods, copies of the conversation, so let the mods decide. In the meanwhile stay and see what happens.
What we are concerned here as members is that you have chosen the forum to further your intentions, not a good idea.



Quote:
I rest my case here I cant deal with replying to his friends, mouth pices. If Jiggy wants , let him email me himself ! I will reply toa nybody thats neutral and does not have a closed mind !
Please rest your case. After saying that you have been constantly posting regarding the same issue. Leave it and try to be more circumspect in the future. Because the mods and most people here have an open mind, that this topic is being discussed here. Let the discussion be graceful. You cant force anyone to pay up.




Quote:
I am not dumb enough to beleive some installer blindly, being a DIY enthusiast, I know a few things too
Quote:
I am sure, no calculation involved. Just bending pipes so the headers would sit in engine bay. In my case, even that went wrong!
Being a "DIY guy" yourself as you claim, why didnt you bend the so called pipes yourself Mr. DIY.

Your DIY knowledge is questionable as if you are do DIY savvy you should have known the problems that would have to be faced and would not be reliant on the diagnosis, whether right or wrong, of someone in your city. Then You choose to behave defiant and not take calls. IMHO if you would have taken the call, there is a chance Viper could have explained to you or your installer on how to go about it. But no. Then how can you blame the product or the person. Presuming even,that the product was faulty, why did you butcher it?


Quote:
also please note that like i claimed in my review, a lot of issues were noticed only post installation and my cost went up. I went ahead with the installation because it was a simple 2 minute job . Its the leak, heat, ac pipe issues.
Nothing is a two minute job my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
points 3 and 4
3, oil filter , balance rod removed
4, this was the bend that would have prevented the pipes from going under the sump. The FFE from Viper has over 4 bends and I think this was the most crucial bend !

Quote:
also please note that like i claimed in my review, a lot of issues were noticed only post installation and my cost went up. I went ahead with the installation because it was a simple 2 minute job . Its the leak, heat, ac pipe issues.
People who tell me, I should have sent it back, waited etc. Guys , it took 22 days for the faulty FFE. now how much more time to wait for a replacement !
You should have known the issues since you claim to not trust your installer blindly being a DIY guy yourself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
posted them on automech vs viper FFE thread and also sent to viper himself !
most certainly the installer here is not taking me for a ride. I have known him from his bro days . and I was there for over 3 hours. again, its not just the fitment...the leaks...ac pipes...
[/u][/b].
Is there a chance your installer bungled up and conveniently blamed the product? Maybe he was trying to teach you a lesson for not buying from him? He should have left it alone the moment he realised the fit was not correct. The leaks could have been the result of his tampering and butchering the product. Moreover he can not pass the buck to another person for the a/c pipe and gas leakage.
Any idiot would know that since its not a bolt on fit, these things will occur. How is it that the product caused the a/c leaks. Did header attach itself or did someone actually try to push the headers past the pipes, eventually causing them to crack or develop the leak. The a/c leak is caused by your trusted guy who didn't bother what damage he caused. The product was not from him so??!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Narayan,

What DIY experiments and mods have you tried?

You seemed to have made some very critical errors.

1) Getting an FFE from out of town.....hell we are in CHENNAI (Motorcity/Detroit of INDIA)

2) Do further modification of the Viper FFE to make it fit. (DIY or not what makes you think he will take it back after you cut it up, and now you cannot prove that the mistake was from viper's end, no one will believe it.)

Regards,

Arka

PS - Its better to know or not to know at all, this knowing a few things screws everything up.
Beautifully put Arka. Couldn't have worded it better myself.



Its your fault majorly. Im not saying that the product was good. It is a possibility that the headers were not sized up but then messing with the product and refusing to answer calls from the supplier who is ready to probably replace or correct?

IMHO, you have handled this very badly and have no one to blame but yourself, least of all the product or Viper.

As many have advised you, your only option of resolving this is by calling Viper and speaking to him, not threatening him or in any other way but making him see your viewpoint, I dont se this being resolved otherwise, definately not by your threatening attitude.

Last edited by V-16 : 1st December 2009 at 20:32.
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Old 1st December 2009, 21:14   #90
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Hey, one important point - Making a Headers is not just bending the pipes the way we want it - There are calculations for the primary length secondary length etc and what we want out of it - low end, mid, or high end.

If the lengths are messed up, the headers will not function as it is supposed to!
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