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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:03   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
oh did i mean you ? sorry if you thought so ! really my sincere apology here mask
I didn't assume it was me you were referring to! I never used the word 'me' in my post. However, now that you wrote what is quoted here, I believe you are being offensively sarcastic.

Godspeed...
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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:09   #122
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Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
Does asking in email not count ?
Not to speak of medium of communication but the manner of communication . i.e. befitting two mature individuals.

To expand it further it should have been a resolution between the both of you,
again, taking the last step first has brought this on you, where had Viper not responded positively to you on a replacement or a mutually acceptable resolution, you could have posted it on team bhp. You actually took the worst step first and now are being told by almost everyone to take the first step as a measure of closing the dispute.

Off topic. - If the first bullet from across the border "prompts" us to fire nuclear missiles across the border, how peaceful the remaining world would be ?

Edit : Have spoken to Viper, he has never said that he will not communicate with you. You going on and on on the forum about how this is turning out for you and him is not liked by more people than the affected. (you and Viper). He has stated this categorically and in agreement to NAvin's resolution and as Navin has posted earlier.

Additionally, IF YOU WANT THIS ISSUE RESOLVED, Viper is in agreement with the terms suggested by Navin and is available at this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post1609693 (Bad experience with VIPER FFE - Free Flow Exhaust)

Think and let us know.

Last edited by mmmjgm : 2nd December 2009 at 17:28.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:22   #123
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While all of you talk about the later reasons.
Why in the first place was there a delay and why did vdiatech get a exhaust system that did not fit ?
I still sympathize with vdiatech and still feel he deserves a replacement.

I know you people might think he cut the header and all that but i know how excited i was when i got my exhaust system.

I still strongly feel its not vdiatech's mistake.

Dont care about what other people say , this arouse because viper sent a fualty exhaust system.


And using unparlimentary
words through akshay is not the way to solve it.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:52   #124
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Dear all - just for information, which I can see that everybody has missed completely. Any part which is manufactured without drawing and / or layout as a single piece (as all these parts are), tend to precipitate into such situations. Exhaust systems by nature are like snakes and even with access to gridlines, 3D layouts, detailed assembly and child part drawings, CNC manufacturing setups, specialized welding processes, fixtures and inspection reports, many iterations are required even in a production work environment before these things settle down. So I am not surprised. I would rather expect it this way only. We used to get FFEs from Govindji (Apex exhaust systems, Worli, Mumbai) for our Fiats and the damn things never ever fitted without a fight. Every damn car was different. Even the guys working on Chip Foose's overhaulin' do the whole thing from start to finish on that particular car!

I believe that my above remark explains the whole thing in totality. I can go into details of parts, sub-parts, processes, bill of materials etc and prove it eitherways, but it will achieve nothing.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 2nd December 2009, 17:57   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjunrudra View Post

I still sympathize with vdiatech and still feel he deserves a replacement.

I know you people might think he cut the header and all that but i know how excited i was when i got my exhaust system.

I still strongly feel its not vdiatech's mistake.

Dont care about what other people say , this arouse because viper sent a fualty exhaust system.


And using unparlimentary
words through akshay is not the way to solve it.
Question here is Arjun,

1) Vdiatech deserves a replacement, yes he does.
2) Did he ask for it ? No
3) Did he give an opportunity for Viper to make it up to him, never, infact condoned his way of doing business and now wants to make him look like a cheat.
Again, if money is exchanged, - as Vdiatech states in his mail and his own confessions on this thread, things can be suitably reversed.

Last but not the least, please help in locating the "unparliamentary" language in Akshay's post, was not wearing my reading glasses, can't seem to locate it.

Cheers
M

Last edited by Rehaan : 4th December 2009 at 03:32.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:00   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
Edit : Have spoken to Viper, he has never said that he will not communicate with you. You going on and on on the forum about how this is turning out for you and him is not liked by more people than the affected. (you and Viper). He has stated this categorically and in agreement to NAvin's resolution and as Navin has posted earlier.

Additionally, IF YOU WANT THIS ISSUE RESOLVED, Viper is in agreement with the terms suggested by Navin and is available at this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post1609693 (Bad experience with VIPER FFE - Free Flow Exhaust)

Think and let us know.
Well In his final email he has told me that he will not communicate (in an email, that was in response to me inisting that i wanted only email communication and he insisted on talking to me. He has also said that in a post through AKSHAY.

That being said, I am really glad that he is open to negotiation now.
I clicked on the link above and what I read is a bit confusing. Could you kindly copy paste again what the terms were or PM me.?

Also, you should appreciate that I have never personally attacked VIPER, past compliants or his business model or gains claims or his reputation as a tuner. I did try to settle it through emails and when that did not help for many a days, I only posted on the forum MY EXPERIENCE.

I am really hoping like scooby said, to shake VIPER's hands and clear the air. if he feels an apology is due from me for the way I have handled things, I will respect it and do so when things are settled.

Many thanks for your kind help.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:01   #127
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Behram, what you say is true. but it also means that there is no such thing as a BOLT-ON FFE; only a best approximation.

Maruthi, it is high time you had a RECORDED TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION with Viper. that is the only way you will break this vicious cycle. a recorded talk is as good as an email. a lot of people on this thread have suggested that you talk to Viper. me and somebody else went further and asked you to record the conversation. so far, I dont see you heeding that advice. unless you do so, you will run the risk of repeating yourself ad nauseam and further alienating yourself from everybody who is reading this.

Last edited by blacmagic : 2nd December 2009 at 18:06.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:02   #128
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Dude,

I am cut pasting the whole thing for you incase you can't get it, its on the previous page.

Viper, I assume you can read this.

Chill. Both you and Vdiatech need to resolve this matter without getting agitated.

Vidatech,
a) if there was a problem you should have atleast taken Viper's consent to cut / modify what he sent you. If you cut/modified without Viper's consent, Viper has no obligation to take the product back.
b) looking forward, Vdiatech still needs a FFE. My advise to you would be (since you have already paid Viper) is that you work out some amicable solution to this with Viper. I dont see how any of you will gain anything by getting upset about this. Focus on getting a new FFE instead. The FFE you have is of no use to you in it's current state. If you can detail what you expect from Viper maybe Viper can help you. You need to talk to Viper it is your best option.

Viper,
If you have photos of the Corsa install you shoud email the same to Vdiatech so he has evidence that the FFE was tested and how also directions of how to install it.

Maybe (I wont give you business advice here) Vdiatech could send the FFE back to you and you could sell him a new FFE at some reasonable discount (work that you between the two of you).

Viper can you not modify the FFE/header that has been damaged by Viatech's installer and show pics detilaig directions on how to install this.


The above was posted by Navin.

Edit you can call him, it is best to pick up the phone, get your grievances out of the way and arrive at the solution as described by Navin. Do not expect him to call you, if in case you find the need to apologize, please do, it is expected and appropriate.

Best of luck. Do this right this time

Last edited by mmmjgm : 2nd December 2009 at 18:20.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:08   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post


Last but not the least, please help in locating the "unparliamentary" language in Akshay's post, was not wearing my reading glasses, can't seem to locate it.

Cheers
M
Hello M,

Please scroll down to some of my posts. I have clearly mentioned that I had it reported and removed due to VIPER's choice of words.

May be you need to wear glasses and actually read my posts ( sorry pal. just joking to what you said !)

Also, you guys dont seem to understand that I am somebody who is literally broke ! Even if I had spare 2K, dont you think I would have got FFE from the IGNITE GARAGE in chennai for 14 K which would have been completely fitted, tested ad delivered !
I have mentioned this also , many a times in my messages on this thread! so, another point that you should read my messages properly before condemning me pal !

It is unfair to ask me to pay for 1. my situation and 2. for product i received 3. There is no damage to headers. The headers was cut where AFZAL had welded two pipes and the same place welded back. So no damage because of my installer!

Thanks again for mediating.

Last edited by Rehaan : 4th December 2009 at 03:29. Reason: Information in first line corrected.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:34   #130
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Come on Viper if you are reading this, just sort it out. You have a reputation to live upto.

@ vdiatech - I undertand what you are going through buddy, but **** happens, just let it go, talk to him I am sure you guys can work it out.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:39   #131
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vdiatech. What if Viper refuses to refund the money since you have changed what was sent to you?
I sympathize with you. But you need to move on either by talking and arriving at a solution or by forgetting it.
I dont think anyone can deliver a verdict and make you two abide by it. Its a good lesson to everyone I guess wherein a bolt-on does not literally mean so and tread with caution in India.
I dont believe when people say, no two cars are alike. They are built by engineers not tuners.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:50   #132
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Guys, I am leaving for Bangalore tonight. So If I dont post/reply promptly please dont whack me . I am there till 6th and back on 7th morning.

Ofcourse when I am free and have access to interne and I will look into this thread.

Meanwhile if VIPER calls me and we reach a resolution (my terms (inability to pay) mentioned in the messages below), I will be the happiest guy and will apologise whole heartedly if he honestly feels there is a necessity. I again maintain, I only quoted my experience and intention was not to fire a NUCLEAR MISSILE as some one quoted it ! If I have to call VIPER then it will be on 7th only !

I dont mind an e-resoultion as well ! It does not have to wait till 7th then

I have come forward many a steps ( always wanted resolution in my emails and messages here) , VIPERS turn now..

Thank You

Last edited by vdiatech : 2nd December 2009 at 18:53.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 19:05   #133
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Hi All,
Went thru this thread.
While I agree that without getting concurrence from Viper, vdiatech should not have let his installer make any changes(even if only minor change was required). This has really put vdiatech's case on very weak grounds.

However for all other prospective buyers of FFE kits (may be from locations other than Mumbai), people would think twice before ordering from Viper because:
1) Ability to deliver on committed time
2) That kits from Viper may not be 'bolt on' and may need some work ( hence do not consider Viper if you are not from Mumbai)
3) Some confusion regarding who will pay delivery charge ( also if kit does not work and has to be shipped back, who will bear the cost)

So, for this particular instance, vdiatech may suffer, but overall Viper's name has taken a hit.

My two cents.

With regards,

JLS
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Old 2nd December 2009, 20:15   #134
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guys, I am signing off now, travel ahead. Too late to edit my previous post.
I should have added that I dont need the entire exhaust . Just the headers, that would fit and SIT IN properly, without affecting any pipe AC PIPE work with evidence that it sat in well without affecting AC PIPE.

Also , it would be great if someone could post me an image of what the expansion chamber should look like, I saw different pics on automech website and they looked different. What I asked VIPER was for an expansion chamber and what I got was something that looks almost identical to stock centre section. ( I am not complaining against viper, just double checking if I got the right one ).

So, if the expansion chamber what I received is right, then I need only headers.
If the EC is not the right one then I need headers and EC ! ( in both cases, no delivery charge to me , I have to now pay the installer to fit these !)

On my part, I will send back the headers ( and the EC ) through the same courier guys 'to be paid by the receiver'

@JLS , like I previously quoted to another prospective buyer, its best not to condemn VIPERS FFE for your future purchase, but just concentrate on the points that affected me. Thats all !

I am sure, some day, I will also be a happy VIPER customer and will vouch for his FFE and Customer Service !
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Old 2nd December 2009, 20:42   #135
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This just might be the stupidest thread I've ever read on TBHP. My opinions and emotions at this point (Sat and read all 9 long, dreadful pages):

1) Let's be honest and get this out the way, the Indian after-market modifications scene is nothing like the mass market retail examples being given. This is an after market FFE, not a pair of jeans, not anything else! So stop with the analogies, as they simply don't apply!

2) One has to be increasingly careful when dealing with offshore or interstate orders. Quality and fit and finish has to be a grade above standard.

3) A professional will never give a specific date, but will give a time frame. But a delay of 22 days in unacceptable when the promised time is 1/3 that!

4) I see nothing wrong if minor work has to be done on an aftermarket product to make it fit, but frankly no such work should be required in the first place. However no major modifications should be made to said product, and definitely cutting and re welding is a major modification.

5) Is there any written warranty notice or claim form that comes with such a product? For those who've likened it to jeans, Nokia cell phones etc!

6) I think it's a stupid move on vdiatech's part to have ordered this FFE setup from Mumbai if he didn't have the money to ship it back in exactly such a case. I buy a ton of electronics from abroad (save upto 50%), and know that I have to ship them bearing the costs to have them serviced under warranty! My laptop is on it's way back from the US having been sent for servicing 2 months back, my TV is in Singapore being serviced (Darn power fluctuations!) I bear the to-fro shipping charges!

7) Why on earth would you ignore someone for so long and then expect something from them?

8) Why is vdiatech asking for a refund? Wouldn't a replacement suffice? That should be the way to go.

9) vdiatech I request you to contact Viper via the phone. You can request him to commit to the solution via e-mail, but real-time communication is the best in such cases. If you feel it necessary, record the communication.


Bottomline for anyone wanting to modify their car anywhere in India:

1) This is not an official industry! (Except maybe Cosworth)

2) Warranties and replacements are what normally take place, not refunds! And none of these warranties are written on paper, they are given by the tuner to protect their reputation.

3) NEVER get into a project without having cash to spare in case of problems. We've seen this time and time again. With any modification, the price that is estimated is never right, it's either lower or higher, so leave room for the unanticipated stuff!

4) In case you experience any problem the first person you should call is your tuner/vendor so they may direct you on how to solve it, as they are the manufacturer/dealer and therefore have more knowledge about their product than anyone else!

Cheers
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