Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th November 2009, 19:05   #1
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default Bad experience with VIPER FFE - Free Flow Exhaust

Hello, my long pending review of the VIPER Performance FFE for my Opel Corsa. As most of you are aware I have had a bad experience, and I am only posting this review as a lot of fellow tbhpians have PM'd me requesting for a detailed review. My review is no way a personal attack on Jignesh or his credibility as a tuner, it is purely on this particular piece of FFE I received from the VIPER stables. When things went wrong, Jignesh did try and call me to try and explain. Things were going so bad for me, an explanation would have not helped. After my phone call to Jignesh at the time of installation, I have not answered his calls as I told him, I prefer email communications. He was adamant on Telephonic and I was adamant on emails as I could retain it for my records ( VIPER must have guessed so, hence did not want to communicate through emails). Well, atleast, he did apologise for the bad workmanship in one sentence. But it has upset me a lot and cost me a bomb and left my car un-motorable.

My desire for FFE:
I drive an Opel Corsa, ever since, I started bowsing the tbhp site as a Guest, I have been longing to have a FFE. My search for a FFE began March 2009. My corsa engine was sweet, but very sluggish. Eliminating the clogged CAT-CON improved the performance a lot. So, I beleived
a complete FFE would do more good for my car. I was not dreaming to be a racer, just that I wanted rid my car off the sluggishness. I contacted all the tunersin Chennai, Bangalore for a quote etc. The difference btween the quotes would range from 2-6K ! This baffled me. I am hard strapped for
cash and I had to save up for nearly 7 months to be able to afford this FFE
hence, the heavy monetary loss for me now !)

Why I chose VIPER:
I read some good feedbacks about the FFE's fabricated by VIPER. I contacted Jignesh for a quote and the price was fixed. This was the cheapest quote I received. 11.5K it was and Viper promised
delivery in a week which sounded very good.

The transaction:
I paid VIPER 11.5K through ICICI-ICICI instant transfer on 26th October. VIPER confirmed the payment and assured that he would start the work straight away.

The Delay:
I emailed VIPER 3 days later to enquire for an update on the progress. He called me straight back and said that the headers were ready and he was waiting for a friends car so he can fabricate the rest of the parts. He asked me to wait for a further week. Did I have any other option but to oblige? so I agreed. Lot of contradictions arose, which I will discuss at the end of the review.
The delivery was messed around as well and I they played ping-pong with me, I will not get into who was lying, the courier company ( pretend employee spoke to me or genuine I do not know ??!!) or VIPER. Neverthless, I got a call on 16th Nov saying the FFE had arrived and would be delivered same day. That did not happen. SO next day I called up and offered to pick it up myself, which they obliged. There was a slight confusion regarding the pay as I presumed VIPER quoted incl delivery as this was not discussed and VIPER did not tell me that payment was to be made EXTRA.

The Installation:
I took it to a exhaust fabricator/installer in Chennai ( name withdrawn on request, PM'd the MOD's the info). This guy is famous in South Chennai and does exhaust work for a lot of A.S.S , BOSCH Service, and couple of
tuners in Chennai. So he knows exhausts well. The headers would just not fit. I called Jignesh, who said he would call back in 5 mins. This did not happen for over 15 minutes and we could not wait further. My installer had already removed the oil filter and balance rod (Jignesh later claimed that the headers would fit in if they had been removed, by point was they were already!) So my installer cut the headers at a point mid way through ( point where 4 converges into 2 ) and later on welded it.
The AC piping behind the radiator would not allow the fitment of the headers. There was too much gap in the 4*2 set up. So, the piping was loosend ( at the cost of losing gas and re-gassing), nudged a bit. The headers then did fit in,but they touch the AC Pipe now.
The FFE was designed in such a way that the exhaust pipes would come underneath the oil sump, touching them. This was unacceptably close to the ground and dangerous.

These were the fitments issues I faced

Post Installation:
The installation was done. The car was started and we heard some strange hissing noise. On Close inspection we found out two leaks at the start of the headers (pics posted on thead Automech Vs VIPER). This was a spot
not touched by my installer and so we ere not responsible for it. They were right at the spot where the pipes start from the cylinder head. These were later tocuhed up by my installer and leaks arrested The headers did not come with heat coating. This was not discussed nor mentioned. I presumed by default that like many responsible tuners ( for eg automech ) a protective coating would be given. On starting the car, the heat was intense. Very very hot I must say. In a corsa, the plug wires are relatively closer to the headers. This heat was making my plug wires sticky.
Also, my induction filter was sucking in very hot air . The engine bay was not this hot with the stock headers.

Current Situation:
My Car is unmotorable, because it is touching the AC ROD ( bigger gaps in header pipes , being the reason) and use of car will only make holes in both the pipes. Immense heat is making my plug wires sticky and I am worried about the effects of the same Total expense 17K ( incluing 11.5K to VIPER), irony is 17K is what ELECTRA, Chennai wanted to design and FIT !!

My View of the Whole things:
VIPER's claim that he first fabricated the headers and a few days later the rest of the system were designed is contradictory as he claimed later in an email that the entire system was done in one day. So, in one day design,
fabrication, installtion to test. So it is only obvious that a few things were over looked in a hurry. This, if it was actually tested or throughly installed on a car before delivery.

If it was tested then they would have faced the same fitment issues ( incl ac-gas/pipe), oil sump etc.The headers would not have sait in the bay without brushing against other components. So his statement that it was tested in a car is hard to beleive.

If it was indeed tested on a car then the leaks would have been easily noted. Pics show that ( have posted on other thread and emailed Jignesh too) the leaks were manufacturing defect, bad workmanship!

I am not complaining about the 22 days taken when only one week delivery was promised. This is not acceptable from a customers point although he had his reasons. Also delivery costs. ( jignesh later said delivery always extra, but this was not mentioned !!)

I did discuss these with Jignesh initially, he rubbished them off. I had been through a lot and spent a lot. The last thing I wanted was to hear that everything was ok repeatedly without any remorse from Jignesh ,when it wasnt ! So i decided not to take his calls and only email.

I deffered posting the review, hoping to get a slight refund of atleast 2-3K for the issues I faced and ending the review stating that a slight refund was given. But I have been ignored totally.

Now, I am out of pocket, my car un-motorable.

My advise to others,
Stay away from out of town orders. If things go wrong, then removing, sending it back, waiting, fitting new one is just headache. Get things fabricated and installed by the same person. So you test everything before final payment is made.

I will not comment on how good of a tuner VIPER personally is or Afzal for that matter. I am sure, no calculation involved. Just bending pipes so the headers would sit in engine bay. In my case, even that went wrong !

Also, After showing it to two fabricators in Chennai, it is of their opinion that the making costs of these were under 7K. Iam not debating the price, I agreed to a price and I am not moaning about the profit they made. Just that, they could have given me a slight refund.

Now, I dont have the will to go back stock to use my car Its too much of an exercise.
I am saving up for automech headers. Local tuners dont want to do just the headers.
vdiatech is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th November 2009, 19:27   #2
BHPian
 
Zen2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 239
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

That truly must be a nightmare; to end up with disaster after (as I'm sure we all do) doing so much of research, finding the "right" answers, then finding someone to translate the same in practice...and above all, blowing a hole in your pocket!

If these FFE's were road legal (I don't know the technicalities of this issue), why don't they come factory fitted on select top end variants? After market modifications always come with the risk of not just "not doing their job" but also potential damage to other components, thus adding to the "cost" and in some cases seriously compromising safety.
Zen2001 is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 19:28   #3
BHPian
 
james's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mangalore
Posts: 552
Thanked: 469 Times
Default

Vdiatech, This is really sad! I can imagine how you must be feeling after all this.
I second your point about dealing with out of town tuners. Its best to get them to fix the part on the vehicle before making payment!
I Hope you get a re-designed ffe free of cost or for a good discount as i doubt he'll give you a refund!
Im happy you came out with your experience and i hope it gets sorted out asap unlike my case where the chap has given excuses and disappeared again!
james is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 19:43   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
Gilead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,140
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Vdiatech, that was a lousy experience for you. By unmotoroble, did you mean it's literally unmotoroable until you can get the Automech done? Like you said, it's best to stay away from out of town tuners unless the product is a simple bolt on.
Gilead is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 19:53   #5
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
Vdiatech, that was a lousy experience for you. By unmotoroble, did you mean it's literally unmotoroable until you can get the Automech done? Like you said, it's best to stay away from out of town tuners unless the product is a simple bolt on.
Thanks
what I meant is the headers designed by VIPER ( read it as Afzal ) touch a few components in the car including the AC pipings. So, If I use the car then there is chances of the piping getting damaged and me having to pay for the pipes and re-gassing again.

When we fit the headers, the installer thought, he could nudge the ac pipe further, but sadly, it was pushed to the max and still touches the AC pipes.

I cant afford to spend anything more to remove, go stock or replace ac piping if holes developed. Hence, I am not using it and calling it UnMotorable. If I did not look into these and blindly installed and used them then VIPER headers would have caused damage to my car. So, I suppose, I am justified in calling it un-motorable

Ps. Also VIPER did assure me that it would be a Bolt-ON, hence my order with him

Last edited by vdiatech : 29th November 2009 at 19:56.
vdiatech is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 20:01   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
karthik247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR, HYD
Posts: 2,708
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Why don't you switch back to the stock headers if the current ones are bad for the car?? And since stock stuff are just bolt on, i don't understand why you say it'll cost more money.
karthik247 is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 20:08   #7
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik247 View Post
Why don't you switch back to the stock headers if the current ones are bad for the car?? And since stock stuff are just bolt on, i don't understand why you say it'll cost more money.
I will have to pay atleast 1k now to remove this and install stock and at a later day pay for installation of automech headers.

Also, it was not a straight bolt on fit, like I mentioned, the down pipe goes right under the oil sump touching it. So the whole exhaust system must be switched back, not just the headers.

I cant afford to keep paying for these installs/removals and also save for automech. I propose to get the new headers and ask my fabricator, to have a slight bend at the down pipe so, the oil sump is not affected and the exhaust sits nicely in the place it is supposed to under the car !
vdiatech is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 20:18   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,993
Thanked: 857 Times
Default

Its indeed a bad experience, another member paulbarber had a similar issue with his getz. The headers would just not fit, he also took it to a lot of people but to no avail. Viper used to do a lot of his business on tbhp, now that he is banned he cannot solicit members through PMs but he can still get unsuspecting members buy his stuff. I am really sad to hear this experiance. My lancer stock exhaust gave away, even i was looking forward to buy an exhaust from him. The quote was 11k. My finances were little skewed at that time.

I think we members should do something to these non customer friendly people like, the way my friends did to a computer shop in my hometown. One of my friend brought a cd drive from a shop, and it would not close. The dude refused to replace it saying some crap. We couple of friends decided to take even on him, we used to go to his shop and take a quote for the most advanced system, which would be in the tune of 70-80K, then we used to ask him about warranty and then we used to tell him that we heard about a guy who brought a cd drive, naturally this guy used to narrate his story and we used to just walk away from his shop. when 5-6 people did that to him, he understood the bad publicity he was getting and trust me it works, the cd drive was replaced ultimately, but the dude kept on saying he did it from his pocket, but who cares. Its time some bhpians in Bombay should start doing that, thats why we are a team right?

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 29th November 2009 at 20:27.
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 22:03   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
Akshay1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,762
Thanked: 6,670 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Its indeed a bad experience, another member paulbarber had a similar issue with his getz. The headers would just not fit, he also took it to a lot of people but to no avail.
paulbarber was sent a new ffe.
Akshay1234 is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 22:32   #10
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,753
Thanked: 7,478 Times
Default

OT: But how difficult is to find a competent mech who can make an aftermarket header, exhaust system in your own city? Will save alot of heartburn.

My 2 cents.
Jaggu is online now  
Old 29th November 2009, 22:35   #11
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
OT: But how difficult is to find a competent mech who can make an aftermarket header, exhaust system in your own city? Will save alot of heartburn.

My 2 cents.
Hi, Like my post said, budget was a deciding factor for me. The lowest quote I got in Chennai was 13.5K and the highest was 17K.

So, VIPERs 11.5K was a sweet deal for someone like me who walks on a thin string and longing for a FFE for over 7 months
vdiatech is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 22:36   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
karthik247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR, HYD
Posts: 2,708
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
I will have to pay atleast 1k now to remove this and install stock and at a later day pay for installation of automech headers.

I cant afford to keep paying for these installs/removals and also save for automech.
It makes sense to spend 1k and switch back to stock rather then having to mod everything else to make the new headers fit and take a chance with it.
karthik247 is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 22:37   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,582
Thanked: 823 Times
Default

I think the problem is in being totally unprofessional (most of these so called 'tuners', the term itself is more art than science). That includes the interaction, delivery times and lack of responsibility. No wonder it also shows up in the products.
srishiva is offline  
Old 29th November 2009, 23:05   #14
BANNED
 
motophsyco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bangalore
Posts: 23
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Firstly, Viper is NOT a tuner.

Secondly, the best headers in the country are made in Coimbatore & Bangalore. Why would anyone who wants the real deal go to mass marketers like Viper or Automech? Beats my logic.

And most tuners, do give you JUST THE HEADER if you want to. Those who refuse, are only trying to scam you into buying the whole thing.

Why don't you just go to Electra and ask them to replace your headers instead of going to Automech again?

Also, I don't think Viper is missing out on anything written here. We have akshay1234 keeping his eyes and ears wide open to update Viper about the latest details and also put forth Vipers side of the story here .
motophsyco is offline  
Old 30th November 2009, 00:22   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,412
Thanked: 1,542 Times
Default

^^
automech are not marketers. they are manufacturers. they have also been oem suppliers long ago. the are not middle persons who get them manufactured from somewhere else. they have their own factory for manufacturing the FFEs and they are very professional people with best knowledge of what they do.
they are in this business for donkeys years. i can vouch for this as i have a very good experience in buying a ffe from them and so are my tons of friends in pune.

a complete FFE gives better results with the headers, expansion and the endcan in sync and tuned to perfection. not necessary this is a scam.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 30th November 2009 at 00:23.
amit_mechengg is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's a free flow exhaust ? adityapd Technical Stuff 138 7th October 2013 18:01
free flow exhaust muffler for ohc club_honda Modifications & Accessories 23 14th June 2005 04:10
Free flow exhaust tuner in Pune chetanhanda Modifications & Accessories 5 5th May 2005 16:10
free flow exhaust sanket12 Modifications & Accessories 4 29th June 2004 20:09
K&N Filter and Free flow exhaust gbharani Modifications & Accessories 2 19th April 2004 23:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks