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Old 3rd March 2010, 14:29   #16
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Slight change of plans,

Instead of taking the pains,risk for 4G63T evo half cut engine import, will be using the 4G94 as the base engine and do it up.Already found someone who makes DOHC conversion kits for this engine.
Go forged internals with a standalone.Also checked, the F5M41 gearbox can be used with this engine.
This will save me a lot of trouble,money,time etc.
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Old 13th March 2010, 16:56   #17
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Now that this project is slowly but steadily moving ahead, I thought, why not do a bit of searching for a good VFM suspension upgrade.
Since this isnt going to be a track car, I dont think it makes sense to go for coilovers. All I need is little bit lowering and slightly stiffened suspension and a more robust setup that can handle the increased power compared to stock.

So while searching, I stumbled upon this,

KYB AGX

What I liked about it is that you can adjust the damping externally using that knob. So assuming I buy stiffer,lowering springs from say Eibach or H&R, then I can play around with different damping values so that the damping values of the shocks and springs match and doesnt make the car ride weirdly.

What do you guys think ?

From whatever I have searched around, for Coilovers, I found that a few brands have coilovers for the CK lancer. Few of them being, D2,Megan Racing,BC Racing,Kido etc.

Neither did I find anything from reputed names like, H&R,Bilstein,Koni etc.

So instead of going for these cheaper alternatives, doesnt it make sense to go for reputed shocks and springs ?

Correct me if I am wrong, this is just my opinion based on whatever hunting I have been doing.
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Old 13th March 2010, 20:41   #18
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First of all, disclaimer:
Suspension tuning is not like engine tuning. You get it slightly wrong and something like a lift off oversteer will spit you off the road. And with 150~200BHP planned, spinning out at 3-digit speeds is VERY dangerous.

Ok, coming to the topic:

1. These adjustable dampers are good enough for the street and spirited driving.

2. Get springs from a company which is reputed for good R&D on the rates. Eibach, H&R, etc.

3. Dont forget strut tower braces. With stiffened suspension and more power, the chassis will now flex more and needs strong bracing.

4. Regarding suspension tuning, set to a tiny bit of understeer.
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Old 17th March 2010, 15:31   #19
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Update:

1st baby step taken yesterday, engine finally bought,

Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010093.jpg

Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010103.jpg

Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010105.jpg

Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010106.jpg

Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010108.jpg

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Engine swap/Performance mods in Lancer-17032010110.jpg

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Old 17th March 2010, 16:53   #20
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Great! Nice to see the progress, will be following this thread closely!

Regarding the suspension, you could consider Pedders also. I am using Pedders Heavy Duty coil springs with Comfort Gas shocks. Love them. Car handling, steering response is top notch, car corners as if on rails

You could definitely give these a thought. I think Farhaan (Sideways) uses Pedders on his MIVEC Lancer too.

I'm sure you have plans to upgrade the brakes - this is a must with a more powerful engine. What else are you changing?
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Old 17th March 2010, 16:59   #21
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What engine is that and how much did you pay for that? Please PM me if you cannot discuss in public.

Pramod
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Old 17th March 2010, 17:32   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
What engine is that
From an earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
will be using the 4G94 as the base engine and do it up.
4G94 is the 2.0L Cedia engine.

@Amey: With the DOHC conversion, how much of power are you expecting to add on?
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Old 17th March 2010, 18:41   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077 View Post
From an earlier post:

4G94 is the 2.0L Cedia engine.

@Amey: With the DOHC conversion, how much of power are you expecting to add on?
Stock lancer petrol produces 87BHP and a DOHC conversion can put in the range of 130 + BHP gains

Stock Cedia motor produces 115 BHP a DOHC conversion would put atleast 150 BHP with a FFE and a CAI and some porting and polishig you can go upto 160BHP in the naturally aspirated form. Add a turbo you are looking at a 200+ BHP range.

@Amey i would like to know if the gb sourced is the stock petrol lancer GB. I am going to be hooked to this thread. Also you mentioned about some one making the DOHC conversion kits. Can you pass on some more details?

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 17th March 2010 at 18:42.
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Old 17th March 2010, 20:39   #24
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Good stuff. Engine swap with an indian engine that can run on regular fuel and locally available parts. How cool is that.

From 60odd diesel bhp's to 120odd petrol bhp's. Way to go.

This will be an awesome upgrade to other lancers and will actually work out cost friendly as well.

All the best dude. Will keep visiting the thread from now on.
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Old 17th March 2010, 21:36   #25
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Quote:
I'm sure you have plans to upgrade the brakes - this is a must with a more powerful engine. What else are you changing?
I will be upgrading the brakes, I have something in mind which wont cost me an arm and a leg but let me figure it out perfectly.Then I will share all the details.

Quote:
Regarding the suspension, you could consider Pedders also. I am using Pedders Heavy Duty coil springs with Comfort Gas shocks. Love them. Car handling, steering response is top notch, car corners as if on rails

You could definitely give these a thought. I think Farhaan (Sideways) uses Pedders on his MIVEC Lancer too.
Will consider this but for now what I have decided is that I will first buy Koni yellows and use them with stock springs and see how the combo works, if I am happy, then stick to it or else go with Eibach or H&R springs. but that will happen later if needed.

Quote:
What engine is that and how much did you pay for that? Please PM me if you cannot discuss in public.
Pramod, this is Mitsubishi 4G94 SOHC 16V engine used in Cedia in India.

Quote:
@Amey: With the DOHC conversion, how much of power are you expecting to add on?
expected power gain is ~ 26WHP so I am guessing around 150 Hp at crank. Just a guess.

Quote:
Stock lancer petrol produces 87BHP and a DOHC conversion can put in the range of 130 + BHP gains
I doubt that, the 4G15 doesnt have too much in it,atleast thats what I feel. I would say 100-110 bhp is acceptable.

Quote:
Stock Cedia motor produces 115 BHP a DOHC conversion would put atleast 150 BHP with a FFE and a CAI and some porting and polishig you can go upto 160BHP in the naturally aspirated form. Add a turbo you are looking at a 200+ BHP range.
Pretty much correct figures there. Depends on what turbo you go for and what boost you run will determine how much power you make

Quote:
@Amey i would like to know if the gb sourced is the stock petrol lancer GB. I am going to be hooked to this thread. Also you mentioned about some one making the DOHC conversion kits. Can you pass on some more details?
I am using the stock diesel lancer GB since its bolt on. Its F5M41 GB and interesting the Cedia,Diesel lancer,petrol lancer all share same gear ratio for the 1st and 2nd gear and I think reverse too, the 3rd,4th and final drive ratios are different. For now the current ratios wont cause a problem to get the car running, after all the engine mods, I will think over it as to what to do about the final drive ratio.

Also I think I am going to drop the DOHC idea. There are multiple reasons for this,which were brought to my notice by fellow bhpians Moralfibre,Shrivz,Vikram18,vivek

1) The DOHC conversion needs a different timing belt which wont be available here so sourcing that later on could be a problem.
2) Other small small crucial parts would also be non available locally so that could again create problems.

So now the idea is to stay SOHC, go forged internals (Pistons+conrods because these 2 are the weaklinks of this engine, the block and crank are bullet proof)
so once the weak spots are fixed, this engine is capable of taking almost upto 30 psi boost.Although I have no intenions of running such crazy boost, even if I stay at 1bar I am well within safety limits and still making the car bloody quick.
So this way I maintain originality of the engine so I get all replacement parts locally since other than pistons and conrods I am nothing doing anything to the engine.

Btw,
to keep things in perspective,
just a small comparison of Kerb weight,

Lancer Petrol 1.5 - 1010 Kg
Lancer Diesel 2.0 - 1095 Kg
Cedia - 1225 Kg

The diesel lancer has cast iron block and aluminium head and so does the cedia engine so lets say that the engine weight remains same for both engines then there is ~150-200kg difference in the body thanks to safety equipments like ABS and all and overall body weight ?
so isnt it like 150kg weight reduction there itself ?
now when we are calculating power to weight ratio, a weight reduction of 150kg is a lot, isnt it ?
So that logically means that even in stock form the cedia engine in lancer would make the frankenstein car quicker ? what do you guys think ?
And then ofcourse the advantage is carried forward when I go turbo.Hehe
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Old 17th March 2010, 21:43   #26
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I would also drop the DOHC idea. First do the swap and make it reliable. Since the engine's open get a port polish job done as well.

Everything should work after the swap and reliably. Then take it to Mumbai for a Dyno run.

After that try a RD ECU and see how much that bumps it.

Turbo should be on your mind after a year of reliability dude. Just enjoy the swap first till you get bored.
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
The diesel lancer has cast iron block and aluminium head and so does the cedia engine so lets say that the engine weight remains same for both engines then there is ~150-200kg difference in the body thanks to safety equipments like ABS and all and overall body weight ?
so isnt it like 150kg weight reduction there itself ?
now when we are calculating power to weight ratio, a weight reduction of 150kg is a lot, isnt it ?
So that logically means that even in stock form the cedia engine in lancer would make the frankenstein car quicker ? what do you guys think ?
And then ofcourse the advantage is carried forward when I go turbo.Hehe

Your logic is nice, but those figures are not at the wheels , Those are at the tap. No indian car maker tells you how much BHP you would get at the wheels. Yes weight reduction and a bigger enigne will definitly make it a fast car, but defination of fast is entirely yours.

Please pass on the info about DOHC conversion. About the belts, you always have compatible parts available. The head is bolt on, if there are any problems you can anyways revert back to stock. The only know issue so far with the DOEC conversion is fueling, installing an FPR would take care of that as well.

Pramod
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:38   #28
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Pramod, I am aware that these figures are of power generated at crank and not at the wheels.My simple point was, due to weight reduction the power to weight ratio will improve for the better irrespective of what power is made at crank or at wheels.
Same engine, different bodies....get my point ?
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:39   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Your logic is nice, but those figures are not at the wheels , Those are at the tap. No indian car maker tells you how much BHP you would get at the wheels. Yes weight reduction and a bigger enigne will definitly make it a fast car, but defination of fast is entirely yours.
Simply put, Amey is trying to say that a 115 bhp @ crank engine on a 1225 kg car v/s a 115 bhp @ crank on a 1095 kg car is going to feel different.

Quote:
About the belts, you always have compatible parts available. The head is bolt on, if there are any problems you can anyways "revert back" to stock. The only know issue so far with the DOEC conversion is fueling, installing an FPR would take care of that as well.
Pramod
Dude, you say "revert back" as if it is as easy to do as it is to bolt on the DOHC head. The cost of converting the engine to DOHC is quite substantial and at the same time consumes some time and effort. This doesn't include the hassles of importing all required parts from vendors overseas and dealing with customs. Even if it is as easy to "Bolt on" as you think it is, there are hassles involved in setting up the timing right with the appropriate tools and sometimes engine specific tools that are required which may need to be imported separately. Of course there are compatible parts everywhere but are they as reliable? A compatible timing belt surely cannot be found off the shelf in India for the DOHC 4G.. engine here. Even if it is compatible, it might come with compromises here and there. A timing belt is not the only component that we were thinking about, who takes care of bringing down the bearings, tensioners, etc? So "revert back" is not an option, if we do it, we do it right or else we don't. Most likely the dollop of returns offered by a DOHC conversion doesn't quite justify the pain that you have to go through in terms of reliability.

Amey,

Check the following links for interesting products (I am sure you must have seen most so far ):

http://www.roadracemotorsports.com/s..._red_im_01.jpg (You could get this done on the existing one)

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...itsubishi.html

http://www.roadracemotorsports.com/s...products_id=14

Last edited by moralfibre : 18th March 2010 at 09:55.
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Old 18th March 2010, 10:17   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
Pramod, I am aware that these figures are of power generated at crank and not at the wheels.My simple point was, due to weight reduction the power to weight ratio will improve for the better irrespective of what power is made at crank or at wheels.
Same engine, different bodies....get my point ?
I know what your saying, Probably i should not have posted earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Dude, you say "revert back" as if it is as easy to do as it is to bolt on the DOHC head. The cost of converting the engine to DOHC is quite substantial and at the same time consumes some time and effort. This doesn't include the hassles of importing all required parts from vendors overseas and dealing with customs. Even if it is as easy to "Bolt on" as you think it is, there are hassles involved in setting up the timing right with the appropriate tools and sometimes engine specific tools that are required which may need to be imported separately. Of course there are compatible parts everywhere but are they as reliable? A compatible timing belt surely cannot be found off the shelf in India for the DOHC 4G.. engine here. Even if it is compatible, it might come with compromises here and there. A timing belt is not the only component that we were thinking about, who takes care of bringing down the bearings, tensioners, etc? So "revert back" is not an option, if we do it, we do it right or else we don't. Most likely the dollop of returns offered by a DOHC conversion doesn't quite justify the pain that you have to go through in terms of reliability.
Have you noticed a lot of swift GTI DOHC heads are available for sale these days? Do you think people just import it and keep it and then one day they decide oh this is not what i want so let me put this one uop for sale. I have done enough reserch to go the DOHC way, Couple of my friends are looking out for parts abroad. I am right now looking at the cheapest option of sourcing the head alon from UK or Dubai, There are more expensive routes of directly importing a JDM head but that involves cost. Today all the parts are available on the internet. So no hassels getting them. I Said you can always revert back simply because if everthing else fails you can always go back stock and put the item on sale somewhere. By compatible parts i didnt mean jugad, i ment proper compatible items to specs.

I and you both know such a feat would not be handled by a road side mech so people who you take it to will have equipment to correct the timing etc. No mod is reliable and bullet proof. if you have a FFE on your car you would know what i mean, You would have to get it welded every year at least if not more. A K&N requires cleaning on time else might cause more damage.

My intention is not to hijack a thread however learn and understand the options available for modding a car, I never thought of a cedia engine in a lancer, even though the engine is available in plenty. Anyways I am glued to this thread.

Regarding the Pain involved, you will feel the pain after the swap when you try getting your car insured. Or while explaining the cops about the swap. The DOHC is the best way to improve performance of the 8 valve SOHC engine. Its like the best foundation you can build for future mods.


Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 18th March 2010 at 10:19.
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