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Old 3rd April 2010, 17:20   #31
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Originally Posted by vikram18 View Post
The only way to go faster without spending much is to strip your car down. That's it. Again, "faster" is an approximation and will eventually depend on the car you start with. If you want to couple "faster" with "reliable", please be prepared to shell out the big bucks.

@ Cyrus - If I were to replace the cam on my Civic with high-lift, what do you think will happen to the lower end? As it is the Civic comes into its own only after 3500 rpm
Last time I heard, nobody makes cams for the R18 engine which is present in the Civic. Only a stock cam from Accord/CRV's R20 motor will fit, but I don't think (apologies if I'm wrong) the respective cars being sold here have those engines under the hood. Though the R20 cam + a remap/piggyback/standalone should do you well, it's not feasible/cost-effective unless you're doing other things with the motor, at which point the whole thing about it being cheap goes out of the window.
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Old 3rd April 2010, 19:31   #32
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Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Are you serious ? All of your mentioned Stage 1 mods may not take more than 40K-45K.

Even a second hand turbo install will be 50K upwards, unless...your DIY includes design & development of the Turbo itself
<50K for turbo and parts and fabrication, all new(and made in india!). Labour costs not included. A carb turbo would cost much less(but would involve more work to get running right - not for the faint hearted!)

And yes, I'm serious.

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 3rd April 2010 at 19:38.
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Old 3rd April 2010, 20:09   #33
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Apt video for the thread. LoL

Some of the results were interesting.







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Last edited by Shan2nu : 3rd April 2010 at 20:11.
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Old 4th April 2010, 13:30   #34
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Originally Posted by vikram18 View Post
If I were to replace the cam on my Civic with high-lift, what do you think will happen to the lower end? As it is the Civic comes into its own only after 3500 rpm
What happens to the lower end when changing the cam depends entirely on the cam characteristics.

Different profiles determine different torque characteristics.

I take it that your engine has got vvt (I am not too familiar with the Indian engine specs.). To improve the low end problem, a torquey cam is needed (but such cams are limited to 8,000 rpm at best, before tailing off.and intake revisions help as do exhaust modifications, but they need to be calculated.
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Old 4th April 2010, 17:36   #35
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I take it that your engine has got vvt (I am not too familiar with the Indian engine specs.). To improve the low end problem, a torquey cam is needed (but such cams are limited to 8,000 rpm at best, before tailing off.and intake revisions help as do exhaust modifications, but they need to be calculated.
Well the Indian Civic has an i-vtec engine which varies the timing, lift and duration of the valve.

Technical Overview of Honda's new R18 i-VTEC Implementation

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Old 5th April 2010, 10:20   #36
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I have a few points of my own to add here:

1) Buy a good car (powerful) instead of puttering around blowing money of small engines and trying to push them way past their league
2) Easiest tip to pick the right car is based on power/weight and more power towards the later end of the rev range the better
3) I cant say much of lightening daily drives as one asks for most of the comfort one needs, but carbon fibre is surely going to make your pocket lighter
4) Easiest and the dirtiest secret to make more power more compression but remember people have overdone it many a time themselves and have been left with blown engines
5) Next most effective mod has been nitrous but read the points above for after effects once again
6) Cams next but go beyond 265 deg and you will need a proper aftermarket ecu to allow you to get the actual power out of the engine
7) TC's : Remember the old saying powerful and reliable is not cheap(rocams signature) Yes you could scrounge and build a turbo kit for 50k but how long would you assume that this would last?

@CPH: GBP7000 translates to about Rs.4,78,279.39 as of today not 50K

@techn0l0gist & @Mi10: The most basic addon required, the ECU is no where in the estimation???

@vikram18: The 06+ Civic Si comes with the r18 and try these links for more info:

CorSport Online Store: Honda - 06+ Civic Si - bprostg1
CorSport Online Store: Honda - 06+ Civic Si - BC0040
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:18   #37
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Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
@vikram18: The 06+ Civic Si comes with the r18 and try these links for more info:

CorSport Online Store: Honda - 06+ Civic Si - bprostg1
CorSport Online Store: Honda - 06+ Civic Si - BC0040
That links to an 06+ Civic Si with a DOHC K series engine, not the SOHC R18.
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:44   #38
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
That links to an 06+ Civic Si with a DOHC K series engine, not the SOHC R18.
Thanks for pointing that out, my error.
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:58   #39
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I think on a tight budget, it would be best to keep the engine internals stock and just mod the parts around it like filter, intake manifold, headers, FFE, lightened flywheel, short ratio final drive, lighter wheels, lowered ride height, stiffened shocks, remove power steering, remove A/C compressor, low viscocity fluids, ecu etc.

This should give you a reasonable amount of gain in performance even though the actual power of the engine hasn't changed much. Instead of trying to make the engine more powerful, just reduce the load/resistance it has to overcome.

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Old 5th April 2010, 12:21   #40
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Default Catalytic converter removal?

Just few questions regarding tapping some wasted power, in the FFE context:

What if I just bypass the cat con in the exhaust with a straight pipe? (everything else in exhaust stays the same)

- Will it increase performance?
- Will it increase the exhaust sound? If yes, will it be as bad as in a rally car?
- Will it induce more vibrations in the system?
- Any other impact?

I know it is not a good idea to bypass the cat con if you think about the pollution, but just curious to know.

One more:

- Does the cat con still help to reduce pollution after doing something like 60-70K Kms or has it become just something which blocks the exhaust flow?

Last edited by clevermax : 5th April 2010 at 12:28.
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Old 5th April 2010, 13:41   #41
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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Just few questions regarding tapping some wasted power, in the FFE context:

What if I just bypass the cat con in the exhaust with a straight pipe? (everything else in exhaust stays the same)

- Will it increase performance?
- Will it increase the exhaust sound? If yes, will it be as bad as in a rally car?
- Will it induce more vibrations in the system?
- Any other impact?

I know it is not a good idea to bypass the cat con if you think about the pollution, but just curious to know.

One more:

- Does the cat con still help to reduce pollution after doing something like 60-70K Kms or has it become just something which blocks the exhaust flow?
Functioning of cat-con after 60-70k kms solely depend on the type of fuel used on the car over the years. Bad fuel leads to clogging of the cat-con, I got my honey comb grill removed since they were no more doing the job, just smell your exhaust and if you smell rotten egg then the cat-con is gone..

The exhaust sound will increase but would be minimal say about 20% of what an FFE would sound.. On my baleno I felt a slight drop in low end torque after removing the dual cat-con..

For newer cars, the pollution level should be within in the limits after the removal.
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Old 5th April 2010, 14:34   #42
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Originally Posted by Mr_Bean View Post
The exhaust sound will increase but would be minimal say about 20% of what an FFE would sound.. On my baleno I felt a slight drop in low end torque after removing the dual cat-con..
Thanks for the explanation Mr_Bean.

The sound part is good to have, but how come you have drop in low end torque? Do you notice slightly more power at high revs?
Was FE affected?

it would be helpful if you could share info on how it was done.

Last edited by clevermax : 5th April 2010 at 14:40.
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Old 5th April 2010, 15:16   #43
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Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
@techn0l0gist & @Mi10: The most basic addon required, the ECU is no where in the estimation???
IMHO ECU is not always neccesary - you can get away with a simple fuel enrichment mechanism. Yes , that will mean we donot run at the 100% optimal state of tune - but then our aim anyway is to go fast without spending much

And in case of turbo'ing a carb car we can always find out ways to get the fueling under boost (there's a bit on how to do this in the book "Turbochargers by Hugh McInnes").

Also a piggy back for the stock ECU to get fuelling and timing right wouldn't cost much to design and build if one knows their way around electronics or has a friend/student who can build it - won't cost more than 5k !
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Old 5th April 2010, 15:24   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Just few questions regarding tapping some wasted power, in the FFE context:

What if I just bypass the cat con in the exhaust with a straight pipe? (everything else in exhaust stays the same)

- Will it increase performance?
- Will it increase the exhaust sound? If yes, will it be as bad as in a rally car?
- Will it induce more vibrations in the system?
- Any other impact?

I know it is not a good idea to bypass the cat con if you think about the pollution, but just curious to know.

One more:

- Does the cat con still help to reduce pollution after doing something like 60-70K Kms or has it become just something which blocks the exhaust flow?
Regarding pollution I can tell you that the cat is the biggest con ever the automotive industries. It does not reduce pollution (I am happily discussing this in a different thread, but not here).

If you remove a standard cat and replace on your cars (in your signature) you will see an improvement. But this will prove expensive on the Palio as you have the cat in the manifold.

Also you have to keep the second lambda sensor out of the exhaust but plugged in and wrapped in aluminium or a sealed tube.
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Old 5th April 2010, 15:58   #45
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Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post

Also a piggy back for the stock ECU to get fuelling and timing right wouldn't cost much to design and build if one knows their way around electronics or has a friend/student who can build it - won't cost more than 5k !
Do you have someone who has implemented this? The aftermarket ECU's like the RD are proven and reliable becos their installation count on cars, I feel a bad ECU may cause more money to drain..

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Thanks for the explanation Mr_Bean.

The sound part is good to have, but how come you have drop in low end torque? Do you notice slightly more power at high revs?
Was FE affected?

it would be helpful if you could share info on how it was done.
You have to remove the cat-con, inside you will see the honey comb grill, you need to break that down with a metal pipe.. Ensure you flush the exhaust after this, pieces of the grill inside can cause problems..

I got to learn this from my mechanic, the removal reduced a bit of backpressure & result was slight reduction of torque at lower rpm. But the engine has become free revving too.

Last edited by Mr_Bean : 5th April 2010 at 16:09. Reason: k
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