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Old 7th June 2010, 10:41   #76
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even if the signal is not working, I guess the hooter will blow. So if the car is in vicinity, you can track that its being attacked.
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Old 7th June 2010, 10:57   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i am considering a steering lock too, even though i know its of no use.
Get a branded one; believe me its a very useful + simple anti theft device. Someone messed around with the steering to clutch grip lock in my Jeep one late evening. A couple of mechanics couldn't disengage it, even after 3 hours of aggressive efforts.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
good question & i am not too sure how it will work in an area with absolutely no signal!
I share everyones concern on this point (it will effectively become useless in a zero network area), as well as on the point of cell phone jammers. The latter are available freely in the grey market. Question is : How would the thief know that you have a microvbb box installed?

Again, as I've posted in the Theft Protection Article (ARTICLE: How to protect your car from THEFT), there is no such thing as a theft-proof car. Key point is to make theft as difficult as possible, and hope that the thief moves on to easier prey (which they usually do).
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Old 7th June 2010, 11:10   #78
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I share everyones concern on this point (it will effectively become useless in a zero network area), as well as on the point of cell phone jammers. The latter are available freely in the grey market. Question is : How would the thief know that you have a microvbb box installed?

Again, as I've posted in the Theft Protection Article (ARTICLE: How to protect your car from THEFT), there is no such thing as a theft-proof car. Key point is to make theft as difficult as possible, and hope that the thief moves on to easier prey (which they usually do).
I completely agree with such precautions as Gear Lock and Steering Lock, and some other immobilizer devices, and also that theft-proofing is impossible.

However, I do not think that a 13K expense can be justified on a device that can be rendered completely useless by a 1K device. If the former was priced around lower, maybe around 5K, it would still seem a valuable extra; but at 13K the value ratio goes for a toss. I think the value calculation for any anti-theft device has to be directly correlated to (1) the amount of time required to disable it / bypass it, and (2) the investment required by the thief to acquire machinery to help with (1).

I have had the misfortune to come across some car thieves in my distant past (touch wood), and they were all, surprisingly tech savvy. They knew all about the various types of locking devices, wirings, and circuits etc. etc. Very soon, I foresee, most of them would go armed with Cell-phone Jammers (which is a tiny palm-sized device) on their car heists. Then a 13K device would be a sitting duck.

Last edited by roy_libran : 7th June 2010 at 11:13.
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Old 7th June 2010, 11:54   #79
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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
I completely agree with such precautions as Gear Lock and Steering Lock, and some other immobilizer devices, and also that theft-proofing is impossible.

However, I do not think that a 13K expense can be justified on a device that can be rendered completely useless by a 1K device. If the former was priced around lower, maybe around 5K, it would still seem a valuable extra; but at 13K the value ratio goes for a toss. I think the value calculation for any anti-theft device has to be directly correlated to (1) the amount of time required to disable it / bypass it, and (2) the investment required by the thief to acquire machinery to help with (1).

I have had the misfortune to come across some car thieves in my distant past (touch wood), and they were all, surprisingly tech savvy. They knew all about the various types of locking devices, wirings, and circuits etc. etc. Very soon, I foresee, most of them would go armed with Cell-phone Jammers (which is a tiny palm-sized device) on their car heists. Then a 13K device would be a sitting duck.
I agree whole heartedly what you have written. I myself rely on more than one system for my car protection. Gear lock, Steering lock, etc depending on the car model and how the stuff gets installed.

On my new City, the gear lock was not a practical solution due to insatallation constraints and I felt that only a steering lock may not prove all that much of an deterrent, hence went in for the micro vbb gsm based device.

Agreed, that the jammer can effectively render the system useless but sometime the thief is going to get off on reaching his/her destination and the jammer would be switched off in all probability as he would not be aware that such a device is installed. One can send the 'find' command and get the location at least in such situations.

At the end no method is foolproof/theft proof. It is just that one adds as many deterrents as possible for one's peace of mind and hope for the best. We all know how easy it is for the neighbourhood key maker to come and help out opening various locks, but will anyone dare NOT to lock his/her front door?

In
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Old 7th June 2010, 12:59   #80
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i agree on everything written above.

the only respite is that even if the thief manages to take away the car using a cell phone jammer, some day or the other when the car has been traded to someone else, i would come to know the location of the car. unless the smarty has disabled the system too!
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Old 7th June 2010, 13:17   #81
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If the thief takes away the car by jamming signals, then disabling/cracking the system is the first thing he will do. Come on, that's fairly logical, else why would he use jammers in the first place.

Last edited by tanwaramit : 7th June 2010 at 13:20.
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Old 7th June 2010, 13:41   #82
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I think, no one is wrong here.

The bottom-line is, that this product is grossly over-priced when compared with other anti-theft products, if the quantum of time and difficulty level required, to overcome the security system is compared with other security devices, vis-a-vis their respective costs.
It would be, indeed a good addition to other security devices at a corrected and reduced price.

After all:
- A cheap cell unit (mass produced) - 300 bucks
- Control Unit - 300 bucks
- Wiring Harness - 400 bucks
- Sensors - 1000 bucks
- Other expenses - 1000 bucks
- Approximate Loading (Logistics + Distribution + Profit + Advertisement) - 60%
Rough Street Price = 5000 bucks +/- 10%
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Old 9th June 2010, 01:21   #83
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What does "2 way communicaiton" means for Navigator ??
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:47   #84
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there is a panel on the dashboard with a red, green & panic button on it. a normal 'Nokia' handsfree can be connected to it. it can be used to call the 'registered user'. the panic button can be used in emergencies.
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Old 28th June 2010, 11:18   #85
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After having had the unit for about 4 weeks in which the Micro VBB people changed 4 to 5 units and still did not get the functioning right, I have finally had the unit unistalled and returned it for a refund.
My experience has taught me that they do not have any:
1. 'Standard Installation Process'.
2. Proven Quality tests or inspections.
3. Have a huge wiring harness with a dozen or so connectors of which only are few used. For the rest they cut/splice the car's wiring thereby voiding all warranties!
4. Are peddling a product with extremely doubtful performance and one which can be disabled in a minute resulting in a useless anti-theft device.
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Old 28th June 2010, 15:57   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroThoughts View Post
After having had the unit for about 4 weeks in which the Micro VBB people changed 4 to 5 units and still did not get the functioning right, I have finally had the unit unistalled and returned it for a refund.
most probably, you have gone to a bad installer buddy. was this the micro VBB authorized dealer? did you try complaining on the toll free number? did you get the refund?

Quote:
My experience has taught me that they do not have any:
1. 'Standard Installation Process'.
they do have. infact my installer did enlighten me on the difference between an innova's installation w.r.t scorpio's.

Quote:
2. Proven Quality tests or inspections.
no comments. my car's black box is working fine till now.

Quote:
3. Have a huge wiring harness with a dozen or so connectors of which only are few used. For the rest they cut/splice the car's wiring thereby voiding all warranties!
none of the car's wiring should be touched. infact, i was told that if my car's wiring is touched for any reason, i can give a call to the Mumbai head (i had his number) & complain.

the only wire they have touched in my car is the ignition wire & they have used a proper T-joint connector.
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Old 28th June 2010, 18:53   #87
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
most probably, you have gone to a bad installer buddy. was this the micro VBB authorized dealer? did you try complaining on the toll free number? did you get the refund?

The installer himself raised the issue with Mumbai. Had discussed problems with at least 3-4 people from Mumbai. All said it would be rectified but to no avail. Was also told that someone technical from Mumbai would be visiting to inspect the car & system, took time-off from office to accomodate the appoitment, no one from Mumbai, just another bunch of Delhi Micro Technologies technicians. After adjusting and again rewiring etc. they told me that the "Attempt To Start Vehicle" alert that I was getting earlier in an erratic manner, will now be available only when someone makes an attempt to start without opening any doors!

Have been promised the refund today, let's see if they keep their word.

they do have. infact my installer did enlighten me on the difference between an innova's installation w.r.t scorpio's.

Yes, the technician's will tell you the minor details regarding switches present or not etc. They do not have standard diodes set out for various different wiring systems. It is a hit & trial method.

no comments. my car's black box is working fine till now.

Have you actually gone and checked the functioning of all the sensors a few times? Basically, try to emulate / simulate theft situations and see if the respose is same at all times. In my case response was erratic. By response I am refering to the lights blinking and not the time taken for receipt of SMS &/or the missed call. If the unit does not register the trigger, then you will never get the alert for it.

none of the car's wiring should be touched. infact, i was told that if my car's wiring is touched for any reason, i can give a call to the Mumbai head (i had his number) & complain.

Did you personally supervise the installation at all time? I was told the same thing but the actual experience proved to be totally different. If what you say is true could you please pm me the Mumbai Head number so that I can just have a word with him.

the only wire they have touched in my car is the ignition wire & they have used a proper T-joint connector.
As above, it was extremely painful to see all the wires being wrapped up in insulation tape after the removal.

As I live in an area which is extremely theft prone I was really very excited about this product and went ahead with it's installation. I would have persisted with them and seen to it that they rectify it too. But when they started to swap 3 to 4 'NEW' units and still things would not function, I started to get uneasy. As the technicians were spending so much time with the car, I also got to overhear the other complaints that were coming in and the manner in which they were being dealt with by the technicians. I then had a detailed talk with them regarding the installations & the problems and it was clear that the system was trouble prone, still I kept requesting them to rectify the problems and I will endure the minor irritants.

The proverbial last straw was when the Mumbai technician did not turn up, nor did the new set of technicians try to understand the problem but blamed it all on my expectations. I promptly told them to just remove it and be done with it, and they were very happy to do it!
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Old 28th June 2010, 21:37   #88
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That said, even i have faced quite a few issues like "door open" messages coming quite often. i used to dismiss it as my driver's mistake.

now that you have said this, i will try all the functions once & update you on this. the main problem with my black box is that it has a MTNL Sim card in it & i stay in powai where it has very little range!
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Old 29th June 2010, 08:48   #89
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@ ZeroThoughts: hey buddy, i checked all the sensors & functions of the black box in my car & everything is working perfectly. I checked each & every door & all the commands too, including the Find & Engine off commands. All the commands are working & the system is operating properly.

regarding the commands, i did try to simulate a theft attempt & try opening each of the doors & usually the siren would trigger & lights would blink in 1-2 seconds & i would get the individual message of that particular door in another 4 seconds. Even i tried starting the car & the car would not start.

so i am facing no issues as of now & i am still happy with it. by the way, you installed this in your accent?

i feel the mumbai installers have installed this in so many scorpios (the installer told me that most of the installs have been in scorpios & innovas), that they are now well versed with the installation procedure & gremlins faced with the scorpio.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 29th June 2010 at 08:51.
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Old 30th June 2010, 11:23   #90
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
@ ZeroThoughts: hey buddy, i checked all the sensors & functions of the black box in my car & everything is working perfectly. I checked each & every door & all the commands too, including the Find & Engine off commands. All the commands are working & the system is operating properly.

Happy to hear that. Did they install some of the sensors on the doors or did they use the ones provided in your car?

regarding the commands, i did try to simulate a theft attempt & try opening each of the doors & usually the siren would trigger & lights would blink in 1-2 seconds & i would get the individual message of that particular door in another 4 seconds. Even i tried starting the car & the car would not start.

That is the way it is supposed to work! I just did not understand why they could not fix the problem in my car and in the end were more than happy to remove it.
Do you get "Attempt to start" alert when you did try to start the car?

so i am facing no issues as of now & i am still happy with it. by the way, you installed this in your accent?

Not the Accent. Sold it and bought the Honda City AT. Got it installed in it as there is no proper gear lock available for it. At the time of uninstallation I got to see how they had wired the various diodes using the same wiring of the car and thus had cut the car wiring. The city required just 1 sensor of theirs, for the Bonnet/ Engine Hood.

i feel the mumbai installers have installed this in so many scorpios (the installer told me that most of the installs have been in scorpios & innovas), that they are now well versed with the installation procedure & gremlins faced with the scorpio.
People from Mumbai did talk to me and assured me that the problem would be sorted out. I was even told that a couple of specialists from Mumbai will be over in Delhi, but then it just turned out to be false promises.

I have received the refund cheque.
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