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Old 2nd June 2010, 10:44   #46
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Originally Posted by sanjaymugur View Post
you will need to retard the ignition timing for doing this...

I dont think that will be the only thing to be done, retarding the timing is definitly one step but it will depend more on the custom maps you can have for the ECU.


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Old 2nd June 2010, 11:54   #47
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We have widely avfailalble 99 octane and even 102 octane from the pumps.
Whether the additive packages are different I don't know. Neither do I know what the impact is on adulterated fuel. It might be possible to even use it as an advantage.
I think 95 octane is available in Metro cities, but I haven't seen any pump in our state (Kerala) supplying that. Even 95 octane is priced very high.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 13:44   #48
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If the intake is anywhere behind the front bumper, may the engine RIP! We're famous for flooded roads.

The biggest problem you'll want to contend with is the harsh operating conditions for a car here: dirt, heat, water and sub-optimal road surfaces.
Sounds like Britain. I have lost 4 rims int the past 2 years on British roads, because of potholes in the night. The last winter added at least 35 million holes in British road, which you can add to the existing ones that hardly being covered.

Anyway, dirt is my least worry. The filter can be protected in several ways.

Heat is something we have to contain with everywhere in the world bar Siberia. But this doesn't worry me too much either. We still can get some great results

Water has to be seen to. What I need to understand how high the water levels are in flooding. I know that cars are often submerged when flooding occurs, but then no engine will survive unless the car has got a snorkel.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 13:46   #49
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I think 95 octane is available in Metro cities, but I haven't seen any pump in our state (Kerala) supplying that. Even 95 octane is priced very high.
The inverntion of the knock sensor helps a lot on going to extremes.

What is the lowest octane rating supplied and what are the other ratings?
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Old 2nd June 2010, 14:07   #50
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The inverntion of the knock sensor helps a lot on going to extremes.

What is the lowest octane rating supplied and what are the other ratings?
The Lowest octane rating supplied is 87 octane.

Ever better fuel additives commonly used [in petrol] are

1. Kerosene
2. Diesel mix

The fact is that we cannot check the quality of fuel available from the pumps. We take what is given and the car takes the
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Old 2nd June 2010, 14:22   #51
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
The Lowest octane rating supplied is 87 octane.

Ever better fuel additives commonly used [in petrol] are

1. Kerosene
2. Diesel mix

The fact is that we cannot check the quality of fuel available from the pumps. We take what is given and the car takes the
Petrol is no longer adultrated using kerosene due to no availability in the black market and blue clour.

As far as diesel is concerned, no one will adultrate something with something almost equally priced.

As far as i know naptha is used for petrol adultration, and more seen in reliance pumps because they have a refinery which produces naptha. Any ways all this is OT.

I believe there are additives which we can use with low octane fuel to reduce knocking in high compression engine.

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Old 3rd June 2010, 03:19   #52
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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The CAI usually ends up sucking hot air due to its placement as per indian conditions, the only reason why people dont prefer to increase the compression is because of less availability of higher octane fuel. But again a question cant a high compression ingine tuned(read ecu programming) to run on low octane fuel without knocking?

Pramod
The octane rating is not the only factor deciding the volatility. It is to a certain degree depending on the additive package the different suppliers use and gets even more complicated with mixing different brands of fuel.

As I have no experience with the fuel on your ho,e market I cab't comment right now. We might even be in for a positive surprise.
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Old 7th June 2010, 17:03   #53
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Finally on Saturday I got to see a Punto MJD to take some measurements.

While I was at the dealer I had a better look at the Multi air engines. They will be very interesting when it comes to re-mapping. The missing inlet cam will make it for us tuners much more rewarding to get the most out of the engine. Unfortunately the ECUs haven't been cracked yet, but should not take too long because Fiat messed about with the Multi air heads that they did not want to change to a more modern ECU type. The Marelli ECU is fairly familiar to the code crackers.

Will be interesting to see the results. Performance should be equal to biiger engined rivals.
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Old 7th June 2010, 17:54   #54
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@CPH: Cool Pete

OK, now could you please share the specs of the Punto MJD you saw? Does it have a FGT or a VGT?

Also, could you explain what the missing inlet CAM is?

Cheers
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Old 7th June 2010, 20:37   #55
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
@CPH: Cool Pete

OK, now could you please share the specs of the Punto MJD you saw? Does it have a FGT or a VGT?

Also, could you explain what the missing inlet CAM is?

Cheers
It was an FGT, but the induction will be marginally different on the VGT.

Well, the missing inlet cam is replaced by the Schaeffer valve control system. It is an electro hydraulic system that allows on the inlet side a fully variable cam timing with fully variable lift from 0 to maximum lift. The exhaust cam lobes charge the hydraulics.

This allows for better economy as well as more power/torque because the cam is not fixed on lift, the valves can be operated independently as as totally varied as load and rpm require. This is miles ahead of the Japanese VVTs.

Still there is a better system, which is designed by FEV (the company that designed the Nano engine). The FEV system has no cam at all.
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Old 14th June 2010, 13:57   #56
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Well, the missing inlet cam is replaced by the Schaeffer valve control system. It is an electro hydraulic system that allows on the inlet side a fully variable cam timing with fully variable lift from 0 to maximum lift. The exhaust cam lobes charge the hydraulics.

This allows for better economy as well as more power/torque because the cam is not fixed on lift, the valves can be operated independently as as totally varied as load and rpm require. This is miles ahead of the Japanese VVTs.
This is great information Pete.

Could anyone confirm whether the indian Fiat Grande Puntos have the Schaeffer Valve control system?
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Old 16th June 2010, 01:44   #57
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
This is great information Pete.

Could anyone confirm whether the indian Fiat Grande Puntos have the Schaeffer Valve control system?
It will not be available for the 8v engines.

The 8v engines will be sometime soon be repalced by the new two cylinder engine, which comes in normally aspirated form as well as turbo charged.
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Old 16th June 2010, 08:33   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Well, the missing inlet cam is replaced by the Schaeffer valve control system. It is an electro hydraulic system that allows on the inlet side a fully variable cam timing with fully variable lift from 0 to maximum lift. The exhaust cam lobes charge the hydraulics.

This allows for better economy as well as more power/torque because the cam is not fixed on lift, the valves can be operated independently as as totally varied as load and rpm require. This is miles ahead of the Japanese VVTs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Could anyone confirm whether the indian Fiat Grande Puntos have the Schaeffer Valve control system?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPH View Post
It will not be available for the 8v engines.

The 8v engines will be sometime soon be repalced by the new two cylinder engine, which comes in normally aspirated form as well as turbo charged.
Hey Pete,
I was referring to the Punto featuring the 1.3 Multi Jet Diesel engine.

Anyways, thats some nice piece of information - the schaeffer valve controls.

Cheers
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Old 16th June 2010, 23:37   #59
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Hey Pete,
I was referring to the Punto featuring the 1.3 Multi Jet Diesel engine.

Anyways, thats some nice piece of information - the schaeffer valve controls.

Cheers
Sorry, my bad.

The Schaeffer system will be available eventually for the Diesel range too. As far as I am informed from the horses mouth, (which doesn't mean anything in -Italy because Fiat changes announcements as often as most people their shirts) the first engine to get the multi air is the new 1600cc.
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:50   #60
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Originally Posted by CPH View Post
Finally on Saturday I got to see a Punto MJD to take some measurements.

While I was at the dealer I had a better look at the Multi air engines. They will be very interesting when it comes to re-mapping. The missing inlet cam will make it for us tuners much more rewarding to get the most out of the engine. Unfortunately the ECUs haven't been cracked yet, but should not take too long because Fiat messed about with the Multi air heads that they did not want to change to a more modern ECU type. The Marelli ECU is fairly familiar to the code crackers.

Will be interesting to see the results. Performance should be equal to biiger engined rivals.
Can i help you in getting the specs you need of Punto MJD in India. Ofcourse only the FGT launched yet.
If you can let me know how i can, i will be delightful to help.
Note: I am a complete newbie when it comes to all these, so may sound stupid. though i love FIAT and my Punto MJD.
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