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Old 27th June 2010, 15:30   #31
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Oh yeah! i worked out a Deal. sold off the Kit but had to incur Loss so finally decided i'll be getting the same Kit as of Maglev installed in my car too. just waiting for the Mixer to arrive. probably Friday or this weekend. Lets see if you guys can join me for some time.

Last edited by aah78 : 3rd July 2010 at 19:22. Reason: Alcohol reference removed.
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Old 28th June 2010, 03:15   #32
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Originally Posted by S.I.N.G.H View Post
but as per what i auditioned, there is no way the spare tyre can move from the position even incase of any kind of impact. there is not enough space for the tyre to tilt, break through the tray and enter the cabin. and this is no interpretation. i am saying what i saw in his car. imo, there is no need of any angle bar.

Thats what I had also thought originally, but if I am able to get the spare wheel fixed in that position I'll be all the more glad!!



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Originally Posted by lucksin View Post
I got to meet Maglev and see his Ritz and CNG installation, and all i have to say is the Kit was so marvelously fitted that it made my ritz kit fitting look like a poppycock.

also it was nice meeting both of you guys S.I.N.G.H and Maglev

It was great meeting you too bro, thanks for the compliment on my CNG install.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lucksin View Post
Oh yeah! i worked out a Deal. sold off the Kit but had to incur Loss so finally decided i'll be getting the same Kit as of Maglev installed in my car too. just waiting for the Mixer to arrive. probably Friday or this weekend. Lets see if you guys can join me for some time.

Lets see, I might not be in New Delhi on this weekend but if I am I'll definitely meet up!!

Last edited by aah78 : 3rd July 2010 at 19:23. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 28th June 2010, 15:12   #33
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CNG and advanced timing of the engine heat up the engine faster. The first effect of CNG will be on the valves. use the vehicle for 4-5kms on petrol daily

You are already used to CNG cars.. so i am sure you'll be taking good care of her!

Last edited by saintsinner : 28th June 2010 at 15:17.
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Old 28th June 2010, 16:10   #34
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CNG and advanced timing of the engine heat up the engine faster. The first effect of CNG will be on the valves. use the vehicle for 4-5kms on petrol daily

You are already used to CNG cars.. so i am sure you'll be taking good care of her!

Yes I am trying to take as much care as I can. Infact I have still not gone in for the timing advancer as I want the engine to adjust to CNG first. Even if I do end up installing the TAP module I'll do it after covering 1000km on CNG.

As of now the difference between petrol and CNG is not much, this is especially true after the spark plug(s) gap was adjusted.
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Old 29th June 2010, 12:31   #35
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Excellent thread, the install is well documented! Rated 5 stars.

With fuel prices shooting up (Mumbai petrol = 56 bucks a liter!), CNG installers are bound to be a busy lot. LPG hardly makes any sense vis a vis diesel, but CNG still has a strong case in India. In a country obsessed by FE, I'm left wondering why CNG penetration is so low. Right, we do have a thread on that topic (What's your stopping factor on a LPG/CNG conversion).

I hope your CNG install works for you in the longer-term. Do keep updating this thread whenever necessary (positive / negative experiences...both). Thanks for sharing & congratulations on a seemingly good install.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:11   #36
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CNG (Compressed natural gas) is gaseous form with a pressure of around 200 bar, where as LPG is in liquid form and the pressure is 10-15 bar.

Now two thing restrict 1. the infrastructure to carry CNG (by tankers / pipeline) requires huge investment. Secondly the mass of gas carried in a cylinder for the two gasses, CNG is always less so to say the range will be less.

But then I a country like Bangladesh where they have extensive network of Gas Pipeline, 90% of Automobiles run on CNG. In Power Generation till now it was only GAS Powered gensets that were sold for captive use and for to supply to the grid.

To liquify the Natural Gas is a very expensive, till CNG came in select towns, the same gas was flared (burned), they do so the same in Assam even now. There are LNG terminals being set up and are operating but then there is industrial supply only. The case be storage at cryogenic temperatures.

LPG as is imported, it is costly, the rate fluctuates when there is winter season in US/ Europe the demand for lpg for house heating goes up and so the price.
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Old 29th June 2010, 22:34   #37
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Nice thread and well documented. I too did extensive research before going for CNG. Even now after the price increase, I reduce my fuel bills by over 60%, which is excellent. I went for an open loop system and installed the TAP to reduce the power loss since I have an Alto.

Last weekend I went on a trip to Mahableshwar from Mumbai and could do nearly the entire trip on CNG. I first tanked up in Mumbai, then refulled on the highway near Kothrud and then drove off to Mahableshwar. I just had to do a 20km stretch on petrol, rest everything was on CNG (including sightseeing in Mahableshwar). Most weekend getaways from Mumbai are pretty much covered

Maglev, please do post your detailed experiences with CNG and how have you maintained your earlier CNG vehicles. Also could you elaborate on the correct gapping of spark plugs post CNG conversion which you have been following?
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Old 30th June 2010, 00:28   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Excellent thread, the install is well documented! Rated 5 stars.

With fuel prices shooting up (Mumbai petrol = 56 bucks a liter!), CNG installers are bound to be a busy lot. LPG hardly makes any sense vis a vis diesel, but CNG still has a strong case in India. In a country obsessed by FE, I'm left wondering why CNG penetration is so low. Right, we do have a thread on that topic (What's your stopping factor on a LPG/CNG conversion).

I hope your CNG install works for you in the longer-term. Do keep updating this thread whenever necessary (positive / negative experiences...both). Thanks for sharing & congratulations on a seemingly good install.


Thanks GTO, those are definitely confidence inspiring words from your side. I'll be keeping this thread as up to date as possible.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
Nice thread and well documented. I too did extensive research before going for CNG. Even now after the price increase, I reduce my fuel bills by over 60%, which is excellent. I went for an open loop system and installed the TAP to reduce the power loss since I have an Alto.

Last weekend I went on a trip to Mahableshwar from Mumbai and could do nearly the entire trip on CNG. I first tanked up in Mumbai, then refulled on the highway near Kothrud and then drove off to Mahableshwar. I just had to do a 20km stretch on petrol, rest everything was on CNG (including sightseeing in Mahableshwar). Most weekend getaways from Mumbai are pretty much covered

Maglev, please do post your detailed experiences with CNG and how have you maintained your earlier CNG vehicles. Also could you elaborate on the correct gapping of spark plugs post CNG conversion which you have been following?

Thanks SAS, I myself would be going in for a TAP module but in the near future not now. I also was surprised after the drastic increase in mileage / efficiency & cost reduction which I got after my first CNG switchover.

My first CNG car was the Esteem Limited Edition which was converted, sometime in end 2004 - early 2005.

As far as the spark plug gap goes, generally the gap is reduced as the ignition temperature of CNG is higher than petrol.
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Old 30th June 2010, 18:03   #39
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maglev, why would the gap be reduced if the ignition temp is higher? ideally would we not want to increase the gap so that we get a fatter & hotter spark? when the gap is increased the resistance increases which should produce a fatter and hotter spark, assuming the electricals can take the additional load. let me know your thoughts.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 01:54   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
maglev, why would the gap be reduced if the ignition temp is higher? ideally would we not want to increase the gap so that we get a fatter & hotter spark? when the gap is increased the resistance increases which should produce a fatter and hotter spark, assuming the electricals can take the additional load. let me know your thoughts.
Me think as the resistance increase, there is more difficulty to get the spark, and any problem with spark will cause in engine performance, CNG / LPG being slow burning fuels.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 13:35   #41
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Originally Posted by maglev View Post
The Kit is a GNC (Argentina) Kit, with a lambda. The kit cost me Rs: 26,000/- in total without RC endorsement as I plan to get it done on my own. The Kit comes with a 1 year warranty on all the components.

.......

02. Price difference between LXI & LDI is Rs. 90,000/-, Cost of CNG kit Rs 26,000 + 1000 for RC endorsement. It still works out cheaper by Rs 63,000/-.
Is this cost including installation?
Asking because many sites list the cost of CNG conversion as above Rs. 40000?

For eg.
Converion Cost Calculator
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Old 2nd July 2010, 14:45   #42
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I agree that CNG is a boon with fuel prices being what they are. Also if the installer knows what he is doing then there is scarcely power loss that makes it impossible to drive. Sure its not the same, but in stop and go traffic it doesnt really matter.

However its the heat thats generated by the CNG engine is what is making maintainence expenses shoot for our Esteem. The oil seals rupture every year and Vitesse insists this is due to the high running (lots of kms) and heating effect of the CNG which ruin the engine not meant to operate at such temperatures. Mind you, its not overheating since the temperature gauge is almost at the same position. However the difference just by feeling the bonnet after a petrol run and a CNG run is very very easy to feel.

Anyone have any solutions for this one? Also, to make up for the loss in power my driver regularly revs the engine past 3-4k rpms. I feel this may be a contributing factor. What say?
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Old 2nd July 2010, 18:02   #43
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Any idea when will Maruti launch CNG Ritz?

Srinivas
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Old 2nd July 2010, 22:33   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maglev View Post
My first CNG car was the Esteem Limited Edition which was converted, sometime in end 2004 - early 2005.
Maglev,

Can you share your long term experience with CNG and what precautions / care did you take? Did you change your oil to synthetic / thicker grade like 20w50 instead of the normal 20w40? My installer asked me to also clean the air filter every month.

Do share your inputs since it's been 5 years since you converted to CNG.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 01:52   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
maglev, why would the gap be reduced if the ignition temp is higher? ideally would we not want to increase the gap so that we get a fatter & hotter spark? when the gap is increased the resistance increases which should produce a fatter and hotter spark, assuming the electricals can take the additional load. let me know your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
Me think as the resistance increase, there is more difficulty to get the spark, and any problem with spark will cause in engine performance, CNG / LPG being slow burning fuels.

The Spark plug gap is generally reduced in the case of CNG vehicles as it ensures quicker ignition, I could be wrong though I'll find out from my installer in a day or two and then let you know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Is this cost including installation?
Asking because many sites list the cost of CNG conversion as above Rs. 40000?

For eg.
Converion Cost Calculator

Yes sir! Rs 26,000/- includes everything:

CNG kit (Reducer) + Cylinder + Cylinder Stand + Lambda + Emulator + Petrol to CNG conversion switch + Tuning + One year warranty on all components & the file containing all relevant documentation for RC endorsement. Which costs an additional 1000 if you do it yourself or around 2.5K if you go through a broker.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Takumi-san View Post
I agree that CNG is a boon with fuel prices being what they are. Also if the installer knows what he is doing then there is scarcely power loss that makes it impossible to drive. Sure its not the same, but in stop and go traffic it doesnt really matter.

However its the heat thats generated by the CNG engine is what is making maintainence expenses shoot for our Esteem. The oil seals rupture every year and Vitesse insists this is due to the high running (lots of kms) and heating effect of the CNG which ruin the engine not meant to operate at such temperatures. Mind you, its not overheating since the temperature gauge is almost at the same position. However the difference just by feeling the bonnet after a petrol run and a CNG run is very very easy to feel.

Anyone have any solutions for this one? Also, to make up for the loss in power my driver regularly revs the engine past 3-4k rpms. I feel this may be a contributing factor. What say?


An Esteem is a joy to drive in CNG, given the fact that the kit is correctly installed and the ignition timing advanced. I'd suggest that you go to a reputed installer to get the timing advanced as even in the Euro III MPFI Esteem's the ignition timing can be advanced by rotating the distributer.

For the heating issue get your radiator flushed or better still get it changed (it should be around Rs 2200 for Steel or Rs 2600 for copper). I got the copper one installed in my Esteem after 1.5 Lac kms



Quote:
Originally Posted by nayaksrinivasv View Post
Any idea when will Maruti launch CNG Ritz?

Srinivas

I have know Idea, but there is a thread dedicated to this topic in the Indian car scene on T-BHP itself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
Maglev,

Can you share your long term experience with CNG and what precautions / care did you take? Did you change your oil to synthetic / thicker grade like 20w50 instead of the normal 20w40? My installer asked me to also clean the air filter every month.

Do share your inputs since it's been 5 years since you converted to CNG.

I just followed the manufacturers service schedule with one minor change. I used to get the spark plugs and air filter changed after every 10,000kms. The spark plugs would usually cost around Rs 250-300 from MASS and the air filter was also around Rs 200.

This was the only change at the A.S.S. level, apart from this after every routine service at the A.S.S. the car would go to the CNG installer for a general check up + tuning of the CNG kit. Either on the same day or the very next day.


The rest my friend was fill it, shut it & forget it!!
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