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Old 3rd July 2010, 06:59   #46
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Hi Maglev,

thinking of changing my Santro to CNG.
What is the capacity of the cylinder? How much does your car (Ritz) run on a full cylinder?
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Old 3rd July 2010, 11:45   #47
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hello maglev,
did you consider a sequential kit ? Is it even available at your installer ?
I've heard sequnatial kits have like close to zero compromise on performance.
We have a company fitted Alto CNG and the spare wheel sits in its original position below the cylinder and in case of a flat we just need to pull the rear seat down and pull out the spare wheel i wonder why its not the same in yours.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 12:24   #48
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NAVNEET-the cylinder weighs 12kg/ 60l. as per the calculations, the car is giving an average of around 15.5. this was what maglev discussed with me. maglev could give us the recent updates!

YOGII- no sir, our installer doesn't install the sequential kits. rest maglev would enlighten us!

Last edited by S.I.N.G.H : 3rd July 2010 at 12:27.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 14:37   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
hello maglev,
did you consider a sequential kit ? Is it even available at your installer ?
I've heard sequnatial kits have like close to zero compromise on performance.
We have a company fitted Alto CNG and the spare wheel sits in its original position below the cylinder and in case of a flat we just need to pull the rear seat down and pull out the spare wheel i wonder why its not the same in yours.
Just to share an information here. Its true that SI kits can delivery almost similar performance as that of petrol. Also the engine will be more happy as the gas and air are not mixed as in a Lambda system. Switching between petrol/cng can never be noticed in an SI kit. Don't know how much is the cost of an SI kit for CNG, for LPG it costs around 38-40K. Factory fitted LPG cars like Spark, Xeta LPG and Santro eco runs on SI kits where Maruti relies on Lambda systems for their Duos.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 18:49   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp_maniac View Post
Just to share an information here. Its true that SI kits can delivery almost similar performance as that of petrol. Also the engine will be more happy as the gas and air are not mixed as in a Lambda system. Switching between petrol/cng can never be noticed in an SI kit. Don't know how much is the cost of an SI kit for CNG, for LPG it costs around 38-40K. Factory fitted LPG cars like Spark, Xeta LPG and Santro eco runs on SI kits where Maruti relies on Lambda systems for their Duos.
Well, that's very true, SI kits are far better than what we generally install. The only caveats are that SI kits are more difficult to install (and even remove), they require professional installation and they are more than double the cost. SI CNG kits with a good installation are upwards 60k. I went for a normal lovato kit and it costed me 28k. My running is 1400km per month and it shall take me 9 months to recover the costs. So far, I've recovered half the costs of the kit.

One odd benefit is that these normal systems are like your carburetor systems in cars. So when you take your foot off the accelerator, the car coasts and slowly comes to a halt (the EFI on the Maruti Alto is very jerky).
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Old 3rd July 2010, 20:20   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
Hi Maglev,

thinking of changing my Santro to CNG.
What is the capacity of the cylinder? How much does your car (Ritz) run on a full cylinder?

I have installed a 12kg CNG cylinder in my Ritz, all my other cars have a 14kg cylinder. You can install 8, 10, 12 or 14kg cylinders.

The reason I choose the 12kg cylinder for my Ritz was that the spare was easily fixed in the remaining space.

My car runs for about 125-150 km on a single tank of CNG using 100% a/c & 100% city, the variation occurs due to idling with the a/c on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
hello maglev,
did you consider a sequential kit ? Is it even available at your installer ?
I've heard sequnatial kits have like close to zero compromise on performance.
We have a company fitted Alto CNG and the spare wheel sits in its original position below the cylinder and in case of a flat we just need to pull the rear seat down and pull out the spare wheel i wonder why its not the same in yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.I.N.G.H View Post
NAVNEET-the cylinder weighs 12kg/ 60l. as per the calculations, the car is giving an average of around 15.5. this was what maglev discussed with me. maglev could give us the recent updates!

YOGII- no sir, our installer doesn't install the sequential kits. rest maglev would enlighten us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp_maniac View Post
Just to share an information here. Its true that SI kits can delivery almost similar performance as that of petrol. Also the engine will be more happy as the gas and air are not mixed as in a Lambda system. Switching between petrol/cng can never be noticed in an SI kit. Don't know how much is the cost of an SI kit for CNG, for LPG it costs around 38-40K. Factory fitted LPG cars like Spark, Xeta LPG and Santro eco runs on SI kits where Maruti relies on Lambda systems for their Duos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
Well, that's very true, SI kits are far better than what we generally install. The only caveats are that SI kits are more difficult to install (and even remove), they require professional installation and they are more than double the cost. SI CNG kits with a good installation are upwards 60k. I went for a normal lovato kit and it costed me 28k. My running is 1400km per month and it shall take me 9 months to recover the costs. So far, I've recovered half the costs of the kit.

One odd benefit is that these normal systems are like your carburetor systems in cars. So when you take your foot off the accelerator, the car coasts and slowly comes to a halt (the EFI on the Maruti Alto is very jerky).


The Sequential Injection kits can deliver amazing performance, but they are permanent in nature. One cannot get them removed as the installation of such kits requires drilling holes in the cylinder head. If done incorrectly then you practically need a brand new engine, so it isn't worth the risk or cost. Finding an expert for installation is also difficult.

The spare in my car cannot be removed by folding the seats as the design of the spare wheel well does not permit this.

The Chevrolet Aveo comes with a factory installed Sequential Injection CNG kit.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 21:06   #52
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If converted from Kg to liters each Kg of CNG should be equivalent to 2 liters that way fuel average per liter should be half that of per kg. Its a completely wrong notion that the sequential injection kits require drilling in the cylinder head . The injectors are fitted in the inlet manifold and not in the head and can be easily removed and the holes resealed at the most the inlet manifold can be replaced . Also the sequential kits have there own gas ECU's so in effect technology wise the sequential injection is as different to mixer kits as a carburetor engine to mpfi engine because by fitting the mixer and switching to CNG all the technological benefits of the moden mpfi and ecu controlled system is lost.

Last edited by ask77 : 3rd July 2010 at 21:16.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 23:52   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask77 View Post
If converted from Kg to liters each Kg of CNG should be equivalent to 2 liters that way fuel average per liter should be half that of per kg.
In my experience, in terms of mileage 1kg CNG = 1.5 litres of petrol. Again, this is only in terms of mileage and not in terms of thermal units.
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Old 4th July 2010, 16:19   #54
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : SMS / Slang language posts are strictly prohibited on Team-BHP. We advise you to visit our board rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 5th July 2010 at 19:56.
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Old 4th July 2010, 20:47   #55
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great thread and wonderfully documented maglev.
I myself went the CNG way for my 2004 optra and have been one happy convert. The vehicle is giving us a FE of 15-16 kms to the kg and with monthly driving being about 3000-3200 kms I am quite happy with paying Rs.1.77 to the kms. This i s after the government increased the prices of CNG.
The only thing troubling me is though my cylinder being 14 kgs it accommodates only 9-9.3 kg of CNG. Is this normal?
I have tried filling CNG from 2-3 different CNG pumps and the pressure is always > 200psi!
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Old 4th July 2010, 22:49   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
The only thing troubling me is though my cylinder being 14 kgs it accommodates only 9-9.3 kg of CNG. Is this normal?
I have tried filling CNG from 2-3 different CNG pumps and the pressure is always > 200psi!
yes thats very much normal even i have tried at many stations sometimes the pressure is even lower than 200(around 100-150 i guess) and it fills up for about 100 bucks.
Pressure is lower in summers as compared to winters
Once i saw a pressure of about 300 and that time the amount was a little over 200rs
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Old 5th July 2010, 00:03   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask77 View Post
If converted from Kg to liters each Kg of CNG should be equivalent to 2 liters that way fuel average per liter should be half that of per kg. Its a completely wrong notion that the sequential injection kits require drilling in the cylinder head . The injectors are fitted in the inlet manifold and not in the head and can be easily removed and the holes resealed at the most the inlet manifold can be replaced . Also the sequential kits have there own gas ECU's so in effect technology wise the sequential injection is as different to mixer kits as a carburetor engine to mpfi engine because by fitting the mixer and switching to CNG all the technological benefits of the moden mpfi and ecu controlled system is lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
In my experience, in terms of mileage 1kg CNG = 1.5 litres of petrol. Again, this is only in terms of mileage and not in terms of thermal units.

I have equated 1kg of CNG to 1 litre of petrol only because these are the units at which they are sold. So it makes the maths to calculate the cost per km simpler.



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Originally Posted by EFF-EIGHT-BEE View Post
just want to know that wahts that alarm thingy jst left to hrad light adjustment lever ?

That button is used to disarm the anti-theft system, If the remote of the corresponding system fails.



Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
great thread and wonderfully documented maglev.
I myself went the CNG way for my 2004 optra and have been one happy convert. The vehicle is giving us a FE of 15-16 kms to the kg and with monthly driving being about 3000-3200 kms I am quite happy with paying Rs.1.77 to the kms. This i s after the government increased the prices of CNG.
The only thing troubling me is though my cylinder being 14 kgs it accommodates only 9-9.3 kg of CNG. Is this normal?
I have tried filling CNG from 2-3 different CNG pumps and the pressure is always > 200psi!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
yes thats very much normal even i have tried at many stations sometimes the pressure is even lower than 200(around 100-150 i guess) and it fills up for about 100 bucks.
Pressure is lower in summers as compared to winters
Once i saw a pressure of about 300 and that time the amount was a little over 200rs

@ Harjeev

Thanks bro!

@ Harjeev, Yogiii

That is very normal. Under most circumstances a 14kg cylinder should take in about 10kg of CNG. On the other hand a 12kg cylinder usually takes in about 8kg of CNG.

The best time to fill up is from 2200hrs to 0500hrs. As the pressure is maximum and no queue's.
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Old 6th July 2010, 10:04   #58
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Hi Maglev,
Nice Post and Review.

Even I am planning to get a CNG kit installed. If you could guide me in how to go about it.

I drive a 2005 Santro. Main reason to switch is to spend less on fuel (as pertol prices have skyrocketed and pinching my pockets these days )
Couple of things I would like to know from your end.

1. Does CNG kit installation affect car performance in terms of pickup and accelaration?
2. I have heard that CNG kit installed cars cant pull heavy loads especially in steep inclines/ ghat sections. Is it true?
3. What is the longevity of the CNG kit?

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

Drive safe.!
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Old 6th July 2010, 11:00   #59
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Hey Samreen,

Let me answer some of your queries till the time Maglev is away . I myself have been using CNG for quite some time now.

For your Performance queries, if the kit is installed by an experienced technician then the power drop is very negligible specially when you are driving without AC many a times you wont even notice or feel much of a diffrence. it is only when you start the AC then you feel a little bit sluggish but that is only on Lower RPM's.

About load pulling i have driven my car from Delhi to Shimla all on CNG with 4 people on board and i made it easily in fact to share an experience i even towed my other can once when it got stalled. so dont worry about load pulling maybe a sometime you need to keep the RPM a lil high and thats it.

Longevity of CNG kit, 1.10 Lakhs KM and still going strong

//Lucksin
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Old 6th July 2010, 14:01   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameern.85 View Post
Hi Maglev,
Nice Post and Review.

Even I am planning to get a CNG kit installed. If you could guide me in how to go about it.

I drive a 2005 Santro. Main reason to switch is to spend less on fuel (as pertol prices have skyrocketed and pinching my pockets these days )
Couple of things I would like to know from your end.

1. Does CNG kit installation affect car performance in terms of pickup and accelaration?
2. I have heard that CNG kit installed cars cant pull heavy loads especially in steep inclines/ ghat sections. Is it true?
3. What is the longevity of the CNG kit?

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

Drive safe.!
Most of your queries relies on two things. The kit you are going to use and the installer from where you are getting your kit installed. Since yours is a Santro, I suggest you to get in touch with some santro guys with CNG as Hyundai and TATA ECUs are very much sensitive to fuel changes and a slight mishap in installation may lead to an ECU failure. Marutis are much more immune to such issues. Whatever the installer says, an ECU failure may occur unless you are using the Master-Slave ECU based kit which is available only on Sequential Injection systems. I had issues with my Xeta ECU after converting to LPG like terrible backfires and misfires. I have a friend of mine who was using a Xing of which ECU was failed due to an LPG installation. Also, there are a lot of people who are successfully running converted vehicles for ages. So it all depends on the quality of installation and the tuning. Are you planning for SI kits by anyway ?
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