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Old 16th November 2011, 22:14   #106
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by car-o-phile View Post
Hello Maglev,

Thank you for the thread. it was very useful. I have a Chevrolet spark 2008 model, had a conversation with some fellow BHpians aho got their chevy CNGed and decided to go for it.

1. I contacted "Tara Dutt Automobiles" that you suggested.
2. He suggested me to go for Romano kit for 27K + 3.5K for RTO registration(which i believe is on a higher side).
3. Consulted my friends who got their cars (Santros, Accents, Balenos) CNGed and they suggested to go for Lovato.
4. You are a happy owner of a GNC kit.
5. Heard Tomasetto is good too, but came across a thread "Fake components in CNG kits" - particularlyjTomasetto kits and was a little, you can say scare, to go for CNG.
6. But contacted Chevy Delaers and they quoted BRC kit for 46K (inc everything)

Have done a research and couldn't get to a decision.
Need yours and if possible other expert BHPians' advices to get me out of this confusion.

Thanks for the appreciation.

Well choosing a kit is more dependent on legal factors rather than preference, You'll need to find out which kits are approved by the RTO for your car w.r.t. (Engine size, euro standard 1,2,3,4, etc) You can get any kit installed but legally your choice would not not be more than 2 or 3 companies.

I personally havent heard anything about the Romano at all. Try and find out if you can get a Tomasetto, tesmon or Lovato they'll be the easiest to repair just in case your away from the dealer as these kits are very common.

The BRC is recommended provided the price is ok with you. (This one is also recommended if your car's still under warranty)

Hope it helps.
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Old 16th November 2011, 23:18   #107
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by car-o-phile View Post
6. But contacted Chevy Delaers and they quoted BRC kit for 46K (inc everything)
BRC kits should be cheaper outside.

Check if these people have branches near your place
Rohan Automotive Equipments Private Limited

They install BRC kits.
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Old 17th November 2011, 20:22   #108
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by maglev View Post
Thanks for the appreciation.

Well choosing a kit is more dependent on legal factors rather than preference, You'll need to find out which kits are approved by the RTO for your car w.r.t. (Engine size, euro standard 1,2,3,4, etc) You can get any kit installed but legally your choice would not not be more than 2 or 3 companies.

I personally havent heard anything about the Romano at all. Try and find out if you can get a Tomasetto, tesmon or Lovato they'll be the easiest to repair just in case your away from the dealer as these kits are very common.

The BRC is recommended provided the price is ok with you. (This one is also recommended if your car's still under warranty)

Hope it helps.
Thank you again Maglev.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
BRC kits should be cheaper outside.

Check if these people have branches near your place
Rohan Automotive Equipments Private Limited

They install BRC kits.
Thank you carboy.



I checked with my Italian colleague and he recommended BRC (recommendation cam from FIAT CNG department)
and now you guys have suggested it too, and the Chevrolet dealers also use BRC. I will check its dealers near my place.
When Chevrolet itself is installing BRC for start than it should be the one approved by RTO.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 15:12   #109
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

Hi maglev,

Do you have to press the accelerator while starting your car in CNG mode or it starts normally?

My friend's CNG Swift starts only on pressing accelerator and cranking is also a bit longer than petrol mode.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 16:37   #110
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Hi maglev,

Do you have to press the accelerator while starting your car in CNG mode or it starts normally?

My friend's CNG Swift starts only on pressing accelerator and cranking is also a bit longer than petrol mode.
You should not start your car in CNG. The car should be started in petrol. In my car, after few kms I change to CNG either by pressing the accelerator.
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Old 8th February 2012, 19:33   #111
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

I am doing my first service after doing the CNG conversion. After doing the service, I will be taking it to the CNG guy to tune it again - it's an open loop BRC system. I was wondering if while driving from the service station to the CNG guy, I should drive on petrol or on CNG (Distance around 15 kms) - i.e. my question is if the service will disturb the CNG tuning?
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Old 8th February 2012, 19:58   #112
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

Hi Carboy,
How is your Swift doing post CNG Conversion and where did you get it done from. I am planning to convert mine into CNG.
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Old 8th February 2012, 20:45   #113
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
Hi Carboy,
How is your Swift doing post CNG Conversion and where did you get it done from. I am planning to convert mine into CNG.
No problems till now - it's 6-7 months.
I got the BRC kit conversion done by Greenglobe Mulund.

Last edited by carboy : 8th February 2012 at 20:46.
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Old 9th February 2012, 11:30   #114
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Hi maglev,

Do you have to press the accelerator while starting your car in CNG mode or it starts normally?

My friend's CNG Swift starts only on pressing accelerator and cranking is also a bit longer than petrol mode.
This is pretty normal, even my Ritz is running on CNG since last may, it requires a bit of tap on accelerator and the cranking takes longer than petrol mode.
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Old 19th March 2012, 17:26   #115
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

I have done almost 17.5k after the CNG conversion. Apart from two cracked airfilter casing and slight issue with idling, I haven't faced any major issue. The car was troubling me a bit with idling issue and was dying on me in bumper to bumper traffic. Took it to Installer on Saturday and asked them sort the issue. They cleaned the throttle body and the car is idling perfectly now.

PS: Finally got the CNG endorsed on the RC, will be getting the same endorsed on the insurance now.
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Old 20th March 2012, 00:40   #116
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by BANDHAV View Post
I have done almost 17.5k after the CNG conversion. Apart from two cracked airfilter casing and slight issue with idling, I haven't faced any major issue. The car was troubling me a bit with idling issue and was dying on me in bumper to bumper traffic. Took it to Installer on Saturday and asked them sort the issue. They cleaned the throttle body and the car is idling perfectly now.

PS: Finally got the CNG endorsed on the RC, will be getting the same endorsed on the insurance now.


NICE that you're happy, I cracked just one, air filter housing.

but why'd wait for so long (RC endorsement)? I'd suggest get it done asap.
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Old 20th March 2012, 03:25   #117
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by BANDHAV View Post
I have done almost 17.5k after the CNG conversion. Apart from two cracked airfilter casing and slight issue with idling, I haven't faced any major issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglev View Post
NICE that you're happy, I cracked just one, air filter housing.
Is there a relation between the cracked airfilter casing and the CNG conversion? What's the symptom of a cracked airfilter casing?
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Old 20th March 2012, 10:50   #118
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion

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Originally Posted by maglev View Post
NICE that you're happy, I cracked just one, air filter housing.
Yes, I am happy, all thanks to you, if not for your thread it would not have been easy for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maglev View Post
but why'd wait for so long (RC endorsement)? I'd suggest get it done asap.
Some serious procrastination on my part, I know I was trying my luck way to much. I am glad nothing bad happened during this time period either I would have been in serious trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Is there a relation between the cracked airfilter casing and the CNG conversion? What's the symptom of a cracked airfilter casing?
Though I am not very sure about the exact reason but this happened due to some un-burnt CNG during instant acceleration. I have cracked two during my 17.5 K mileage of CNG, not a very expensive part. MGP airfilter casing with new filter cost approx 1100 Rs, though I managed to source one for 750 rs through some other channel.

It's surely an additional expense but the kind of saving I am doing by running my car on CNG can surely take care of such small incidental expense.
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Old 28th May 2012, 23:24   #119
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I got a lovato closed loop kit installed by Sunil's team at Tara Dutt automobiles in Delhi ,for 27k in Oct,11. I am unimpressed by his expertise & quality of installation. Everytime the engine bay is washed, the car refuses to run on CNG !! The tachometer goes crazy and I end up with a blown airbox. The engine keeps firing crackers (traditional pataka sounds) every 2 seconds.

To this recurrent water cng issue :Mr. Sunil Dutt says ,"don't wash the engine bay,just clean with a cloth" !

Once,I had to replace the timing advancer after engine bay washing & on 2 occasions- the spark plugs !

And we say he is the best installer in Delhi ??
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Old 28th August 2013, 18:13   #120
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Default Re: Petrol to CNG conversion

I have been reading a lot about various discussions on CNG installation on internet but most of them dealt in parts. I thought of giving all the important information in simple language, in full at one place, so that all the facts about CNG installation and its settings become clear.

First of all understand that most of the CNG fitment centers are manned by uneducated businessman who have no background of auto engineering or any engineering, so do not expect them to educate you with finer details of your queries. Almost all the labourers who install your kits in fitment center are uneducated people who do not even know what they are doing. They just follow what was taught to them by the old or senior staff or learnt by themselves by experience. So, in short I want to say that you have to get educated yourself about the CNG fitment and tuning for peace of mind, else you will be making rounds of the firment center without getting clarifications.

Before you get the CNG kit installed, you should clearly ask about the pricing, type of kits like-open loop kit, closed loop kit or sequential kit, whether bill would be given against payment, whether all parts would be imported, if not then what parts will be Indian and what imported, and whether RTO endorsement is included in the price. Also be clear about the capacity of cylinder being fitted, commonly 12 Kg or 14 Kg.

The best kits are made in Argentina and Poland. Plenty of duplicates are available in India. Also note that after installation of the kit the fitment center will send his person with you to the gas station to fill gas for first time for setting and tuning the kit. There is a racket here also, the staff of fitment center will tell the gas station that the car owner does not have the metal plate that is mandatory for filing gas, and the gas filling staff will fleece you with a higher amount which will be shared by the gas station staff and the fitment center staff. You have to agree for this as you need to fill gas in your tank without metal plate. The metal plate is given free by the Mahanagar gas in Mumbai after the kit is endorsed by RTO on the RC book. But for a month you will get a small paper receipt, which you can show at the gas station while filing the gas.

The average that you get after installation will be 60% more than what you got in petrol in city driving. If car runs 10 Kms in one liter of petrol, it will run 16 Kms in 1 Kg of CNG if the tuning is optimum. If the setting and tuning is properly done then there will not be much power loss and no warning lights blinking. On highway, when driving the car at uniform speed of less than 50 Kms per hour you will get very good mileage, much higher than city driving.

CNG KIT

There are safety taps in the kit to open and close gas supply from cylinder and at filling unit. The CNG kits contains a storage tank connected to a reducer to reduce gas pressure, then to mixer that feeds mixture of gas and air to the injectors. The gas and air mixture is sent to the engine where spark from spark plug burns the gas to generate pressure that moves the piston and gives power/acceleration to the car. In this simple Open Loop kit, the tuning for best performance is done by setting the gas flow, RPM of engine and spark quality. That’s all. If you master these three, you will be able to tune your open loop CNG kit of your car on your own for best performance.

One very important aspect is that never leave your car unattended while the kit is being fitted. You will notice that the CNG fitment centre will try to get rid of you by saying that he will install after few hours after finishing the existing car, etc, etc. The moment you leave the fitment centre you will be taken for a ride. I have observed that the fitment centers do not have trained personal to install the gas tank in the boot. Instead of drilling they use fat nails and hammer the boot floor to make holes. This not only weakens the car floor but also causes harm to your wheel alignment ad other mechanisms. It is as good as impact from an accident…they hammer so badly. This is the reason many people complain that their car floors developed cracks after few months.

When the installation of tank is done, the fitment center never does the centring of the tank. Means that the tank has to be kept in such a way that the weight is distributed equally on both the sides of the center-line of the car. The tank has to be placed in such a way that it does not have more weight on either left or right side, else your car will have varied tyre erosion, and will also effect the suspension, steering system, etc. When you will turn the car in speed you will notice that on one side the car feels different than the other side. This is dangerous.

Those people who had LPG installed before switching to CNG will see plenty of big holes left after removal of LPG tank. The fitment center will not do anything about it. Most of you will not even know that such a hole exists as you were not present when the kit was being installed. If there are such holes then cut an old spoilt tyre tube, bigger than the hole size and dampen it with fevibond, leave it for at least 10 minutes and place it over the hole after cleaning the area. This can be easily done by yourself. If you wish you can get the area welded also. But for that you have to finish the gas and remove the empty tank or get it done before new cylinder is fitted.

HOW TO TUNE THE CNG KIT?

Manual tuning can be done in open loop system. For closed loop and sequential system tuning is done through computer.

You will notice that there is one big screw on the pipe that goes from reducer to mixer. This controls the amount of gas flow. There is another big screw on the reducer, which controls the RPM. These two are to be adjusted to get the best tuning.

First of all place both the screws on full open, means full unscrewed. Then ask someone to turn ignition key while you keep the accelerator on higher side. If the engine does not start, open the gas screw by 3 full turns. If engine does not start again open by 3 turns. Keep doing this till you get the engine going with accelerator pressed. Now release accelerator and keep on opening and closing the gas screw till you get fairly good engine running. Then set the RPM with the screw on the reducer for best idle. For good mileage set the gas to lean by closing the gas screw a little, and for more power set it to rich by opening the gas screw little.

Now switch on the AC. If the engine starts to stall, open the gas screw a little and then increase the RPM a little till you get good and sensitive, responsive acceleration. This will be the best setting if you wish to run your car more on AC.

ENGINE WARNING LIGHT?

There are good chances that you may see flickering engine warning light, or the light may come on and off. This indicates that your sensors are working well but the setting is defective. The defect can be in wiring, the timing advancer or loose spark plug connections. Mostly it is the power booster or timing advancer or oxygen sensor wire. So, check that first.

SEVERE LOSS IN POWER?

Every one wants their CNG car to run similar to petrol. But there is some loss in power always. To get the best power, use NGK spark plugs, keep the spark plug gaps to lower than .9 mm. Lowering the gap of spark plug is as good as advancing the timing. Spark plugs and timing advancer/power booster play a very important role in generating power. If not set up properly, you will not get best power and acceleration. You can slightly increase the gas and increase the RPM to get power, but the milage will suffer, and it is not the best practice. Sometimes using larger gas mixture unit helps. At times cleaning the injectors and exhaust also helps in gaining power if they are clogged.

WHAT IS TIMING ADVANCER?

This is a small unit that controls the spark time of the spark plug in relation to the movement of the piston. As CNG is not as dense as petrol and requires more burning time, it is required that the spark is generated little before when the full compression reaches so that by the time the compression is to its maximum the gas is fully burnt making maximum expansion and pushing the piston with more power. If the spark is not advanced it will not burn the full gas mixture and not generate more power and also leave some gas unburnt and you may see engine malfunction light on your dashboard. The advance timing is denoted as degrees. It really needs good experienced person to set the correct advance timing. Unluckily, most of the CNG kit fitment centers are unaware of the technicalities of advance timing.

In some original imported kits the timing advancer / power booster comes as part of the kit by default, while in some you have to buy as add on by paying extra. It costs between Rs 1, 000 to Rs 2, 500 depending on brand and quality. Cheap Chinese ones are also available.

CLOSED LOOP

When open loop fitment has more control over oxygen sensor and injectors, it is called closed loop. This gives little more milage but costs about Rs 2, 000 to 4, 000 more. This setup controls the flow of gas to the injectors as advised by oxygen sensor and control unit to gain more control, giving power and saving gas to little extent.

SEQUENTIAL

This is a fully controlled system having plenty of sensor controllers ( about 40 to 48 sensors) to control each and every move of engine, gas supply, mixing, etc. Nothing is set manually in this setup. One has to use computers to do the tuning. Once tuned, you have to never touch the settings. Your car will run as good as it was running on petrol with very little power loss. But the cost of this system is twice as that of open loop. The problem with this setup is that in case of any defect you have to visit the specialized fitment center only. Road side mechanics will be of no help. You will not be able to do tuning by yourself unless you have the software, its knowledge, and connectivity of your engine with your laptop to do the settings.

WHICH IS THE BEST FITMENT CENTRE

As I already told you, almost all are no good, even the Lovato authorized center (Eco Fuel Centre) in Thane is also a crook. There are many instances where he did not give bill against cash payment after fitment saying that bill will attract 12 % taxes. They brutally hammer your car for making holes. They never use drills and your car is bound to develop cracks after you use their services. They even try to first place few defective parts by taking a chance that if it works, they will get rid of the defective part and make some money. Their accountant is a corrupt fellow and tries to make money by asking amounts for extension of gas filing receipts if you did not get the metal plate. The gas date extension is done free of cost by Mahanagar gas staff who sits in the Fortune distributors office near Sahanai banquet hall in Thane (West). You have to just show him the expired receipt and he will make new one for you in 5 minutes, free of cost.

Same is the case with almost all fitment centers. The only way you can save your car is to be present and question them if you sense any mischief. The fitment of CNG kit does not take more than 4 hours. Most of the fitment centers will avoid your presence and will make various reasons to make you go away, but you stick there like a leech if you want to save your car from abuse or know what they are actually doing.

HOW MUCH IS THE COST OF FULLY IMPORTED CNG KIT

The cost of open loop is Rs 24, 000 to 27, 000 without RTO work.

The cost of closed loop will be Rs 2, 000 to 4, 000 more

The cost of sequential kit will be between Rs 35, 000 to 50, 000.

RTO endorsement will be Rs 2000. But if you want to get it done by yourself, the fitment center will give you all the documents and you can get it done from RTO for less than Rs 300.

You have to negotiate when deciding about the price. Be clear about tax, invoice, RTO endorsement charges, warranty, etc.

FILLING CNG:

You will receive a metal plate with embossed car registration number and kit details. Sometimes, the CNG filling stations may demand you to show this metal plate before they start filing your tank. So, always be clear that the fitment center will be giving you the metal plate free of cost.

The life of CNG gas cylinder is very good, but the government has made it mandatory to get it rechecked after every 3 years and get fitness certificate from the authorized cylinder checking station. You have to carry this fitness certificate in your car in case it is required to be shown with RC endorsement. But rarely any RTO checks this.
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