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Old 7th July 2010, 01:28   #1
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Default Accord V6 - The Quest for Better Handling

As some of you guys know, i have an accord v6 running a k&n typhoon. Its shoes have been upgraded to 225/50 r17 Yokohama Advan Sports.

Now, the accord has 2 weaknesses 1) the soft suspension 2) the brakes
The suspension is very soft, offering excellent ride quality but at the expense of handling. The brakes, are terrible from high speeds, too much judder.

I think the only reason i can afford to have some fun with the car is because of the brilliant grip from the Advans.

Brakes

Now what do i want? better braking, and handling, but of course at a price.
The price is around $400. ive decided to postpone my ICE upgrade for all this *runs away from audiophiles* (My music is the Typhoon screaming at 7000rpm)

What i intend on doing -
Ive done a bit of reading around, and ive come to the conclusion that the stock rotors are crap, too much judder, luckily they stop the car well enough inspite of the judder.

So i want to do a relatively cheap upgrade to my brakes without spending a huge amount on a big brake kit etc.
Brembo Replacement Rotor
These Brembo replacement rotors are a perfect fit, 50$ a rotor and are supposed to be quite a bit better than the stock ones without any juddering. This is because these are one piece, and the stock ones are made from 2 pieces of steel.
I think i will upgrade the rotors only up front. Do you think i should upgrade the rear too?

And to compliment the Rotor Upgrade im thinking of getting these brake pads, front and rear.
Akebono Street Performance Pads
All the reviews ive heard have said that these Akebono pads are better than EBC, which are overrated. And that they provide good bite even when cold.

I cant loose out on practicality with these mods, i need the braking in traffic to have good bite too, i should have to floor the brake pedal to get it to stop. Im not looking for crazy braking, but i want better than stock, with a better brake pedal feel.

Coming to the Suspension

The car handles like a boat around corners and is no match for the V6 engine. I need to do something about this soon. Very soon.
I cant pay $1200 for coilovers, so im looking for a cheaper solution in which my handling will improve at least marginally.
Eibach Pro-Kit Spring Set
These eibach springs are what im thinking about. now the golden question.
Will only these springs give me any improvement in handling?
The lower the front by 1.5" and the rear by 1". i can live with that, there are never more than 4 people in my car, normally 1 or 2. And i can drive carefully if the ride becomes a little stiffer.

My car has done only 10xxx Kms so i dont think i need a shock change. But there are shocks such as Koni which are like $150 a shock and other ones like KYB which are $70 a shock.
KYB GR-2 Shock

Now do you guys think any of these will make any sense at all? or will i just be wasting money? Remember i dont expect it to handle like an F1 car after these, i just want a noticeable improvement. And an increase in safety.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 7th July 2010 at 01:37.
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Old 7th July 2010, 01:58   #2
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The springs alone will not give you the handling. In fact, all you'll get is a boat which has lower GC. You need better dampers at the very least. Better option would be a suspension kit with matched dampers and springs or the best option being coilovers.

Brembo blanks are a good choice. As for pads, look for Hawk, AXXIS and Endless.
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Old 7th July 2010, 02:08   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
The springs alone will not give you the handling. In fact, all you'll get is a boat which has lower GC. You need better dampers at the very least. Better option would be a suspension kit with matched dampers and springs or the best option being coilovers.

Brembo blanks are a good choice. As for pads, look for Hawk, AXXIS and Endless.
But the lower GC should help a little bit anyway, shouldnt it? like i said, no way i can spend $1200 on coilovers. And even if i do change the shocks, getting Koni's will cost about $600 but if i get KYB it will cost around $200.
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Old 7th July 2010, 02:16   #4
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I saw this on the forum a few nights ago can't remember if it was a post or an ad though. Might be the stuff that you are looking for ULTRA RACING - INDIA

I have no professional knowledge of this stuff, just that I read your post while the above was still fresh in my mind.
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Old 7th July 2010, 09:03   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
But the lower GC should help a little bit anyway, shouldnt it? like i said, no way i can spend $1200 on coilovers. And even if i do change the shocks, getting Koni's will cost about $600 but if i get KYB it will cost around $200.

Immortalz is right, lowering the car will definitely affect the dynamics but you cannot predict how. Getting the entire suspension kit will be much better, than getting one by one.

Pramod
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Old 7th July 2010, 12:14   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
But the lower GC should help a little bit anyway, shouldnt it? like i said, no way i can spend $1200 on coilovers. And even if i do change the shocks, getting Koni's will cost about $600 but if i get KYB it will cost around $200.
@Akshay, i would suggest not to go for springs, rather get a good set of dampers. Why, as it is mostly thought that springs are a better bet for better handling than dampers, whereas its the direct opposite. Its the dampers that control how the spring should behave, so if you have a stiffer spring than what the damper can take then the resulting chassis flex will have a long term effect on the car, in worst scenarios, chassis cracks or bends at strategic points where the max force of damping and rebounds affect.

If you have lower and harder springs it might not be a good match for the dampers that you will install, resulting in faster wear and tear. If you do want harder springs then go for coilovers as the springs and dampers are optimised for perfect synchronised action.

I would say go for a good set of dampers and then see how the car handles. There are many options available for Honda's in the aftermarket business. Don't go for Koni's as other than their top spec products the rest are way inferior to the base line products of other companies like DMS, Bilstein etc.

Would suggest you look at Honda forum's, especially Australian Honda forum's (as they have the closest conditions to Indian roads).
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Old 7th July 2010, 12:59   #7
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You could go with a stiff anti-roll bar and a proper 4 point strut brace at the front for big improvements in handling. Then choose the suspension upgrades according to your budget. Always best to change springs and dampers at the same time IMO.
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Old 7th July 2010, 15:48   #8
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why don't you try out custom stiffening and use it with stock springs. I don't know much..but my city works well with this combo.
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Old 7th July 2010, 16:15   #9
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Our Accord is the USDM Accord. You'll be better off looking at North American forums for information. Australia has the same JDM Civics we have, but our car is nearly identical to the USDM EX which gets the R18 engine and rear disc brakes.

Lowering the car will help straight line high speed dynamics, but do remember that by lowering the car, you are reducing the travel (the working length) of the stock dampers. You'll blow them in no time at all and they won't be working optimally either. Suspension is a symphony of many components, closely matched.

Don't change just the springs.

A stiffer ARB will let you run softer springs with the dampers, letting you have a softer ride while still reducing body roll in the corners. However, ARBs put serious pressure on parts like end links. Do your research on whether you need reinforcement there.
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Old 7th July 2010, 16:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
why don't you try out custom stiffening and use it with stock springs. I don't know much..but my city works well with this combo.
I dont want to mess with the stock suspension, since if i have a problem with the aftermarket i can go back to stock.




Anyway, thanks a lot guys. Immortalz just like you mentioned, the lowered springs will wear out the stock shocks in no time. I have been speaking to a few people, especially Viper who helped me understand all this. And i have decided to NOT go for only those springs right now, and when i do upgrade i will probably go with springs and shocks, or a coilover set (D2 or equivalent). Right now i dont think i have the budget for coilovers, so i spoke to the gentleman who runs this -
ULTRA RACING - INDIA
He said he will receive his shipment in a week or so and can only tell me prices then, but he expects it to be around 20k maybe.
If you see that link it will show what all is available for the accord (CM5).

Do you guys think getting those products from ultra racing will make a difference to my cars handling and stability?

I guess i will get the brakes around mid august, no one seems to have said anything about them so i guess they should be fine.

Also i have read about on north american forums like v6performance.net and driveaccord.net and i have read all positive reviews about akebono, and mixed reviews about hawk.
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Old 8th July 2010, 00:59   #11
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Hawk has rave reviews on Civic forums, which is why I recommended them. If you get something like the HP+, they WILL squeal when they are cold. They are nearly track spec pads marketed as street performance. This causes quite a bit of frustration for people.

I am not sold on the effectiveness of chassis reinforcement on modern cars unless you are raceprepping them. Modern monocoques are seriously rigid.
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Old 8th July 2010, 01:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
I am not sold on the effectiveness of chassis reinforcement on modern cars unless you are raceprepping them. Modern monocoques are seriously rigid.
Word. But the reduced body-roll is really really effective in giving more confidence to the driver. A stiff springs/damper/coilover setup is definitely not for everyone. I'm personally looking into getting ARBs made for my OHC for when the track near Mumbai gets built.
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Old 8th July 2010, 10:23   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
I am not sold on the effectiveness of chassis reinforcement on modern cars unless you are raceprepping them. Modern monocoques are seriously rigid.
I would agree and disagree with that. Yes modern day monocoques are seriously rigid, but its rigid enough only for moderate stress use. For e.g. my friend's cousin who lives in the States used to own a Mazda RX-8 which he used to drive on track days, the engine needed rebuilds after 2 or 3 track day events. This is the basic problem with stock cars, they are not built to take on the harshest environments. Even if akshay isn't going to race his Accord, but he would avoid any unfortunate issues.

If a stiffer than stock ARB or Strut braces are installed then its advisable to TIG weld the points where these stiffer components are likely to provide more stress to the chassis.

My only point is that on every forum we show what can and cannot be done, which is good, but there is no mention of long term effects of such mods. So to prevent with a not so expensive mod is better than going bankrupt trying to rectify the after effect. If Akshay is wanting to keep the car for the long run then i would say that he needs to prepare his car in the best way.

Also if one cannot afford to backup something new in the car then don't go for that new thing, rather wait than repent.
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Old 8th July 2010, 11:04   #14
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What do you guys think about these?
D2 Racing RS Coilover System - D2-H19 - ClubIntegra.com Store - Performance Integra Parts

Of course these are in a different price band altogether, but im sure they would be a million times better than the chassis stiffening.
Also they would probably make the car ride smoother, instead of being all over the place (Its really not that bad, only with very spirited driving). But i cant really lose out on the ride too much i.e it cant get too stiff after any of this because mumbai roads are terrible, and with a stiff ride my car will start rattling (After all it is a Jap) like crazy and so will i.

And if you notice the last couple of accidents that have come in the papers have been in Accords, that kinda scares me and i know that the car has relatively bad handling.

So the D2s would be the ideal choice? Hmmm now lets see around when i can get them.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 8th July 2010 at 11:06.
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Old 8th July 2010, 13:40   #15
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And if you notice the last couple of accidents that have come in the papers have been in Accords, that kinda scares me and i know that the car has relatively bad handling.
I hope you knew about Accord's handling when you bought one. A car's handling cannot be changed by replacing just one or two parts. Sure, a set of good dampers and springs improve handing to some extent but you end up loosing your sleep in the process. My suggestion would be to accept the fact that the Accord is a boat and learn how to use it effectively. After all the Accrod is never intended for fast cornering, they are meant for cruising on open, straight and wide roads.

If you still want loose your sleep, I agree with others here and strongly advise you to replace both dampers and springs and use uprated ARBs and links. How about Koni FSD's? But I heard they wear out faster on heavier cars.

Sorry if I sound like a pessimist but I am speaking out of personal experiences.

Last edited by novice : 8th July 2010 at 13:43.
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