Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th December 2005, 13:01   #1
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default Fading brakes

Ever driven on a hilly stretch and used the brakes instead of engine breaking. you will feel that your brakes will become weaker and weaker. Giving some rest to the brake system will sort the problem.
Now this brake frading has not much to do with brake pads, its about the braking system.
Some cars with good brake system like the forrester will show brake fading only on hills after 10-15 continious hairpin brakings. Small cars show fading after usualy 4-5 brake sequences.

The Indica(brand new) will show some fading after 3 hard stops. My indica which is 55000+ old shows fading after 1-2 medium braking sequences. Changing pads wont help here as they are already brand new. I just wanted to know what repairs are done to recitfy the problem. I tried looking for something like "Brake system overhaul" on the Tata indica service sheet pasted at workshops, but could not find it. I will also mention that my brake fluid is topped up and there are no leakages in the system, its just that its damn old any bangalore city traffic puts a lot of pressure on the brakes.

Can anyone here shed some light on the repairs undertaken for rectifying this problem and how much will it cost on the indica. I once remember hearing that the scheduled time for complete brake system is 60K-70K kms and costs about 3-4K. But I do not want to go uninformed to the workshop as for mechanics poor brakes mean replace "brake pads".

Last edited by tsk1979 : 5th December 2005 at 13:02.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 13:09   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Generally its the brake pads that are the culprits, my accent was having such issues on the ghats on a recent drive to goa....It varies from car to car as the quality of the pads is different.

Its generally when the brake pads get too hot...they loose their ability to bite onto the disc...once they cool down, they become ok. You say your brake pads are new...is it that the quality of tata brake pads is going down?

Ask them to bleed the entire brake system and refill instead of a mere top-up. Thats all i can think of.

EDIT
Another thing...is there any difference in the brake pedal feel now (after getting the new pads) as compared to when the car was new.

Drifter

Last edited by drifter : 5th December 2005 at 13:17.
drifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 13:18   #3
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,394 Times
Default

Quote:
Can anyone here shed some light on the repairs undertaken for rectifying this problem and how much will it cost on the indica.
Your brakes lose their effectiveness because of over-heating. My 1996 Esteem suffers badly from this syndrome and Maruti tried to correct it in the 1998 Esteem with ventilated brakes.

Best thing - Use engine braking.

GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 13:22   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Tsk is your indica the v2 or pre-v2? V2 had ventilated discs. Even overheating fluid can cause your brakes to act funny.

Drifter
drifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 13:31   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

My guess is that your brake fluid is boiling...does your pedal feel spongy when brake fade occurs? Reason could be water in the fluid which causes the boiling point of the fluid to fall...once it starts boiling, the fluid looses its characteristics and your brakes become inefficient. Only way to correct it is to refill with brand new brake fluid.

Drifter
drifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 14:44   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

The brake pedal gets very hard. I have to apply more force. Infact after heavy braking the force applied is same as when engine is switched off. My brake fluid hasn't been bled for a very long time, and since past few days temparatures have fallen sharply to 5 degree levels. This could have caused moisture condensation.

As for V2, yes mine is V2. Going by turbo indica road tests, the testers have noted that after 3-4 heavy braking sequences, the brakes start fading.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 14:48   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Yup then its most likely the fluid...get it refilled and see if theres any difference. The problem should be solved.

Drifter
drifter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 14:49   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

Thankx for the help guys, will do that!
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 15:41   #9
BHPian
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai / Goa / UK
Posts: 88
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drifter
Yup then its most likely the fluid...get it refilled and see if theres any difference. The problem should be solved.

Drifter
I agree with drifter... get the brake fluid replaced.

I once watched this process done at an authorised service station.
The mechanics drained the old fluid, filled some fresh fluid, pumped the brakes for a while, drained that and then filled fresh brake fluid again.

When I asked why they did that, they said it was to flush out any water or other contaminents that might be in the system.

Dont know if thats the standard procedure, but it seems logical.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 17:49   #10
BANNED
 
viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,769
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
Your brakes lose their effectiveness because of over-heating. My 1996 Esteem suffers badly from this syndrome and Maruti tried to correct it in the 1998 Esteem with ventilated brakes.

Best thing - Use engine braking.

GTO
Hey Guys,

I had the same problem in my esteem to which I found a permanent cure for. They worked superb thereafter and hardly cost anything. It takes approx a day to do the same.

Viper
viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 17:51   #11
BHPian
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai / Goa / UK
Posts: 88
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper

I had the same problem in my esteem to which I found a permanent cure for. They worked superb thereafter and hardly cost anything. It takes approx a day to do the same.
Thats great Viper!
So whats the cure ? What did you do ? or rather, get done to the brakes ?
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 18:03   #12
BANNED
 
viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,769
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

I got the disc cross drilled so that they dissispate heat faster thereby effectively eliminating heat build up which causes fading. However the same may not work well for cars fitted with wheel caps which prevent air flow.

Viper
viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 18:40   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
speedsatya's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: bangalore/manga
Posts: 3,161
Thanked: 706 Times
Default

the newer esteems come with ventilated discs...so u need not do that drilling ...nowadays almost all the cars including the alto come with ventilated discs...sad the zen still doesnt have one
speedsatya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 18:59   #14
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,394 Times
Default

Quote:
I got the disc cross drilled so that they dissispate heat faster thereby effectively eliminating heat build up
Was it really that effective on the Esteem, Viper? Gotta think of it for the Vtec then.

But wait, first the upgraded rubber

GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2005, 19:17   #15
BANNED
 
viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,769
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

@ GTO - take my word they worked like magic.

@ Satya - This process works even better on ventilated discs. Only ventilated discs dont solve the fading as most people are facing.
viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2013 Skoda Octavia TDI: Headlight Assembly Fading @2500kms vikramv007 Technical Stuff 46 26th December 2014 17:50
Sports car fad fading away says BMW sales chief Tushar The International Automotive Scene 3 14th November 2014 18:24
Retarder in Volvo B7R buses (air-brakes / jake brakes) sfilinto Commercial Vehicles 12 30th March 2010 00:55
Pulsar 180 - color fading issue asriyazudeen Motorbikes 14 23rd November 2007 19:31


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks