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Old 20th October 2010, 14:19   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anekho View Post
Just curious, how much does it cost to test a car on a dyno?
There you go, as mentioned by rehaan in the dyno thread

"A single run is currently quoted at 3,000/- Rs, and better deals are given for those who plan to use it more often."
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Old 20th October 2010, 14:25   #17
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Very interesting flat torque and (naturally) peak power almost right at the top rpm!
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Old 20th October 2010, 14:43   #18
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Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Common , whats without pics( a video too), the car all strapped at the DYNO run ?
Sorry

Will get pics & videos for the next round.

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Also if you could break up costs for future/knowledge purposes .
Full Stainless Steel Exhaust : 17 - 20 grand (depending on where you get it from). I think Automech's the best in the business

K&N Typhoon : MRP is 17K. But its easy to get the same for 13K from dealers

Race Dynamics / Remap : 30K

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What about brakes ,suspension and tires ?
Best part about the Civic / Hondas is the after-market support. Lots of bolt on stuff available. I'm happy with the stock brakes, though upgrades to tyres / suspension is in line.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If you want to improve low end, won't a performance exhaust do the opposite.
As per the advice of Psycho & Automech, I've gone for 1.75 dia pipes. Quality of implementation is also very important. Low end 30 - 40% improved. Await a full report.

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Any specific reason why civic headers can't be upgraded?
Headers integrated onto the block, unlike in most other cars. Too bad, because I've seen with the OHC what a set of mean headers can do.

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Also, what about iridium sparks and better wires
Performance spark plugs & wires do only one thing : Contribute to the tuner's kitty.

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Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
@ GTO - are you planning for a catback exhaust or just a straight pipe with an end can?
Straight pipe + muffler.

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Originally Posted by anekho View Post
Just curious, how much does it cost to test a car on a dyno?
KS Motorsports generally gives you the first run free, and charges 1,500 - 2,500 per run (depending on how many you want). His website stated 10 runs for for 13,500 once, but I can't seem to find that link now.

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
As for port polish...lol. If he does do it, the dyno charts will tell a nice story. Ask Jitu or Paras for the details
Can you please elaborate? So it's a no-go for the Civic? Or any car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorpsycho View Post
GTO ,

The torque band looks flat, yet you say the low end response is wanting. Can you help me understand why and is the low end response a function of the power developed at the that RPM?

Thanks
Motorpsycho, dyno graphs are one thing, and real world performance entirely another. Believe me, I've yet to drive a car with worse low-end throttle response than the Civic. A stock Civic is completely dead at 1,000 rpms.
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Old 20th October 2010, 15:21   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorpsycho View Post
The torque band looks flat, yet you say the low end response is wanting. Can you help me understand why and is the low end response a function of the power developed at the that RPM?
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Motorpsycho, dyno graphs are one thing, and real world performance entirely another. Believe me, I've yet to drive a car with worse low-end throttle response than the Civic. A stock Civic is completely dead at 1,000 rpms.
If you carefully see the graph, you will notice that the torque developed @ 2100 rpm is just around 20Nm, which is not enough to pull a car like Civic, which weighs much more than a tonne.

Last edited by Daewood : 20th October 2010 at 15:22.
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Old 20th October 2010, 15:30   #20
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Im going to keep a close eye on this thread. Maybe I should go and get my car dynoed too, except that I cant test it out stock.

When is your K&N expected?
http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-1013_dyno.pdf
Here is the official K&N dyno sheet for the civic. It shows a 5HP increase. Will be interesting to see how much you get. Their stock HP too was 116.5HP.

Interesting interesting...
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Old 20th October 2010, 17:33   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Can you please elaborate? So it's a no-go for the Civic? Or any car?
Multiple things. Apologies if a few toes are stepped on and/or egos are bruised. I am a hobbyist at heart and do not wish to compete with anyone.

Your head will go to Mahesh; almost all tuners send their heads to him. I will not talk about Mahesh's skill or knowledge as my interaction with him has been minimal (had done up my valve seats, 3-angle valve job and a head-shave (just for smoothening the surface and getting maybe a 0.02 bump up in compression since I had worked on my combustion chamber which had increased the volume a tiny bit which would reduce the compression). He is a genuinely nice guy who takes interest in your build. And he has good equipment which is a rarity in India.

But the work is done by his mechanics/labourers who only concentrate on increasing the port volume without caring what else is running on the car or future plans. According to a mutual friend with a popular OHC, and in his own words, "they port heads like road labourers". I saw them working on a head on my last trip over there a few months ago. I felt sorry for the owner of that particular head.

Honda engines, and heads in particular, have been developed with quite a few smart tricks to aid in increasing flow velocity and inducing swirl (swirl and velocity are holy grails in head work) and fighting reversion. It looks like an obstruction to an untrained illiterate eye but these ideas have been developed and tested over decades by rockstar race engine builders and scientists with PhDs in the US and Europe. How do you think Honda has always been able to extract big amounts of power out of tiny displacement engines. If you can spare time, google "honda vtec history" and read the article on Honda's website. And that was in 1989. Your engine has been developed by the same group of people, just a generation younger at the most. And these obstructions are "polished" and/or "smoothened out" without any knowledge of their function.

Such a job might (I say might because it will be entirely coincidental) increase the top end power a bit, but that is because of the larger ports and nothing else. Apart from that, you will be stuck with a useless head that will, in most probability, flow worse than stock at lower RPMs.

Unless you have complete specifications (port diameters, angles, roof heights, etc) and details of an already done-up head in the US/Europe/Japan with flowbench information, best to skip it altogether.

There are better things to improve in the engine.
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Old 20th October 2010, 17:40   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorpsycho View Post
The torque band looks flat, yet you say the low end response is wanting. Can you help me understand why ....
Take a look at the graph again. The accurate reading starts from around 2500-2700.

A lot of the civics lack of throttle response is well below that RPM.

cya
R
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Old 20th October 2010, 19:17   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Im going to keep a close eye on this thread. Maybe I should go and get my car dynoed too
Your 221 BHP rocket will be fun to dyno. Want to go together this saturday? We can dyno both (my Civic + free flow too) together. PM if that day works for you.

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When is your K&N expected?
Errr, good question. It's been 5 weeks since I've ordered it and still no sign!!!

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Your head will go to Mahesh; almost all tuners send their heads to him. I will not talk about Mahesh's skill or knowledge as my interaction with him has been minimal (had done up my valve seats, 3-angle valve job and a head-shave (just for smoothening the surface and getting maybe a 0.02 bump up in compression since I had worked on my combustion chamber which had increased the volume a tiny bit which would reduce the compression). He is a genuinely nice guy who takes interest in your build. And he has good equipment which is a rarity in India.
True. Mahesh is A+ with his head work.

So the issue is with the quality of labour at his place. What if he does it himself?

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best to skip it altogether.
Unless we find the right guy for the job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
The accurate reading starts from around 2500-2700.
Ah, there you go! Bingo.
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Old 20th October 2010, 21:06   #24
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Thanks GTO and Rehaan ,

I was unaware of the band at which the Civic actually starts to move , but does just a couple of hundred RPM's make such a difference? Sorry if I sound n00bish.

Thanks

Last edited by motorpsycho : 20th October 2010 at 21:07. Reason: Spell check
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Old 20th October 2010, 22:21   #25
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Wait a minute, If these figures are from a STOCK civic, can somebody explain how this matches with the remapped civics dyno figure?? The total BHP in both the cases is almost the same ~117 BHP. I am in a fix here, because I am running the same remap which is giving me a gain of 0.3 BHP.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ivic-r18a.html
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Honda Civic Dyno Run no.1 - Stock-graph-civic-no-filter.jpg  

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Old 20th October 2010, 22:46   #26
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Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
Wait a minute, If these figures are from a STOCK civic, can somebody explain how this matches with the remapped civics dyno figure?? The total BHP in both the cases is almost the same ~117 BHP
Well what I could make out is that the remap has improved the low-end torque but not the peak bhp.
In GTO's graph, the torque crosses 80 (as in y-axis label) @2200rpm, while in the remapped dyno graph, the torque crosses 80 @ ~1800rpm! So, it has a bit of improved driveability in the city unless there is "zero error" to be adjusted for in the beginning of the graph, somehow.

@GTO, will be glued to your thread - was waiting for your mods on the Civic for long :-) Good luck with the FFE!

Last edited by lancer_rit : 20th October 2010 at 22:48.
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Old 21st October 2010, 01:46   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
Wait a minute, If these figures are from a STOCK civic, can somebody explain how this matches with the remapped civics dyno figure??
Strictly speaking from the numbers in the graph, your remap doesn't seem to be doing any good.

Look for yourself:
Torque ........ Stock(RPM) ........ Remapped(RPM)
20 .............. 400 ..................... NA
40 .............. 600 ..................... NA
60 .............. 600-650 ............... 1300
80 .............. 800-900 ............... 1600
100..............1200 ..................... 4000

Max Torque: Between 4K-5K RPM in both the machines. Clearly any decent torque available is only after 2000 RPM, unlike the stock civic that hits 100 at as low as 1200RPM (80 comes even lower)!!!

Something isn't right here. The stock curves for both Torque and BHP seem to suggest a more responsive engine & if GTO is complaining about low end Torque with these figures...
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Old 21st October 2010, 03:48   #28
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did you check the wheel diameter on both the civics which are in comparision over here,that seems to make a difference on overall output on karan's dyno i believe,cheers..!
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Old 21st October 2010, 08:49   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
Wait a minute, If these figures are from a STOCK civic, can somebody explain how this matches with the remapped civics dyno figure?? The total BHP in both the cases is almost the same ~117 BHP. I am in a fix here, because I am running the same remap which is giving me a gain of 0.3 BHP.
Manan,

The car that was dynoed was running 225/45/17 wheels. Rim & tyre size does play a role on dyno readings. Also that reading does not necessarily say that your car is giving the same output. It could give out more or less depending on the engine & tune condition of your car.


Whilst comparing make sure that both cars are identical in all ways.

Viper

Last edited by Rehaan : 21st October 2010 at 14:20. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 21st October 2010, 09:30   #30
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I do not see any remapped dyno figures. GTO has stated that he is putting out stock data. The remap data will follow.
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