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Old 1st November 2010, 23:10   #91
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A few words about the so called remap.

Yes i had gotten it done quite some time back and am really enjoying the car.The low end torque is amazing.you can just let the clutch off at idle and pick it up from there.No clutch slipping required at all.The low end and mid range power has increased quite a lot.just a slight shove of the accelerator and the car lunges forward.overtaking is now a breeze.hilly roads with inclines can be taken in 3rd gear at close to 2000 rpm.
and yes the top end rpm performance is absolutely awesome too.like i said.Its a monster now.especially in cold weather.with cooler air flowing into it.

These are the observations after taking the car up and down to delhi and chandigarh numerous times.Especially a week back when i did the complete delhi-dehradun route in 3 hours and 10 minutes flat! now those who have seen this route would understand what kind of a new record that it.its 250 kms of UP highway.

Also touching high speeds is easier.very much easier than before.
About the mods on the car other than this is only a UNI filter attached to a short ram air intake.I had an exhaust made by afzal sometime back but was so sick of the constant drone on the highways that i took it out about 6 months back and its on the stock exhaust.

the wheels and tires again are stock because of the bad road conditions.nothing beats the aspect ratio of the stock tires on bad roads.nothing!


Now about the remap.The first time since manan told me about the remap and had let me drive the car i was a bit apprehensive whether it was a remap or a tinkering with the ecu connections.

Because when you see that there is a remap available for every car and bike on the planet there has to be something wrong.How can it be possible for a tuner to have the remap of every petrol engine in the world.Also how can the local parameters like altitude etc be ignored? and how can the same petrol engines with different mods like exhausts and filters etc. have the same remap? its not possible! PERIOD

I understand that a remap is the changing of the fuel amounts at different throttle positions and different rpms.
It is also in some cases changing the ignition retard/advance values at different throttle positions and different rpms.
it becomes a matrix and this is what is loaded.
i have been a member of a lot of bike forums and have been seeing people spending hundreds of dollars on dynoing thier bikes for the perfect map! they don't go about installing the same map for all the same bikes.i have seen even different zx12r's with same mods getting different maps.thats how much a difference an engine can make.

No two bikes can be similar!

No two engines can be similar!

so how can someone offer universal remaps for every car on the planet?

Also when i asked particularly that i don't want the rev limit to be extended but i just want the remap they i was said it cannot be done.Why? those are different things.i mean how is a map connected to the rev limit.They are different things on my power commander.they are different on a megasquirt.they are different on every aftermarket or OE ecu in this world.

So basically there is catch here.This is NOT a remap.this is tinkering with the ECU.why does an ecu have to be opened up if it has to be remapped.It can be done using the stock connectors.thats how programmers of the OE company do.this is because some values have to be changed.

The ecu has to be fooled that the engine is revving at 800 rpm lower than it is.this explains the increase in rev limit.this makes the give a different set of fuel and ignition values to the engine.and then there have been some other changes too to the ecu.All these combined give the car the performance it does now.
No one wants to admit it as all those who know the trade secret want to cash in on it as much as possible.

But then there are some who share the knowledge because they feel its cheating.


This is where we in India loose out.No transparency.you don't know whats going to happen to your car unless it just busts open.
And then there are the users.No one wants to admit that because of this stupid remap you cannot use regular gas because the car then starts to knock.
No one wants to admit that it really starts knocking in the heat.
No one wants to admit that they have made a mistake by believing that this was a remap.


Yes its done wonders to the car but still its not a remap.Its a "jugaad".

I am really not surprised at the dyno figures of the remap and the stock car.i also don't know wether they are caliberated the same way or not as dyno figures and the scale of the graph can be changed as the user pleases.

Whether this car makes more power or not, I still vouch by the performance gain.But i will also stand up against the belief that its a remap.IT IS NOT.Its a jugaad.



Edit: Also whether its value for money for the cost at 32k for the remap is a subjective question.when i get all the knocking in the car i really curse myself at getting the remap and then there are the days like the recent run which had no knocking and was a absolute hoot to drive, i was happy and considered it money well spent.

Last edited by navpreet318 : 1st November 2010 at 23:13.
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Old 1st November 2010, 23:53   #92
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Woah. I used to believe they were actually changing the maps on these ECUs. LOL. If what you described is true, the "remap" should not be costing him more than a few hundred bucks, a couple of thousand at the most.

Last edited by Technocrat : 2nd November 2010 at 03:04. Reason: Please avoid quoting long posts specially if they are on same page, thanks
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Old 2nd November 2010, 01:25   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I don't understand why Honda had to take this route when they know enthusiasts will be part of their customer base
For the 8th gen Civic, Honda has offered the Si/TypeR version with 200 bhp K20 engine in most of the markets at a relatively affordable price(for a 100bhp/ltr engine). For that reason, the R18 has been left alone both by Honda as well as the after-market.

Last edited by Mpower : 2nd November 2010 at 01:44.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 09:14   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
If its not too much of an effort, could you post pics of the engine bay ? I am keen to see how Automech made the downpipe.The mouth where the headers meet the downpipe has a weird shape right ?
Sure, here's a shot. Please excuse the quality, taken from my phone cam:

Honda Civic Dyno Run no.1 - Stock-23102010428.jpg

@ Navpreet : Nice, very informative post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
For the 8th gen Civic, Honda has offered the Si/TypeR version with 200 bhp K20 engine in most of the markets at a relatively affordable price(for a 100bhp/ltr engine). For that reason, the R18 has been left alone both by Honda as well as the after-market.
Yup. But what about countries where the k20 is not sold?!!
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Old 2nd November 2010, 10:10   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sure, here's a shot. Please excuse the quality, taken from my phone cam:

Attachment 447666

@ Navpreet : Nice, very informative post!



Yup. But what about countries where the k20 is not sold?!!
Thanks for the prompt post GTO. Was the port matched ? Somehow I think the pipe is smaller in diameter compared to the diameter of the port.I could be wrong,please correct me if I am mistaken.
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Old 4th November 2010, 21:40   #96
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Nice tease, eagerly waiting for the detailed report and dyno charts...
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Old 4th November 2010, 23:53   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677 View Post
Nice tease, eagerly waiting for the detailed report and dyno charts...
Its already posted here on This Thread (Honda Civic Dyno Run no.2 - With performance exhaust)
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Old 6th November 2010, 22:42   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
Well, I have spoken to him, when I read a thread about his remaps in Kolkatta.
Whatever happened to that thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
A few words about the so called remap.
...
Also when i asked particularly that i don't want the rev limit to be extended but i just want the remap they i was said it cannot be done.Why? those are different things.i mean how is a map connected to the rev limit.They are different things on my power commander.they are different on a megasquirt.they are different on every aftermarket or OE ecu in this world.

So basically there is catch here.This is NOT a remap.this is tinkering with the ECU.why does an ecu have to be opened up if it has to be remapped.It can be done using the stock connectors.thats how programmers of the OE company do.this is because some values have to be changed.

The ecu has to be fooled that the engine is revving at 800 rpm lower than it is.this explains the increase in rev limit.this makes the give a different set of fuel and ignition values to the engine.and then there have been some other changes too to the ecu.All these combined give the car the performance it does now.
No one wants to admit it as all those who know the trade secret want to cash in on it as much as possible.

But then there are some who share the knowledge because they feel its cheating.
....
Yes its done wonders to the car but still its not a remap.Its a "jugaad".
...
Whether this car makes more power or not, I still vouch by the performance gain.But i will also stand up against the belief that its a remap.IT IS NOT.Its a jugaad.
Interesting. What about idling?

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Sutripta
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Old 10th November 2010, 18:56   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
.........
Interesting. What about idling?

Regards
Sutripta

Idling is normal.This is because idling is controlled by another circuit on the ECU.
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Old 10th November 2010, 20:41   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
The ecu has to be fooled that the engine is revving at 800 rpm lower than it
How do you fool an ECU when it comes to rpm?

Idling will/ may be controlled by a different airflow path/ different actuators/ different subroutines, but controlled nonetheless. It will be controlled to the wrong rpm then.

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Old 11th November 2010, 11:39   #101
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Ask the one who did it.ask a few tuners in bangalore.they have explained how to fool the ecu and how we get fooled by the increased rev limit.

Its a signal.controlled by voltage.It can be tinkered with as and how much one wants.
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Old 11th November 2010, 20:47   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Ask the one who did it.ask a few tuners in bangalore.they have explained how to fool the ecu and how we get fooled by the increased rev limit.
This I can understand, and have no problems with. Easy enough to spoof an analog signal (like ones from lambda, MAF, MAP etc).
Confused about how to spoof rpm.

Quote:
Its a signal.controlled by voltage.It can be tinkered with as and how much one wants.
If it refers to rpm, who (ie. which sensor) generates it?

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Old 11th November 2010, 21:33   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Ask the one who did it.ask a few tuners in bangalore.they have explained how to fool the ecu and how we get fooled by the increased rev limit.

Its a signal.controlled by voltage.It can be tinkered with as and how much one wants.

Hi

Seems like you are pretty passionate about this thread Understand completely !!


Cheers
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Old 12th November 2010, 08:12   #104
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Ricky Ji i have just voiced my opinion.what has happened is wrong.this is NOT a community post to save those who're in line for the "remap" etc.And i do not wish to take part in any arguments/counter-arguments from the "tuner" or his "posse" , a feature that has been getting very active on tbhp recently.

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Old 12th November 2010, 09:33   #105
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@navpreet318; I agree with you 100%.

My only interest in a remap for my car will be opgrade to the 140bhp map used in Europe/US etc. from the 130bhp map used here. I intend to keep this car for a decade or so, and am quite happy with it. so no boy racer things for me.
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