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Old 17th October 2010, 21:07   #1
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Default Honda Civic Dyno Run no.1 - Stock

Modification season begins

As committed, I'm going to dyno the Civic before and after each modification, to gauge the exact horsepower increase (if at all) from each add-on. We'll start with stage one Mods; performance exhaust coming up this week.

Dyno Run No. 1 : Stock = 117 BHP at the wheels. Honda claims the Civic churns out 130 BHP. So that's an exact 10% transmission loss, as expected. Drivetrain loss & clutch slippage result in a 10 - 20% loss (some tuners average it out to 15%).

To know all about dyno runs: take a look at this thread (All about Dynamometers + DYNO visit with GTO's Vtec!).

Honda Civic Dyno Run no.1 - Stock-civic-stock-dyno-run.jpg

What's next? Dyno numbers after the performance exhaust install this week.

Last edited by GTO : 20th October 2010 at 09:49. Reason: Opening thread
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Old 20th October 2010, 09:49   #2
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I have received requests to open this thread, from members who want to discuss the stock dyno run.

Thread opened. I will create a new thread with the performance exhaust dyno run (where we will discuss the actual benefits of free flows).

Last edited by GTO : 20th October 2010 at 10:06.
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Old 20th October 2010, 10:28   #3
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I request members to please keep this technical thread rather than admiration thread.

@GTO: Please add this to your comment and delete mine. Thanks!
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Old 20th October 2010, 10:51   #4
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Those are impressive figures for a stock Civic. That shows your civic is in a good shape. could you please tell us the modification plans for your civic and what BHP you are targeting at each stage. It would also make sense to list changes done on you car now compared to when it was bought. I am sure you would have changed over to Mobil1 synthetic oil by now.
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Old 20th October 2010, 11:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
rather than admiration thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazikon View Post
Those are impressive figures for a stock Civic.
No admiration or anything impressive here. It's a stock Civic and, as expected, has 10% drivetrain loss. 117 BHP is what every stock Civic will show on the dyno.

Quote:
could you please tell us the modification plans for your civic and what BHP you are targeting at each stage.
Performance exhaust : 4 - 5 BHP. My target is improving the low rpm response, and NOT high rpm performance / BHP. The Civic has enough top-end; what will make things better really is the low end. Plus, unlike the OHC Vtec, I can't upgrade to better headers in the Civic, thus limiting the performance gain from an exhaust.

K&N Typhoon kit : 2 BHP

Piggyback / Remap : 12 - 15 BHP

At the end of this, I should have a 150 BHP naturally-aspirated Civic. Then, it's time to consider forced induction (another 20 - 30 BHP)

Also, I might increase the revv limit to 8,000. No real BHP gain, yet a whole lot of fun.

Quote:
It would also make sense to list changes done on you car now compared to when it was bought.
No changes at all, expect for Mobil 1 synthetic oil + complete service.
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Old 20th October 2010, 11:25   #6
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Common , whats without pics( a video too), the car all strapped at the DYNO run ? . BTW ,good to see the civic done up .Also if you could break up costs for future/knowledge purposes .

What about brakes ,suspension and tires ? .Are these safe to handle 150 bhp ?

Last edited by black12rr : 20th October 2010 at 11:28.
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Old 20th October 2010, 11:30   #7
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If you want to improve low end, won't a performance exhaust do the opposite. From what I know(I may be wrong through), reducing backpressure improves top end, at the cost of low end. If you increase backpressure, you get better low end torque.

anyways, we need to see the graphs and compare to see the exact outcome of a performance exhaust.
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Old 20th October 2010, 11:42   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Plus, unlike the OHC Vtec, I can't upgrade to better headers in the Civic, thus limiting the performance gain from an exhaust.
Any specific reason why civic headers can't be upgraded?

EDIT:

Also, what about iridium sparks and better wires, TB enlargement and port polish? Are these in your future list too?

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 20th October 2010 at 11:45. Reason: see edit
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Old 20th October 2010, 12:20   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Any specific reason why civic headers can't be upgraded?
R18 civics come with headers integrated in the block AFAIK - so no after market headers - but i remember someone did some mods in a civic (its floating somewhere on the forum).

Edit: here it is: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1850830-post1.html

@ GTO - are you planning for a catback exhaust or just a straight pipe with an end can?

Last edited by planet_rocker : 20th October 2010 at 12:24.
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Old 20th October 2010, 12:32   #10
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Just curious, how much does it cost to test a car on a dyno?
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Old 20th October 2010, 13:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Any specific reason why civic headers can't be upgraded?

EDIT:

Also, what about iridium sparks and better wires, TB enlargement and port polish? Are these in your future list too?
OE Honda spark-plug wires and distributors are much more reliable than whatever crap is being sold these days in the name of a stronger spark and higher horsepower. One of the fastest single-cam Honda Civics running on the puny 1.5l D series engine making over 700 wheel horsepower and 8 second quartermiles runs on a stock ignition setup (distributor, spark plug wires). As do most of the 9 and 10 second quartermile Civics.

TB enlargement will improve the top-end at a small cost to the bottom end. But the intake manifold mouth needs to be portmatched to the bigger TB diameter or it'll hurt performance rather than improve it.

As for port polish...lol. If he does do it, the dyno charts will tell a nice story. Ask Jitu or Paras for the details .


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If you want to improve low end, won't a performance exhaust do the opposite. From what I know(I may be wrong through), reducing backpressure improves top end, at the cost of low end. If you increase backpressure, you get better low end torque.
It is exhaust velocity and not backpressure that improves performance. A smaller diameter will give the exhaust gases its peak velocity at lower RPMs. A bigger diameter pipe will give peak velocity at higher RPMs. Backpressure will always cause a loss in performance. Hopefully the next generation of Indian tuners will know their basic concepts instead of propagating myths in the name of knowledge.

Last edited by pranavt : 20th October 2010 at 13:30.
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Old 20th October 2010, 13:29   #12
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This is intresting GTO, will follow this thread closely to see what are the actual gains you get after each modifications, I have restricted myself to do engine modifications as I am not convinced when you compare the money spent and the power gain, only thing I have installed is K & N typhoon kit.

If all goes well here and convicing results I will do the same.

PLease post details with the product & price spent to install each item.

Are you doing entire FFE or bolt on end can only. Brand, price etc.
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Old 20th October 2010, 13:44   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post

It is exhaust velocity and not backpressure that improves performance. A smaller diameter will give the exhaust gases its peak velocity at lower RPMs. A bigger diameter pipe will give peak velocity at higher RPMs. Backpressure will always cause a loss in performance. Hopefully the next generation of Indian tuners will know their basic concepts instead of propagating myths in the name of knowledge.
I could not understand the highlighted part. No matter what the thickness of the pipe, as you increase rpm, i.e. put more fuel into the engine, the exhaust velocity will increase.
So if you take a pipe of thickness 1 unit and measure exhaust gas velocity at 3000rpm and 6000rpm the 6000rpm exhaust gas speed will be more.
If you take the pipe of thickness 10 units, even then same thing will happen.
So for a particular pipe, as you increase rpm, won't exhaust speed increase.

Speaking of backpressure, won't a thinner pipe give you more backpressure at the same rpm as compared to a thicker pipe at the same rpm?
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Old 20th October 2010, 14:01   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I could not understand the highlighted part. No matter what the thickness of the pipe, as you increase rpm, i.e. put more fuel into the engine, the exhaust velocity will increase.
So if you take a pipe of thickness 1 unit and measure exhaust gas velocity at 3000rpm and 6000rpm the 6000rpm exhaust gas speed will be more.
If you take the pipe of thickness 10 units, even then same thing will happen.
So for a particular pipe, as you increase rpm, won't exhaust speed increase.

Speaking of backpressure, won't a thinner pipe give you more backpressure at the same rpm as compared to a thicker pipe at the same rpm?
There is only a finite amount of air that can pass through the pipe at peak velocity (where peak torque is created) before the friction and resistance starts to hurt gas flow. Beyond that limit, you get backpressure which will create pressure in the opposite direction (towards the exhaust valves) and kill the velocity of the exhaust waiting to come out of the cylinder.

I'd give you a straw and pipe example, but there's one available here:
Ideas: Flow Velocity, Flow Capacity, Flow Quality - Team Integra (pg 2)

That article panders to the intake but velocity is equally important on the exhaust side. More good articles on that site. Apart from that, various books from authors like Graham Bell (not the phone guy), etc.
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Old 20th October 2010, 14:13   #15
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GTO ,

The torque band looks flat, yet you say the low end response is wanting. Can you help me understand why and is the low end response a function of the power developed at the that RPM?

Thanks
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